Who's Upgraded their Turbos
#126
Me neither. Just anecdotal info here and there on the forum. From here https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...fferences.html:
As for this...WOAH. This changes *EVERYTHING*. 752 RWHP on pump?! On OEM fuel system? Just DP and tune? If that's legit, that's *AMAZING*. And I'm buying. Except that something here doesn't add up...
Just how conservative is that? Cuz that's 45 RWHP than they made on their Stage I setup, and a whopping 127 RWHP less than what they made on their Stage II setup. At the same boost, on the same tune??
As for this...WOAH. This changes *EVERYTHING*. 752 RWHP on pump?! On OEM fuel system? Just DP and tune? If that's legit, that's *AMAZING*. And I'm buying. Except that something here doesn't add up...
Just how conservative is that? Cuz that's 45 RWHP than they made on their Stage I setup, and a whopping 127 RWHP less than what they made on their Stage II setup. At the same boost, on the same tune??
#127
Yep - I'm in the Northwest tip of Austin - 183/45 area. Let's do it! Considering getting some wider tires first - do the 305 PS4s that you did. As it is, traction is a limiting factor. PM me your cell and we can get the cars together.
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DavesMeanE's (04-19-2018)
#129
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
I don't know where it fell in the spectrum of least to most - Eurocharged said "you are leaving a LOT of power on the table". I didn't ask them to quantify. This is my first MB, and I haven't been around long enough to know how much extra power it can take before some part grenade-ing. Lastly, I had a G37 coupe that I put twin-turbos on, and even at 550whp, it was WAYYYYY too much to put to the ground even with much wider tires/wheels. This is my first RWD car since then, so I figured I could start conservative, learn more, drive some, and turn it up as needed since I am close to Eurocharged - all without needing to add more hardware (which is why I didn't do the Pure Stage 1 turbo).
#130
That was directly off Pures Instagram (no affiliation with them, just saw it and emailed them for the scoop). So the stage 2 changes both the intake and exhaust side of the turbo where as stage 1 just does the intake. Because stage 2 changes the exhaust side it pushes power up much higher in the power band at the sacrifice of slightly lower midrange torque (which I would argue is actually a very good thing on a 2WD car).
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
FYI Eurocharged centers will install Pure turbos and put their tune on it and not charge you the core charge as they just keep your factory ones.
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
FYI Eurocharged centers will install Pure turbos and put their tune on it and not charge you the core charge as they just keep your factory ones.
#131
Stage 1 pure
Hay guys
my cars in at the shop currently getting pure stage 1”s turbos put in.
Just to clarify, as well all know the stage 1 uses the stock turbine but what I didn’t know was that it is back cut.
Ill post the dyno comparison of my between the car with a tune and then with downpipes / turbos / new tune on Friday when I get the car back
Stage 1 turbine backcut
my cars in at the shop currently getting pure stage 1”s turbos put in.
Just to clarify, as well all know the stage 1 uses the stock turbine but what I didn’t know was that it is back cut.
Ill post the dyno comparison of my between the car with a tune and then with downpipes / turbos / new tune on Friday when I get the car back
Stage 1 turbine backcut
#132
Is there anyone out there that can provide a dyno graph showing an over lay of standard turbos vs Pure Stg One vs Pure Stg Two turbos from the same car???
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
#133
Hay guys
my cars in at the shop currently getting pure stage 1”s turbos put in.
Just to clarify, as well all know the stage 1 uses the stock turbine but what I didn’t know was that it is back cut.
Ill post the dyno comparison of my between the car with a tune and then with downpipes / turbos / new tune on Friday when I get the car back
Stage 1 turbine backcut
my cars in at the shop currently getting pure stage 1”s turbos put in.
Just to clarify, as well all know the stage 1 uses the stock turbine but what I didn’t know was that it is back cut.
Ill post the dyno comparison of my between the car with a tune and then with downpipes / turbos / new tune on Friday when I get the car back
Stage 1 turbine backcut
Who is doing the swap and tune for you?
You should see if they can take a heap of photos as I'm sure a lot of us here would be interested in seeing a step by step of the turbos being swapped out.
I would paticularly like to see some detailed detailed photos of what the engine valley looks like with the heat shields removed and how much room there is under the turbo manifolds.
#134
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
Is there anyone out there that can provide a dyno graph showing an over lay of standard turbos vs Pure Stg One vs Pure Stg Two turbos from the same car???
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
#136
Still don’t have the car back unfortunately, the tune needs adjusting as we ran it on the dyno today and it was down on boost from the last tune! Will take the ecu out and adjust on Monday. Until then here are some pics
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blaferty (04-21-2018)
#137
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
That was directly off Pures Instagram (no affiliation with them, just saw it and emailed them for the scoop). So the stage 2 changes both the intake and exhaust side of the turbo where as stage 1 just does the intake. Because stage 2 changes the exhaust side it pushes power up much higher in the power band at the sacrifice of slightly lower midrange torque (which I would argue is actually a very good thing on a 2WD car).
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
Very impressive.
I said it before and I'll say it again; that's a game changer. I wonder if that's Eurocharged-specific, or if my shop can purchase the wheels and install them on my turbos to avoid the core fee too!
FYI Eurocharged centers will install Pure turbos and put their tune on it and not charge you the core charge as they just keep your factory ones.
#138
#139
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
So Pure Turbos now lists their Stage 2 turbos on their website: https://www.pureturbos.com/store/mer...rbos-1145.html. On that page, it says:
"MB C63S M177 PURE Turbos Upgrade
-700whp, Race Gas, No meth, just DP and exhaust!
-752whp, Race Gas, No meth, 22-23psi:
But on Instagram (as was posted earlier in this thread), they listed Stage 2s as making 752whp and 681wtq "Same boost, Same tune, Same mods, Same fuel". So I guess their Stage 1 makes 630whp on pump, and 670whp on race gas?
"MB C63S M177 PURE Turbos Upgrade
-700whp, Race Gas, No meth, just DP and exhaust!
-752whp, Race Gas, No meth, 22-23psi:
But on Instagram (as was posted earlier in this thread), they listed Stage 2s as making 752whp and 681wtq "Same boost, Same tune, Same mods, Same fuel". So I guess their Stage 1 makes 630whp on pump, and 670whp on race gas?
#140
#141
Keen for an update on your retune of your stage ones.
#142
Hay mate, sorry no info yet. We did the data logging on Monday and sent it to the tuner in Europe who resent the new tuning file today. Guys are currently pulling out the ecu to reflash, I hope to have he car back on Thursday.
#143
Dyno run
Sorry for the delay on this, there was an issue with the dyno so there was a backlog of cars and we didn’t get much time on there.
The below graph is comparing between the first tune and then the modified tune.
The below graph is comparing between the first tune and then the modified tune.
#145
Or is this purely turbos, tune & downpipes???
#147
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
I wanna know any other supporting mods you have too, but most importantly:
1) Are these rwhp #s or is it calculating bhp (crank)?
2) Is this on race fuel or pump? Cuz if it’s pump, that’s the most impressive part.
If it’s on pump, were you running a wideband and measuring AFRs? Wondering just how lean you’re running (ie how safe the tune is). From the sound of it, you had someone rewrite a tune remotely based on existing data points and then reflash the ECU with those data points. My suggestion is, you NEED to check and make sure the AFR you’re running at is safe if you wanna keep your motor. That’s the difference between a bench tune (preloaded with margin for safety) vs a custom tune (need to check).
2) At what PSI did you make these numbers? Stock or did you up the boost as well?
#148
Hi guys , just to clarify the graph lists engine HP.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
Last edited by zipzap; 04-26-2018 at 11:17 AM.
#149
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 782
Likes: 105
From: Tampa, FL
'17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe, '18 AMG C63S Convertible, '19 AMG GLS63
Hi guys , just to clarify the graph lists engine HP.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
I have no formal information about this, but based on reverse calculations from Renntech and other tuners and their baseline vs tuned Dyno plots, it seems 13% drivetrain loss is what ppl are experiencing across the board. That would put you at 579rwhp. Much more realistic. So the biggest achievement in the tune would be the tune itself; early power and linear torque curve.
Last edited by FDNewbie; 04-26-2018 at 11:34 AM.
#150
Run it at the track to get a trap speed or do some pulls with GPS-based meters (Dragy, PerformanceBox, etc.) and see what your numbers are. Arguing over dyno numbers/drivetrain loss is a waste of time. Acceleration data tells the whole story.
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TexasBenzBandit (07-31-2019)