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As for this...WOAH. This changes *EVERYTHING*. 752 RWHP on pump?! On OEM fuel system? Just DP and tune? If that's legit, that's *AMAZING*. And I'm buying. Except that something here doesn't add up...
Just how conservative is that? Cuz that's 45 RWHP than they made on their Stage I setup, and a whopping 127 RWHP less than what they made on their Stage II setup. At the same boost, on the same tune??
I don't know where it fell in the spectrum of least to most - Eurocharged said "you are leaving a LOT of power on the table". I didn't ask them to quantify. This is my first MB, and I haven't been around long enough to know how much extra power it can take before some part grenade-ing. Lastly, I had a G37 coupe that I put twin-turbos on, and even at 550whp, it was WAYYYYY too much to put to the ground even with much wider tires/wheels. This is my first RWD car since then, so I figured I could start conservative, learn more, drive some, and turn it up as needed since I am close to Eurocharged - all without needing to add more hardware (which is why I didn't do the Pure Stage 1 turbo).
If you’re in Austin/central Texas I can help. We can even do a roll with my Dinan tune to see the difference (in Mexico, of course).
Yep - I'm in the Northwest tip of Austin - 183/45 area. Let's do it! Considering getting some wider tires first - do the 305 PS4s that you did. As it is, traction is a limiting factor. PM me your cell and we can get the cars together.
'17 AMG S63 Convertible, '17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe
Originally Posted by spawn350
I don't know where it fell in the spectrum of least to most - Eurocharged said "you are leaving a LOT of power on the table". I didn't ask them to quantify. This is my first MB, and I haven't been around long enough to know how much extra power it can take before some part grenade-ing. Lastly, I had a G37 coupe that I put twin-turbos on, and even at 550whp, it was WAYYYYY too much to put to the ground even with much wider tires/wheels. This is my first RWD car since then, so I figured I could start conservative, learn more, drive some, and turn it up as needed since I am close to Eurocharged - all without needing to add more hardware (which is why I didn't do the Pure Stage 1 turbo).
That was directly off Pures Instagram (no affiliation with them, just saw it and emailed them for the scoop). So the stage 2 changes both the intake and exhaust side of the turbo where as stage 1 just does the intake. Because stage 2 changes the exhaust side it pushes power up much higher in the power band at the sacrifice of slightly lower midrange torque (which I would argue is actually a very good thing on a 2WD car).
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
FYI Eurocharged centers will install Pure turbos and put their tune on it and not charge you the core charge as they just keep your factory ones.
Is there anyone out there that can provide a dyno graph showing an over lay of standard turbos vs Pure Stg One vs Pure Stg Two turbos from the same car???
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
Hay guys
my cars in at the shop currently getting pure stage 1”s turbos put in.
Just to clarify, as well all know the stage 1 uses the stock turbine but what I didn’t know was that it is back cut.
Ill post the dyno comparison of my between the car with a tune and then with downpipes / turbos / new tune on Friday when I get the car back
Stage 1 turbine backcut
That's awesome mate, I'm so excited for you.
Who is doing the swap and tune for you?
You should see if they can take a heap of photos as I'm sure a lot of us here would be interested in seeing a step by step of the turbos being swapped out.
I would paticularly like to see some detailed detailed photos of what the engine valley looks like with the heat shields removed and how much room there is under the turbo manifolds.
'17 AMG S63 Convertible, '17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe
Originally Posted by RDO247
Is there anyone out there that can provide a dyno graph showing an over lay of standard turbos vs Pure Stg One vs Pure Stg Two turbos from the same car???
Full power tunes to compare how quick boost comes on between the three turbos, power across the mid range, out right power and torque differences.
Still don’t have the car back unfortunately, the tune needs adjusting as we ran it on the dyno today and it was down on boost from the last tune! Will take the ecu out and adjust on Monday. Until then here are some pics
'17 AMG S63 Convertible, '17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe
Originally Posted by ML63 AMG
That was directly off Pures Instagram (no affiliation with them, just saw it and emailed them for the scoop). So the stage 2 changes both the intake and exhaust side of the turbo where as stage 1 just does the intake. Because stage 2 changes the exhaust side it pushes power up much higher in the power band at the sacrifice of slightly lower midrange torque (which I would argue is actually a very good thing on a 2WD car).
yes they said pump gas and downpipes. No meth or ethanol.
Very impressive.
FYI Eurocharged centers will install Pure turbos and put their tune on it and not charge you the core charge as they just keep your factory ones.
I said it before and I'll say it again; that's a game changer. I wonder if that's Eurocharged-specific, or if my shop can purchase the wheels and install them on my turbos to avoid the core fee too!
Still don’t have the car back unfortunately, the tune needs adjusting as we ran it on the dyno today and it was down on boost from the last tune! Will take the ecu out and adjust on Monday. Until then here are some pics
Any pictures of the heatshields removed from the manifolds????
"MB C63S M177 PURE Turbos Upgrade
-700whp, Race Gas, No meth, just DP and exhaust!
-752whp, Race Gas, No meth, 22-23psi:
But on Instagram (as was posted earlier in this thread), they listed Stage 2s as making 752whp and 681wtq "Same boost, Same tune, Same mods, Same fuel". So I guess their Stage 1 makes 630whp on pump, and 670whp on race gas?
Still don’t have the car back unfortunately, the tune needs adjusting as we ran it on the dyno today and it was down on boost from the last tune! Will take the ecu out and adjust on Monday. Until then here are some pics
Keen for an update on your retune of your stage ones.
Keen for an update on your retune of your stage ones.
Hay mate, sorry no info yet. We did the data logging on Monday and sent it to the tuner in Europe who resent the new tuning file today. Guys are currently pulling out the ecu to reflash, I hope to have he car back on Thursday.
Sorry for the delay on this, there was an issue with the dyno so there was a backlog of cars and we didn’t get much time on there.
The below graph is comparing between the first tune and then the modified tune.
Sorry for the delay on this, there was an issue with the dyno so there was a backlog of cars and we didn’t get much time on there.
The below graph is comparing between the first tune and then the modified tune.
Great Pure Stg One results, what other mods are you running to support 500kw atw?
'17 AMG S63 Convertible, '17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe
Originally Posted by Schulminator
Guessing test 18 was the revised tune 497kw/666whp on stage 1? Wow, that is impressive.
Yes, very impresssive. Pure’s own published numbers (that I posted above) were 670rwhp and 655tq, but on RACE gas.
I wanna know any other supporting mods you have too, but most importantly:
1) Are these rwhp #s or is it calculating bhp (crank)?
2) Is this on race fuel or pump? Cuz if it’s pump, that’s the most impressive part.
If it’s on pump, were you running a wideband and measuring AFRs? Wondering just how lean you’re running (ie how safe the tune is). From the sound of it, you had someone rewrite a tune remotely based on existing data points and then reflash the ECU with those data points. My suggestion is, you NEED to check and make sure the AFR you’re running at is safe if you wanna keep your motor. That’s the difference between a bench tune (preloaded with margin for safety) vs a custom tune (need to check).
2) At what PSI did you make these numbers? Stock or did you up the boost as well?
Hi guys , just to clarify the graph lists engine HP.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
'17 AMG S63 Convertible, '17 AMG C63S Edition 1 Coupe
Originally Posted by zipzap
Hi guys , just to clarify the graph lists engine HP.
Ill find out tomrrow what calculation the dyno used to arrive at this but it can be vehicle specific ( other dynos I’ve used you put in the gear ratio to the program and run at a certain rpm then select neutral and it measures the spin down time and calculates drive train losses from this). But if you use 10% drive train loss it’s the same numbers as what other guys have been getting with the same mods.
This is not a knock on you, but I dunno when this started getting popular, but it’s a bunch of crap: dynos measuring exact whp and then calculating back drivetrain loss to give an estimated crank hp? How does that make sense? Besides, what really matters is how much power you can put *down* to the ground, literally. (Which is also why a lot of us like Dynapack dynos, as they hook up directly to the hubs and measure exact WHP, without any wheel slippage issues, or the danger of straps breaking and flying off of a dyno spinner).
I have no formal information about this, but based on reverse calculations from Renntech and other tuners and their baseline vs tuned Dyno plots, it seems 13% drivetrain loss is what ppl are experiencing across the board. That would put you at 579rwhp. Much more realistic. So the biggest achievement in the tune would be the tune itself; early power and linear torque curve.
Last edited by FDNewbie; Apr 26, 2018 at 11:34 AM.
Run it at the track to get a trap speed or do some pulls with GPS-based meters (Dragy, PerformanceBox, etc.) and see what your numbers are. Arguing over dyno numbers/drivetrain loss is a waste of time. Acceleration data tells the whole story.
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