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I don't disagree with the calls for more information. But I'd let them try to address it, rather than some of the discouraging statements made.
I totally respect your stance on this. At the same time, I personally think it's important to let vendors know that it's not okay to try to prey on those on the forum who haven't been in this market before and don't know what should be expected from a vendor. These vendors are not children... I KNOW Dime Racing for example, knows better than to post something like this without any hard numbers. Now that I'm thinking about it, It makes me very skeptical that they DIDN'T post numbers... They've been around, they 100% know that that is the standard and intentionally chose to withhold that information for whatever reason. There's no way they did all the R&D for this intake design WITHOUT testing for air flow / volume and compare it to stock numbers... Where is that information? Just weird if you ask me.
It's such a beautiful piece of equipment... I just hope it was an accidental omission and that they share their R&D numbers and drop the price to something reasonable. I really do wish the best for them and all other vendors. I hope they all learn something from this thread. THAT'S how the aftermarket will develop for this platform, in my opinion.
Thank you all for your questions and comments. We value the opinion of all of our customers as well as potential customers. To address the main concern (price), the approach we took when designing and manufacturing these airboxes was to produce the lightest, highest flowing, and aesthetically pleasing, system. This unfortunately raises the cost dramatically. We do however hear your concerns.
What this means in terms of construction is aerospace prepreg carbon fiber, billet aluminum inserts, molded rubber couplers (not typical silicone), hand layup and all the things that come with using prepreg carbon.
One forum member mentioned seam lines and pressure damaging the box. These boxes in total weigh under 3 pounds and you can easily put 200 pounds of weight on top of them.
What this means in terms of design is, countless hours of testing in a computerized environment and in the real world. The best and most trustworthy results are third party results, not our shop car throwing up a number.
These airboxes are installed on many customer cars, and those customers are seeing very fast 60-130mph times. And one forum member and customer recently ran a 164mph in the half mile. This is the fastest mph for a M177/M178 powered car at the moment.
Much like the cooling upgrade thread they throw up here, there is no before and after or any hard numbers. This, to me and it seems others, is a money grab for a product that stands alone in the market. They seem to be capitalizing on the fact that there are no current competitors.
Other competitors do make cooling system upgrades for the W205 C63. They are just not as comprehensive and complex as what we designed and currently produce. What the competition does, doesn't affect or influence our price.
We have graphed data on our website to show the difference in intake temperatures. We don't want to derail this thread with cooling system information, so we can PM you information on it. Thank you.
What this means in terms of design is, countless hours of testing in a computerized environment and in the real world. The best and most trustworthy results are third party results, not our shop car throwing up a number.
Independent testing should be done to verify a manufacturers' stated claims. If you've spent countless hours of simulation and real world testing, why can't you share that so we have a baseline to compare to?
"30HP or more depending on modifications, and consistent drops in intake air temperatures" 30 HP with upgraded turbos and the entire Dime product catalog? 20 HP with tune? 10 HP with stock tune?
You said this airbox weighs less than 3lbs, so what kind of weight savings are we talking over the stock plastic box?
If you're asking $4,000 for an airbox, it should not be up to a third party to verify the power... it should be proven before you buy it. No one in their right mind is going to throw down that much cash without knowing what they're paying for, unless they're getting it heavily discounted through a sponsorship/promotion.
" The best and most trustworthy results are third party results, not our shop car throwing up a number. "
" customers are seeing very fast 60-130mph times " and the times are?
" And one forum member and customer recently ran a 164mph in the half mile. This is the fastest mph for a M177/M178 powered car at the moment. "
- You make it sound like that's all due to your Air box system! What else is under the hood?
- Its not about you throwing up a number, its about you backing up your claims. Clearly they have no plans on posting any credible information regarding their product.
" The best and most trustworthy results are third party results, not our shop car throwing up a number. "
" customers are seeing very fast 60-130mph times " and the times are?
" And one forum member and customer recently ran a 164mph in the half mile. This is the fastest mph for a M177/M178 powered car at the moment. "
- You make it sound like that's all due to your Air box system! What else is under the hood?
- Its not about you throwing up a number, its about you backing up your claims. Clearly they have no plans on posting any credible information regarding their product.
I'm Out! No Thanks!
This is the exact same issue I had with their cooling "upgrade."
here is the cooling upgrade thread. The claims are extremely similar in both of these threads. Dime tries to sell you a cooling upgrade that is fairly expensive yet cannot show how it actually upgrades the numbers. They also failed to show that there is a true necessity to upgrade the parts. I'm seeing the same exact thing in this thread.
I could see upgraded numbers with an intake system on a system running the upgraded turbochargers. However we aren't shown any data whatsoever.
And the graphed data on your site is rediculous. An intake temp of 140 at the highest graphed point(which is only for a brief moment) is hardly an issue with the car. Let alone one needing a 4k solution.
Complete cop out. Dime you are just making excuses and bs reasons not to share the info. If you want to charge 4K to make some money back then just say that. But don't try to cram some bs down our throats. Throw up your data and put some proof behind your claims.
Its up to the maker of the product to prove the product they're trying to sell is worth buying, even if it is overpriced. Not some other random company or person. Just shows me you are not confident in your own product if you won't share your own numbers. You should also be concerned with where your competitors are pricing their products. It's called the going market price. Good indicator of what people will pay.
This didn't need to be a bash fest but you brought it on yourself. Yes I'm being harsh. No I don't feel bad. Come out with complete product info and the car guys will
leave it be.
Just put out more info on it so we have a full picture.
The air boxes are worth the money if you are pushing the car to the max like I am. I did 10.77 @ 129.9 mph 1/4 mile pass this weekend in my Dime built coupe.
Mods:
CF Air boxes
Divorced Cooling Upgrade
Upgraded turbos (impeller and compressor)
downpipes
Michelin PS 4S tires.
I haven't dyno'd the car yet but I drove this setup for two months with everything minus the CF air boxes, then when i did upgrade the boxes, the high RPM gains were VERY noticeable.
I will dyno with stock boxes and CF Dime boxes eventually and post the results.
Doug
The air boxes are worth the money if you are pushing the car to the max like I am. I did 10.77 @ 129.9 mph 1/4 mile pass this weekend in my Dime built coupe.
Mods:
CF Air boxes
Divorced Cooling Upgrade
Upgraded turbos (impeller and compressor)
downpipes
Michelin PS 4S tires.
I haven't dyno'd the car yet but I drove this setup for two months with everything minus the CF air boxes, then when i did upgrade the boxes, the high RPM gains were VERY noticeable.
I will dyno with stock boxes and CF Dime boxes eventually and post the results.
Doug
hey that's great you're willing to do that for us. Did you run upgraded filters before the box? if you did and you still have those on hand can you do a comparison of the three? I don't think I'm convinced that you won't see similar games between upgraded filters and these boxes. I would question the fact that the upgraded filters would be the gain and not the Box
Air boxes are completely different dimensions than stock, so obviously they are "upgraded" filters -- see first post.
That said, I'm pretty sure that much airflow is only needed if you're stage 3 with upgraded turbos. Stage 1 is probably fine with stock intake, stage 2 probably benefits from upgraded filter. That's basically what it comes down to.
Love it! Thanks for producing but at $4K sorry just don't see the sense in paying for it
2 or 2.5k count me in!
Originally Posted by dimeracing
Thank you all for your questions and comments. We value the opinion of all of our customers as well as potential customers. To address the main concern (price), the approach we took when designing and manufacturing these airboxes was to produce the lightest, highest flowing, and aesthetically pleasing, system. This unfortunately raises the cost dramatically. We do however hear your concerns.
What this means in terms of construction is aerospace prepreg carbon fiber, billet aluminum inserts, molded rubber couplers (not typical silicone), hand layup and all the things that come with using prepreg carbon.
One forum member mentioned seam lines and pressure damaging the box. These boxes in total weigh under 3 pounds and you can easily put 200 pounds of weight on top of them.
What this means in terms of design is, countless hours of testing in a computerized environment and in the real world. The best and most trustworthy results are third party results, not our shop car throwing up a number.
These airboxes are installed on many customer cars, and those customers are seeing very fast 60-130mph times. And one forum member and customer recently ran a 164mph in the half mile. This is the fastest mph for a M177/M178 powered car at the moment.
I've seen the before and after with these air boxes on a tune only car. They add about 25whp. I'm not sure why Dime hasn't posted the graph yet but these air boxes are awesome. The craftsmanship is 10/10 and they do look good. However, yes, $4k is expensive which is why I didn't buy them for my car.
I know that that all the current intakes are already spoken for, but Steve promised to loan me one that I'll get to "try" once they have a spare piece. Maybe I'll pull the trigger then, until then, I can only envy Doug's car.
I've seen the before and after with these air boxes on a tune only car. They add about 25whp. I'm not sure why Dime hasn't posted the graph yet but these air boxes are awesome. The craftsmanship is 10/10 and they do look good. However, yes, $4k is expensive which is why I didn't buy them for my car.
I know that that all the current intakes are already spoken for, but Steve promised to loan me one that I'll get to "try" once they have a spare piece. Maybe I'll pull the trigger then, until then, I can only envy Doug's car.
Tune-only you can definitely see the curves start falling flat on it's face, lacking air. I would expect any larger inlet would allow the turbos to breathe at higher RPMs.
Below is a graph of a C63S with a competitors tune and catless downpipes. We strapped to car to the dyno and did back to back runs.
Modifications on the car were:
ECU Tune
Catless Downpipes
High Flow Air Filters (stock boxes)
We simply swapped the airboxes. You can see where the airboxes really shine. On a stock turbo car, the turbos start to run out of steam past 6,500rpm which is why there is a slow drop in power.
We hope this gives some clarity and thank you all for chiming in.
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