Looking for advice on tires - Summer vs All Season
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 52
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BMW Z4
Looking for advice on tires - Summer vs All Season
My 2018 C63S sedan came with Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I live in midwest and we get snow maybe 3-5 times in a season. Couple of days ago, I drove it for the fist time in light snow and the car was all over the place. My car is my DD so I am wondering if I should switch to all season tires. Buying a separate set of wheels and winter tires is not something I am looking into at this time.
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 114
From: SoCal
2016 C63S Sedan
My 2018 C63S sedan came with Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I live in midwest and we get snow maybe 3-5 times in a season. Couple of days ago, I drove it for the fist time in light snow and the car was all over the place. My car is my DD so I am wondering if I should switch to all season tires. Buying a separate set of wheels and winter tires is not something I am looking into at this time.
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Likes: 113
2020 GLE 53 AMG
If you live somewhere where it only snows 3-5 times a season, I'd rather drive with best street tires (Michelin PS4S) 360-days a year.
For the other 5-days, I'd either drive my spouse's car or take an Uber/Lyft/Work from home on those 5-days. If the cost of that is too high (or too inconvenient), then I would buy a set of winter wheels/tires. It's only like $2K USD, which is like $500/year for 4-years. For a car that's like $80K-$90K, that's chump change.
When you sell the car later, you'll be able to sell the winter wheels/tires for $1K USD, bringing your cost down dramatically.
Personally, I'd rather have the best tires on my car for the best performance all-year round, but I guess everyone enjoys their car differently.
If you're the type that takes it easy in the car and doesn't really push it at all in the summer or winter, I think you'd be happy with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, I saw other people in your position gave that tire positive reviews.
For the other 5-days, I'd either drive my spouse's car or take an Uber/Lyft/Work from home on those 5-days. If the cost of that is too high (or too inconvenient), then I would buy a set of winter wheels/tires. It's only like $2K USD, which is like $500/year for 4-years. For a car that's like $80K-$90K, that's chump change.
When you sell the car later, you'll be able to sell the winter wheels/tires for $1K USD, bringing your cost down dramatically.
Personally, I'd rather have the best tires on my car for the best performance all-year round, but I guess everyone enjoys their car differently.
If you're the type that takes it easy in the car and doesn't really push it at all in the summer or winter, I think you'd be happy with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, I saw other people in your position gave that tire positive reviews.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 328
Likes: 24
2017 c63s
If you live somewhere where it only snows 3-5 times a season, I'd rather drive with best street tires (Michelin PS4S) 360-days a year.
For the other 5-days, I'd either drive my spouse's car or take an Uber/Lyft/Work from home on those 5-days. If the cost of that is too high (or too inconvenient), then I would buy a set of winter wheels/tires. It's only like $2K USD, which is like $500/year for 4-years. For a car that's like $80K-$90K, that's chump change.
When you sell the car later, you'll be able to sell the winter wheels/tires for $1K USD, bringing your cost down dramatically.
Personally, I'd rather have the best tires on my car for the best performance all-year round, but I guess everyone enjoys their car differently.
If you're the type that takes it easy in the car and doesn't really push it at all in the summer or winter, I think you'd be happy with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, I saw other people in your position gave that tire positive reviews.
For the other 5-days, I'd either drive my spouse's car or take an Uber/Lyft/Work from home on those 5-days. If the cost of that is too high (or too inconvenient), then I would buy a set of winter wheels/tires. It's only like $2K USD, which is like $500/year for 4-years. For a car that's like $80K-$90K, that's chump change.
When you sell the car later, you'll be able to sell the winter wheels/tires for $1K USD, bringing your cost down dramatically.
Personally, I'd rather have the best tires on my car for the best performance all-year round, but I guess everyone enjoys their car differently.
If you're the type that takes it easy in the car and doesn't really push it at all in the summer or winter, I think you'd be happy with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, I saw other people in your position gave that tire positive reviews.
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 113
Likes: 15
none yet
My 2018 C63S sedan came with Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I live in midwest and we get snow maybe 3-5 times in a season. Couple of days ago, I drove it for the fist time in light snow and the car was all over the place. My car is my DD so I am wondering if I should switch to all season tires. Buying a separate set of wheels and winter tires is not something I am looking into at this time.
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 230
Likes: 10
From: Chicago
2016 C63 S, 2011 C63 R.I.P.
My 2018 C63S sedan came with Michelin Pilot Super Sport. I live in midwest and we get snow maybe 3-5 times in a season. Couple of days ago, I drove it for the fist time in light snow and the car was all over the place. My car is my DD so I am wondering if I should switch to all season tires. Buying a separate set of wheels and winter tires is not something I am looking into at this time.
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
1. Is it worth switching to all seasons? How much improvmenet will I see in snow/wet conditions and how much worse they will be in summer? I am looking for people who have swapped their tires and have personal experience with this kind of situation.
Also, I want to take the car on track in summer. I am thinking of putting summer tires back on for the season.
2. Are Michelin PILOT SPORT A/S 3+ tires good?
Thanks
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Super Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Likes: 113
2020 GLE 53 AMG
I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but few (if any) of us have the time to test both tires (new) on the same car under controlled settings.
Tire Rack tested both tires less than 3-months apart in 2017 using the same car and same tire size. This is as close of a "head-to-head" comparison test as you will find!
Slalom Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 4.91s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.05s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 5.35s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.62s
Lap Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 29.78s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 30.36s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 33.05s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 34.63s
Stopping Distance (50 MPH to 0):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 80.2 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 83.2 ft
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 108.8 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 113.9 ft
Average Cornering (G-Force):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 0.92g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.92g
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 0.78g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.74g
As you can see, the biggest differences can be found in Wet conditions where the PS4S enjoys about a 5% advantage in performance.
Links for reference are below:
Michelin PS4S Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=223
Michelin A/S 3+ Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230
Tire Rack tested both tires less than 3-months apart in 2017 using the same car and same tire size. This is as close of a "head-to-head" comparison test as you will find!
Slalom Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 4.91s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.05s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 5.35s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.62s
Lap Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 29.78s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 30.36s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 33.05s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 34.63s
Stopping Distance (50 MPH to 0):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 80.2 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 83.2 ft
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 108.8 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 113.9 ft
Average Cornering (G-Force):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 0.92g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.92g
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 0.78g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.74g
As you can see, the biggest differences can be found in Wet conditions where the PS4S enjoys about a 5% advantage in performance.
Links for reference are below:
Michelin PS4S Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=223
Michelin A/S 3+ Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230
Last edited by KJ; Jan 19, 2018 at 05:15 PM.
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Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 239
Likes: 25
From: Austin, TX
2015 Range Rover Sport Autobiography; 2019 AMG E63S; 2021 Range Rover HSE Westminister
I would say go for the all season. It won’t do very well in snow but if it’s just light snow then it can still get to the road you are fine. The killer with summer tires is when it gets really cold they turn into ice packs that just slide everywhere. Another advantage of the all season is ride quality is immediately oticeably better. All that said you are barely giving up anything to the summer tires. Am talking about real world not some track or slalom test. Real driving when you live with the car everyday. Huge advantage goes to the A/S 3+. I am very happy with mine.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 738
Likes: 212
/////PRO
My suggestion if you actually care about a great performing handling car that you can push if/when wanted......stick with the Pilot Suoer Sport, as they along with the new version of them (Pilot Sport 4s) are the best performance high tread wear street tires you can have. But a set of all season tires (or better yet, winter tires) to fit the stock wheels. Have those tires mounted and balanced once winter arrives, store the PSS tires, and swap the PSS tires back on in spring. This is the best solution.
Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 213
Likes: 47
2018 C63S Sedan
I saw an Engineering Explained Youtube video that showed how well dedicated summer tires work in the cold and wet.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Likes: 113
2020 GLE 53 AMG
The summer tires blew the winter tires away!
Also, the Tire Rack performance data shows the summer tires beat the All-Season's in dry AND wet performance for track times, handling and stopping.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
BMW Z4
I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but few (if any) of us have the time to test both tires (new) on the same car under controlled settings.
Tire Rack tested both tires less than 3-months apart in 2017 using the same car and same tire size. This is as close of a "head-to-head" comparison test as you will find!
Slalom Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 4.91s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.05s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 5.35s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.62s
Lap Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 29.78s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 30.36s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 33.05s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 34.63s
Stopping Distance (50 MPH to 0):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 80.2 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 83.2 ft
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 108.8 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 113.9 ft
Average Cornering (G-Force):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 0.92g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.92g
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 0.78g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.74g
As you can see, the biggest differences can be found in Wet conditions where the PS4S enjoys about a 5% advantage in performance.
Links for reference are below:
Michelin PS4S Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=223
Michelin A/S 3+ Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230
Tire Rack tested both tires less than 3-months apart in 2017 using the same car and same tire size. This is as close of a "head-to-head" comparison test as you will find!
Slalom Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 4.91s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.05s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 5.35s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 5.62s
Lap Time:
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 29.78s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 30.36s
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 33.05s
Michelin A/S 3+ = 34.63s
Stopping Distance (50 MPH to 0):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 80.2 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 83.2 ft
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 108.8 ft
Michelin A/S 3+ = 113.9 ft
Average Cornering (G-Force):
Dry
Michelin PS4S = 0.92g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.92g
Wet
Michelin PS4S = 0.78g
Michelin A/S 3+ = 0.74g
As you can see, the biggest differences can be found in Wet conditions where the PS4S enjoys about a 5% advantage in performance.
Links for reference are below:
Michelin PS4S Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=223
Michelin A/S 3+ Test:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230
Thanks everyone for the input. I am little confused after reading above posts. If summer tires are better than all-seasons in both dry and wet conditions than what is the point of all-season tires? Why are most cars on all season tires than? Longer life span?
I have decided to stick with with summer tires for now. Its almost February and weather is already warming up here.I don't expect much snow in next couple of months. Come next winter, I will switch to winters/all-season.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Likes: 113
2020 GLE 53 AMG
All-Seasons are not as good for wet/dry but passable for snow.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 643
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
This is true assuming one major detail; summer temperatures.
Do the same Tire Rack test at sub-50 degree F temperatures, and I'm sure the results will be different. Not opposite, but very different.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 601
Likes: 113
2020 GLE 53 AMG
Fast forward to 6:50 to see the chart that shows the winter tires get owned in dry conditions.
Since all-seasons are in between summer and winter tires, the all-seasons would probably lose out as well, but by a lesser margin.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 643
Likes: 92
From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
The video below compares Summer tires to Winter tires (60-0 performance) in 26 degree weather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJsV2ORMsms
Fast forward to 6:50 to see the chart that shows the winter tires get owned in dry conditions.
Since all-seasons are in between summer and winter tires, the all-seasons would probably lose out as well, but by a lesser margin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJsV2ORMsms
Fast forward to 6:50 to see the chart that shows the winter tires get owned in dry conditions.
Since all-seasons are in between summer and winter tires, the all-seasons would probably lose out as well, but by a lesser margin.
Also, his explanation of Glass Transition Temp, while good for the layman, oversimplifies how that functions and really gives no good explanation of how grip changes as temperature decreases and how this differs with different compounds. You don't go from grip to no grip as you cross that temperature; grip degrades as temperature decreases with any rubber, and different rubber compounds react differently. Your tire rubber's Tg is basically when the rubber is completely slick and unusable, not when grip starts to degrade. What matters more is how it reacts before this point compared to other rubber compounds.
And this doesn't even begin to explain how the tires react on ice and snow. The entire point of a winter and/or all-season tire is how it reacts in all the driving conditions you'll encounter during the cold season(s), not just clear roads. It's like saying a slick tire is better than a 'summer' tire in the warm months because it stops better on a dry road. We all know how that'd go hitting standing water at highway speeds....
