zibby43

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...e-know-so-far/

Moers confirmed that AMG is going hybrid, something we've heard is coming: "This is our intention, this is our strategy, and this is what we're working on." The next C- and S-Class AMG models will be plug-in hybrids, though don't go looking for a huge EV range from powertrains we're assured will be engineered differently from non-AMG Mercedes plug-ins.

Tuxdude

I guess you meant this link instead? https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...e-know-so-far/

I would bet we would see some form of Electric Assist (aka Mild-Hybrid) like the 53 models. That in combination with the Plug-in hybrid seems interesting but would be curious to see how they execute it, especially for AMG 63 models.

On a related note, Daimler development chief Markus Schaefer has said to German magazine Auto Motor und Sport that they are not developing any new internal combustion engines. Granted, the current portfolio of Mercedes (and AMG) engines will provide runway for few years to come. Or another way to interpret this would be that they do not develop pure-gasoline powered engines anymore, and focus on some form of hybrid or pure EV powertrains.

I'm just worried about the complexity this adds. Given the sensor overload these days leading to reliability issues, noisy CELs, etc., I am not sure how much more it will affect reliability.

zibby43

Yes, thank you. I have no idea how I ended up with that link lol. I edited the OP.

100% agreed on the complexity component.

pushemekuratz

Does this mean you cant drive the next gen C63 without plugging it in a wall?

Peter Liu

Heard next gen c63 will be up to 540hp, if that's with hybrid powertrain, sadly it would barely to be a v8 engine.

Star4life

its possible the c43 becomes a hybrid 4 cylinder and the c63 becomes a hybrid 8 cylinder. they are just trying to lower their average fleet economy to meet the standards it doesnt necessarily mean no v8s. but the only question is, if the w206 goes AWD in the 63, can they fit a v8, hybrid power train and awd under the hood. they may restrict to a v6/I6 for space alone. but that doesnt mean it will sound bad. take a 911 gt3 for example. 6 cylinder but its one of the best sounds ever! if they do drop to a 6 lets hope it revs high.

munis

Topgear already confirmed w206 C63 would be a V8 only. V8 only. C43 would be discontinued. C53 would get a hybrid inline six. It is all downhill from there on.

AMGC

Believe I am one of very few people to see the W206 engine, let alone glowing red hot at 9000 rpm. Was snuck inside the engine testing facility which is very heavily watched. Let’s just say it is not what we have become used to. Neat that the engine testing provides free heat for the surrounding 3 towns.

superswiss

Well, do tell. What you might have seen was the AMG One engine. We already know that that one is a version of the 1.6l V6 Formula One engine made more reliable for the street by lowering the redline to a more reasonable ~9000 rpm. In the AMG One it's combined with 4 electric motors. I've speculated before that the next C63 might see a variant of that. I'll be all in if that's the case. I have my doubts that the next C63 will get a hybrid V8 setup. The weight of all the added components alone would be a big issue. The GT73 has been announced and we know it'll get a V8 hybrid setup, but that's a bigger and heavier car already. To keep the V8 and add hybrid to it in the C63 would mean they'll have to lose a lot of weight elsewhere. Just doesn't add up. But a smaller displacement high revving V6 with a hybrid powertrain would probably work to come in at a reasonable weight. Time will tell.

AMGC

I will just say; yes. I will be back in Germany soon and don’t want to burn that particular bridge lol

E55 KEV

For a hybrid you don't have to. If you want to get some electrified mileage you charge it. You can drive a hybrid all you want without charging. "Plugging it in a wall" is optional.

Uga Uga

???

pushemekuratz

If it actually goes hybrid it makes sense, it would produce 420 from the engine plus up to 150 from the electric system, more than enough power...

Sources however are all over the place regarding engine configuration. I dont think anyone really knows at this point.

Edit: Well this is depressing, autocar just reported the same info, looks like current gen prices just went up. Get the V8 while you still can.

superswiss

Yeah, that's pretty much very it's going. Early rumors about this seem to come true. After the recent announcement by Daimler that they are stopping all development of new internal combustion engines, this has now a lot more credibility. The 2.0 4 banger is the only other engine that is built by hand at AMG in Affalterbach, outside the specialty motorsport engines and the engines for Aston Martin etc. Daimler has said that all future powertrains will either be fully electric or an electrified version of one of the existing engines. I've said from the beginning that a V8 hyprid power plant would be too heavy for the C63. They are pretty much forced to go with a smaller engine to offset the weight of all the added components. There's pretty much no way the next C63 will be a V8 hybrid. The only other possible candidate could be a modified version of the AMG One V6 engine.

Tuxdude

Saw this on autocar's page:

I'm not sure how trustworthy their rumors are when they cannot even get today's facts correctly. However, if they do go with a 4-cylinder hybrid, I agree that it will significantly increase the used car value of W205 C63 vehicles. I rather expect they would go with the Inline-6 hybrid instead.

pushemekuratz

I agree the V8 hybrid rumors never made much sense, it would push too much power and too much weight. I was kinda hoping the initial Top Gear rumors were true and we would simply get a V8 and AWD without electric assist.

No doubt these are still only rumors but its a strange time for these to come out considering the recent rumors all pointed to the another generation of the V8. I think we will either see this 4 cylinder or the v8 in the 63 model because those are the only two hand built AMG engines.

Also this 4 cylinder is a brand new hand built engine and it wouldn't make much sense to only use it in the entry level models which is why im afraid these 4 cylinder hybrids rumors are true...

Uga Uga

AMGC’s words are coming true.

NYCSoiL

Pretty much this

Peter Liu

4 cylinder hybrid，so new c63 is a Prius

JohnEnglish

Ugh, this is depressing. The V8 was the whole reason why I wanted a C63 vs a RS5 or M3/4.

raudiace4

W206 will keep the 4.0ttV8, but add the AWD with RWD drift mode from the E63.

nobbyv

Source?

E55 KEV

Nothing wrong with wishful thinking but may not happen if this adds weight and is less fuel efficient.

mrguitar

The very notion of a 4-cylinder engine going into the next generation C63 makes me feel as if I'm chopping a limb off; I'm sure others feel the same way. That said, we all know the technology is going to improve with every car and every generation. The W206 will have more HP and more Torque, faster 0-60 times, better handling around the track, maybe have a higher top speed, have better creature comforts/technology, have better fuel mileage, and be superior to our cars (on paper) in every way. One advertisement, or a car review, is going to change all the naysayers' minds, mark my words. I wasn't on these forums way back when the W204 M156 was announced to go to the M177, but I'M POSITIVE everyone was in an uproar because of the smaller engine and turbo-charging. I can hear it now, "How DARE AMG move away from naturally aspirated engines in favor of turbo charging! Hrmph! I'll never buy another AMG..." No, we all fell in love with this engine and it's capabilities. It's going to be the same thing with the next generation.

THAT SAID...

If they truly go away from the M177 for a 4-banger, it is definitely more of a hurdle in my mind how cutting the displacement in half can make the W206 comparable to the W205, performance-wise. At least going from the M156 to the M177, it was still a V8 the entire time. So, this news definitely has a different "feel" to it. They better tout the hybrid engine output like crazy or it will definitely feel like the next car will be a disappointment before it even gets out of the gates. Even a small, incremental HP/Torque improvement will be a failure in my mind. The W206 C63s will need to have 600HP and 600 Torque to make it attractive, if you ask me...

Also--and I think there will be no solution to this--the exhaust sounds are just going to SUCK. If it sucks now, it's going to suck even worse than ever before. How can get you get the same deep rumble out of a 4-cylinder? Digital sound will be the only solution. In any case, I know AMG is tasked with making cars quieter and quieter, so this may not be as much of a shock, but the very notion of the AMG sound all but dying brings a tear to my eye (ear). To me, this is the biggest disappointment of all regarding the engine news.

Yeah, this news will definitely create a little bump for the W205 second market in the years to come...I may just end up buying out my lease, haha. We'll see.

RIP M177 W205...

superswiss

I think what's bothering me more is that the C43 is rumored to get a detuned version of the C63 powertrain. That's gonna make them "feel" very similar just with more or less power. That's what's happened with the current generation S5 and RS5 over at Audi, and really put the RS5 in question for me. It's just not that different from the S5 for the money Audi wants for it. The C63 currently is very different from the C43. We'll have to see what parts they make exclusive to the C63. For example with Audi both the S5 and RS5 can be had with the torque vectoring rear differential, which I always thought should be exclusive to the RS5 to separate it more clearly.