Noob tuning question - MBWorld.org Forums

Notices
C63/C63S AMG
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Noob tuning question

 
Old 01-21-2019, 03:23 PM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Noob tuning question

I’m not really into tuning my cars since I more care about reliability and maintaining manufacturer’s warranties, but I saw a site that was saying a “stage 1” tune entails nothing more than reprogramming the car in software to produce almost 100hp more on a w205 c63s...?!?! Is this really possible without adding parts or modifying the vehicle in any way? For those who have done it, how’s the short and long-term reliability and does it void any warranties or create any other problems in any other way? Thanks in advance.
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 03:57 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
benzbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 478
Thanked 119 Times in 85 Posts
2018 GTR - 2018 C 63S
I've always steered clear and have been apprehensive of tunes. Especially on a new car right out of the oven. Give it some time first, and get use to the car as it was intended from the factory. If you need more - then by all means. I've heard so many conflicting stories on warranty, which is another reason I don't want to do it. You are going to get as many split opinions on this subject and which tuner to use, as you did on performance seats vs. the non. At the end of the day - it's all preference with proper research.
benzbell is online now  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:17 PM
  #3  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by benzbell View Post
I've always steered clear and have been apprehensive of tunes. Especially on a new car right out of the oven. Give it some time first, and get use to the car as it was intended from the factory. If you need more - then by all means. I've heard so many conflicting stories on warranty, which is another reason I don't want to do it. You are going to get as many split opinions on this subject and which tuner to use, as you did on performance seats vs. the non. At the end of the day - it's all preference with proper research.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly, in general. It's just that one tuner in particular mentions that, after their reprogramming is done, there is no way for Mercedes/Dealership to determine if any modifications have been made...100HP increase with no additional modifications within a quick 1-hour visit? Sounds too good to be true...?

All this would only be considered well after the break-in period, of course, if at all...
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:36 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
benzbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 478
Thanked 119 Times in 85 Posts
2018 GTR - 2018 C 63S
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
It's just that one tuner in particular mentions that, after their reprogramming is done, there is no way for Mercedes/Dealership to determine if any modifications have been made...100HP increase with no additional modifications within a quick 1-hour visit? Sounds too good to be true...?
One could definitely be left in the lurch on that statement further down the road.
benzbell is online now  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:49 PM
  #5  
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 975
Thanked 103 Times in 81 Posts
'17 AMG C63S Coupe
It’s not too good to be true. Turbochargers make it extremely easy to add power with just a software tune. Add the fact that we’re working with a 4 liter V8, and you have a recipe for huge gains on stage 1 only.

FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.

Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
AlexZTuned is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:55 PM
  #6  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by AlexZTuned View Post
It’s not too good to be true. Turbochargers make it extremely easy to add power with just a software tune. Add the fact that we’re working with a 4 liter V8, and you have a recipe for huge gains on stage 1 only.

FYI - a lot of tuners quote “over 100 hp” increase, but many tuners will take Mercedes stock 503 HP figure and subtract that from the stage 1 power level (almost always over 600 hp). But the truth is, the C63S makes closer to 530ish HP stock, so realistically you’re only seeing about a 70-85 HP increase with a tune only.

Still very impressive gains nonetheless! It’s a night and day difference, you can feel that added torque and HP everywhere.
This is exactly what I've heard too...did you tune your C63S? Did you wait to do it or do it right after break-in?

Can you comment on reliability, warranty conflicts, and who you used?

Was it really as simple as taking a computer to the car for a few minutes and that's it?
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:04 PM
  #7  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
This is exactly what I've heard too...did you tune your C63S? Did you wait to do it or do it right after break-in?

Can you comment on reliability, warranty conflicts, and who you used?

Was it really as simple as taking a computer to the car for a few minutes and that's it?
More importantly than the tune are the tires.. you can't fully use the power it already has stock until you get better tires. Then get a tune if you feel you need more power.. That won't void your warranty and make you a lot quicker.. I always think about usable power.. If you have 610hp and can't use it because you can't hook up then what good is it.

And yes a ecu flash tune takes about an hour to 90 mins to install.. Dinan piggyback takes 3-4hrs to hook up to sensors to trick the ecu instead of rewriting part of it... But the Dinan piggyback comes with a matching factory warranty the ecu flashes do not. I have had a few Dinan ecu flashes on bmw's with no issues but they didn't crack the ecu's code to flash mercs so they just came out with the piggyback for now.

Personally I plan on keeping this car awhile so I am just going to swap out the tires for Michelin ps4s which seem to have the best rating in both dry and wet weather. If I need more power after then I will think about a tune.
purplewidow is online now  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:21 PM
  #8  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by purplewidow View Post
More importantly than the tune are the tires.. you can't fully use the power it already has stock until you get better tires. Then get a tune if you feel you need more power.. That won't void your warranty and make you a lot quicker.. I always think about usable power.. If you have 610hp and can't use it because you can't hook up then what good is it.

And yes a ecu flash tune takes about an hour to 90 mins to install.. Dinan piggyback takes 3-4hrs to hook up to sensors to trick the ecu instead of rewriting part of it... But the Dinan piggyback comes with a matching factory warranty the ecu flashes do not. I have had a few Dinan ecu flashes on bmw's with no issues but they didn't crack the ecu's code to flash mercs so they just came out with the piggyback for now.

Personally I plan on keeping this car awhile so I am just going to swap out the tires for Michelin ps4s which seem to have the best rating in both dry and wet weather. If I need more power after then I will think about a tune.
I don't think i'll ever be using the power for trying to spin the tires off the line, nor taking my car on a track so although better tires are always useful, my thinking is just have better low-end grunt, get up to speed quicker, and maybe the spirited green-light sprint from time to time.

I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?

Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:32 PM
  #9  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
I don't think i'll ever be using the power for trying to spin the tires off the line, nor taking my car on a track so although better tires are always useful, my thinking is just have better low-end grunt, get up to speed quicker, and maybe the spirited green-light sprint from time to time.

I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?

Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
that’s why you need better tires.. you want to reduce the spin and gain traction.. you don’t buy better tires to spin them more you buy better tires to get better grip
purplewidow is online now  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:41 PM
  #10  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by purplewidow View Post


that’s why you need better tires.. you want to reduce the spin and gain traction.. you don’t buy better tires to spin them more you buy better tires to get better grip
I'm not disagreeing with you that better tires will help, I'm just saying I will almost never run into a situation where I will break the tires loose...either way, I'm sure I will naturally switch to PSSs when the first set wears out, if I don't end up switching earlier.

That said, for anyone who has done these kinds of tunes, I'm very curious how it works on our vehicles, etc. Thanks
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:59 PM
  #11  
Xec
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 88
Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts
2019 C63S Sedan
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you that better tires will help, I'm just saying I will almost never run into a situation where I will break the tires loose...either way, I'm sure I will naturally switch to PSSs when the first set wears out, if I don't end up switching earlier.
The car struggles off the line with no tune as it is. What makes you think you'll never spin with 600hp? Without proper tires, you'll be slower than before the tune.
Xec is online now  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:16 PM
  #12  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
RDOCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,203
Thanked 94 Times in 89 Posts
2016 C63S Sedan
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
Oh I agree wholeheartedly, in general. It's just that one tuner in particular mentions that, after their reprogramming is done, there is no way for Mercedes/Dealership to determine if any modifications have been made...100HP increase with no additional modifications within a quick 1-hour visit? Sounds too good to be true...?

All this would only be considered well after the break-in period, of course, if at all...
It is more like 65/70 HP increase with a stage 1 tune from most tuners. A C63S has about 535 HP factory stock as they underrate it some.
When the tuner is done you get 600/610 flywheel Hp.
RDOCA is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RDOCA For This Useful Post:
mrguitar (01-22-2019)
Old 01-21-2019, 09:18 PM
  #13  
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 975
Thanked 103 Times in 81 Posts
'17 AMG C63S Coupe
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
I don't think i'll ever be using the power for trying to spin the tires off the line, nor taking my car on a track so although better tires are always useful, my thinking is just have better low-end grunt, get up to speed quicker, and maybe the spirited green-light sprint from time to time.

I'm curious regarding an "ecu flash tune" whether there is actually *any* risk of voiding the warranty? Like what is the risk, if at all? Is there a chance the tuner can brick the car or make it so that I have to take it into the dealer to get fixed for any reason? Is this an idiot-proof process?

Probably not interested in doing anything at the onset, but just want to learn a bit in the process...
The thing is, you'll be roasting the stock tires by accident. Just tipping into the throttle at 2500-3000 rpm at low speeds you will light up the tires, the tune adds 150+ ft-lbs torque down low in the RPMs. I have to agree with what was said, if you tune this car, larger tires are not optional. You have to upgrade to something larger (I have 305 PS4S's in the rear) or you'll be spinning your tires at 60+mph.

I have the Dinan tune (piggyback) and love it. Dinan is the only tuner that offers a true factory-matching warranty, and they've been around longer than almost any other tuner (1979!). If something happens with your car as a result of their tune and Mercedes doesn't cover it, they'll cover it for you. To be honest, a Stage 1 tune is very safe and reliable for this engine - it's not being stressed, so I wouldn't worry much about anything catastrophic happening - it's just nice to have the peace of mind in case anything happens.

I'm actually putting my Dinan tune up for sale if you're interested - I'm installing bigger turbos and need to go the custom tune route.
AlexZTuned is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:30 PM
  #14  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
2016 c63s
If you're not breaking loose on the stock tires, then you're not coming even close to using the stock 503 hp.

Upgrade to better tires like others said & stomp the pedal to the floor for your speed wants.

If that's not enough, then consider stage 1 tune aka ecu tune.

Option 1: Piggyback ( the dianian from above). External hardware that hooks up and tricks the cars ecu to gain performance. Usaully less power gain then ecu tune but untraceable for warranty purposes (just take it off before you give your car to the dealer)

Option 2: getting your ecu flashed. Most power gain, but only buy from a big name tuner (eurocharged, weistic, brabus, renntech, to name a few theres more good options). I wouldn't trust a local tuner with something as complex as our car. Why? Because off chance major motor failure happens, the dealer will see something was changed if they dig deep enough. Theres no 100% way to hide an ecu tune, just depends on how deep the dealer digs.

Final thoughts, in either method your car will be faster & more responsive, but I also subscribe to use your power or loose it 😂
DaRuzzian is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DaRuzzian For This Useful Post:
mrguitar (01-22-2019)
Old 01-22-2019, 01:26 AM
  #15  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
2018 C63 AMG
I have a Dinan tuner for sale...installed by a Dinan pro shop uninstalled by Dinan pro shop.
rekrul is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 11:17 AM
  #16  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
2016 C63S
I just ordered a Eurocharged ECU tune. Will let you know how it goes.

GhostPanda4 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GhostPanda4 For This Useful Post:
mrguitar (01-22-2019)
Old 01-22-2019, 11:58 AM
  #17  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 19
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
C63
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
Behind The Bibs is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 06:57 PM
  #18  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by AlexZTuned View Post
The thing is, you'll be roasting the stock tires by accident. Just tipping into the throttle at 2500-3000 rpm at low speeds you will light up the tires, the tune adds 150+ ft-lbs torque down low in the RPMs. I have to agree with what was said, if you tune this car, larger tires are not optional. You have to upgrade to something larger (I have 305 PS4S's in the rear) or you'll be spinning your tires at 60+mph.

I have the Dinan tune (piggyback) and love it. Dinan is the only tuner that offers a true factory-matching warranty, and they've been around longer than almost any other tuner (1979!). If something happens with your car as a result of their tune and Mercedes doesn't cover it, they'll cover it for you. To be honest, a Stage 1 tune is very safe and reliable for this engine - it's not being stressed, so I wouldn't worry much about anything catastrophic happening - it's just nice to have the peace of mind in case anything happens.

I'm actually putting my Dinan tune up for sale if you're interested - I'm installing bigger turbos and need to go the custom tune route.
Forgive my ignorance, how does one "put up a tune for sale?" Isn't this process of tuning, someone at a shop hooking up a computer to your car and after reprogramming, and that's it? In other words, there is no physical device involved at all? How is this re-sold?
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:01 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
2018 C63 AMG
Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
Forgive my ignorance, how does one "put up a tune for sale?" Isn't this process of tuning, someone at a shop hooking up a computer to your car and after reprogramming, and that's it? In other words, there is no physical device involved at all? How is this re-sold?
Its a chip plug in and easily removable.
rekrul is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:06 PM
  #20  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
c63s
Originally Posted by Behind The Bibs View Post
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
The company that I came across that apparently has a strong reputation in my area is a company called "HD Tuning." Here is an excerpt from their site regarding traceability...

As ECU Tuners, our job is to read out the stock code, modify it to make safe power, and program it back into the computer using factory level OEM tuning tools with correct checksums so no one, including the dealerships will be able to tell there has been any modification.
Is this just blowing hot air or any truth to this?
mrguitar is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 12:53 AM
  #21  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 92
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
2019 C63S Coupe - Graphite Grey Magno
Originally Posted by Behind The Bibs View Post
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
They're not going to look or care until a warranty claim is filed for an engine or turbo failure. If the nature of the failure suggests the possibility of a tune, then they MAY look. I flashed my old TT RS under warranty and the service manager who I worked with directly knew and said exactly that.
The obvious benefit of this motor is that it designed for and capable of much bigger numbers so the ceiling is high and the risk of a failure caused by the tune is low.

Originally Posted by mrguitar View Post
Forgive my ignorance, how does one "put up a tune for sale?" Isn't this process of tuning, someone at a shop hooking up a computer to your car and after reprogramming, and that's it? In other words, there is no physical device involved at all? How is this re-sold?
The Dinan is a piggyback computer and wiring harness that essentially sits between the ECU and the turbo. It’s preprogrammed with its “map”. It sends a signal to the ECU that the boost pressure is below target which causes the ECU to increase it. That throws ignition timing and air/fuel mixtures out of whack which the Dinan also corrects almost instantly. It’s impressive tech (to me, at least). Of course, it can be uninstalled and sold. It can also be left in and set to factory settings before taking it to the shop. Doubtful they’d notice it unless they were actually working on the motor. And as mentioned Dinah honors the warranty even if MB won’t.

I’ve already bought one for my ‘19s coupe, but will burn through the stock tires first (which wont apparently take that long), change to PS4s and put 265s on the front and 305s on back and install it then. Looking forward to that day.
CrashTX is offline  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:12 AM
  #22  
Super Member
 
raudiace4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 543
Thanked 69 Times in 60 Posts
2017 C63S coupe
A proper ECU tune will always be better than some ****ty piggy back. Dinan = overpriced garbage.
raudiace4 is offline  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:25 PM
  #23  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by raudiace4 View Post
A proper ECU tune will always be better than some ****ty piggy back. Dinan = overpriced garbage.
True in terms of power gains but you are paying for the warranty.. I know a guy with an engine they covered and replaced on an m5. BMW wouldn't cover it because Dinan's software was running as well as a supercharger. It was a 13k repair. What tuner companies do you know that will replace an engine or turbo's or any stock part on a car because it failed with their equipment or software running? They ecu tune bmw's. They have been around for decades primarily for bmw's.. I have an ecu tune from them on my 335 and over 90k miles no issues. Bmw Performance had smaller gains and had a higher price for their tune for my car and everyone said the throttle response, power, and gear shifts were MUCH smoother with Dinan. Definitely night and day different on mine over stock can't even use more power as I would need to swap out the diff.. At the end of the day you are paying for modest gains and the warranty. Other tuners aren't giving you a warranty to replace parts costing thousands of dollars and have a team dedicated to dealerships handing out checks for repairs.
purplewidow is online now  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:58 PM
  #24  
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 975
Thanked 103 Times in 81 Posts
'17 AMG C63S Coupe
Originally Posted by raudiace4 View Post
A proper ECU tune will always be better than some ****ty piggy back. Dinan = overpriced garbage.
I got mine for like $1700 or so shipped brand new, that's not exactly overpriced garbage when you get a factory matching warranty on the drivetrain.

It's also not slow. I ran 11.5 @ 127 MPH on pump gas and full weight. I think it's one of the best piggyback options available for this platform.

You want to hear about overpriced garbage? Take a look at how much Brabus charges for their piggyback tune...
AlexZTuned is offline  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:27 AM
  #25  
BMS
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Simi Valley, California
Posts: 286
Thanked 42 Times in 21 Posts
2018 C63 Sedan
Originally Posted by Behind The Bibs View Post
Surely any remap, piggy back or ecu flash is tracaable, even if it is removed there will peak torque, boost logged. Dealers dont care as long as they are getting paid for any warranty so why would they look. Good luck getting a blown turbo replaced by MB or indeed any tuner after a remap. Dont forget to declare the remap when you sell hahahahaha
Incorrect. A properly designed piggyback like the JB4 is not detectable because the vehicle is never aware it's making more than the factory boost or fueling levels. With a flash map the ECU and many other modules on the vehicle observe & record true torque/power so they are easily detected even if flashing back to stock.
BMS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Noob tuning question


Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: