Next Gen 550bhp C63 will do 0-60 in 3.5s
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2019 C63CS
AMG does not have a 6-cylinder engine. The M256 is not an AMG engine. They only have the M139 besides the V8s. Daimler has made a decision last year to stop all new combustion engine developments, so AMG could not go ahead and develop a 6 cylinder true AMG engine hand built at the factory in Affalterbach. The M139 is the only other option. Daimler also has just recently announced to move combustion engine production to China. I'm guessing the AMG engines will continue to be built in Affalterbach under the One Man One Engine principal, but the rest is being handed to Geely in China after they bought a $9 billion stake in Daimler.
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 21, 2021 at 08:52 PM.
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No more MB:(
AMG does not have a 6-cylinder engine. The M256 is not an AMG engine. They only have the M139 besides the V8s. Daimler has made a decision last year to stop all new combustion engine developments, so AMG could not go ahead and develop a 6 cylinder true AMG engine hand built at the factory in Affalterbach. The M139 is the only other option. Daimler also has just recently announced to move combustion engine production to China. I'm guessing the AMG engines will continue to be built in Affalterbach under the One Men One Engine principal, but the rest is being handed to Geely in China after they bought a $9 billion stake in Daimler.
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AMG does not have a 6-cylinder engine. The M256 is not an AMG engine. They only have the M139 besides the V8s. Daimler has made a decision last year to stop all new combustion engine developments, so AMG could not go ahead and develop a 6 cylinder true AMG engine hand built at the factory in Affalterbach. The M139 is the only other option. Daimler also has just recently announced to move combustion engine production to China. I'm guessing the AMG engines will continue to be built in Affalterbach under the One Man One Engine principal, but the rest is being handed to Geely in China after they bought a $9 billion stake in Daimler.
I would personally not buy an AMG C-Class or other models with a 4-cylinder, just not my cup of tea. The 4-cylinder works fine in my wife's GLC, but in a performance/sports sedan, no thank you, the main reason the C63 (W205) would entice me (as well as many other buyers) is the V8 and its character, exhaust, etc. AMG is pretty much synonymous with V8. Add on top of that the rumored 4500lbs, that's a porker for compact sedan. Of course I'll withold judgement till the car is a reality, but like the new M3, the C63 is not exciting me, and to think, they had the perfect opportunity to one up BMW with the M3/4's new controversial face.
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2021 Mercedes C63s AMG Coupe
Thanks for the clarification. Regarding the M256, I guess I was mainly saying they could go the BMW route of taking mainstream engines and modifying them (N55 to S55, B58 to S58, etc.) but I guess that is not in the cards/something that AMG does.
I would personally not buy an AMG C-Class or other models with a 4-cylinder, just not my cup of tea. The 4-cylinder works fine in my wife's GLC, but in a performance/sports sedan, no thank you, the main reason the C63 (W205) would entice me (as well as many other buyers) is the V8 and its character, exhaust, etc. AMG is pretty much synonymous with V8. Add on top of that the rumored 4500lbs, that's a porker for compact sedan. Of course I'll withold judgement till the car is a reality, but like the new M3, the C63 is not exciting me, and to think, they had the perfect opportunity to one up BMW with the M3/4's new controversial face.
I would personally not buy an AMG C-Class or other models with a 4-cylinder, just not my cup of tea. The 4-cylinder works fine in my wife's GLC, but in a performance/sports sedan, no thank you, the main reason the C63 (W205) would entice me (as well as many other buyers) is the V8 and its character, exhaust, etc. AMG is pretty much synonymous with V8. Add on top of that the rumored 4500lbs, that's a porker for compact sedan. Of course I'll withold judgement till the car is a reality, but like the new M3, the C63 is not exciting me, and to think, they had the perfect opportunity to one up BMW with the M3/4's new controversial face.
Look at the new M4, people cried about the front fascia, but BMW already sold record numbers of those cars last year. You won't even get an allocation if you wanted one. So clearly may be we are wrong and maybe they are right.
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'15 C63S
I do not think none of these companies really care about what the enthusiasts really want. I don't even think they read their own AMG private lounge forums. Cause the the VPs, or exces, whoever makes these kind of decision has any touch with reality. Or maybe they are in touch with reality, and the numbers of people who craves the V8 with enough enthusiasm is just restricted to places like these forums and may be the majority of the buyers just care about the brand and logo.
Look at the new M4, people cried about the front fascia, but BMW already sold record numbers of those cars last year. You won't even get an allocation if you wanted one. So clearly may be we are wrong and maybe they are right.
Look at the new M4, people cried about the front fascia, but BMW already sold record numbers of those cars last year. You won't even get an allocation if you wanted one. So clearly may be we are wrong and maybe they are right.
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
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2005 E55
It's not that they don't care about enthusiast's opinions. It's that they are in the business of building cars that sell for an overall profit. We also have to remember that the typical "enthusiast" is usually someone that wants thing to stay as they are and is usually the most resistant to any sort of change from what they view as being "proper". In an industry as everchanging and cutthroat as the auto industry, no major manufacturer can afford not to innovate. They have to look toward the future.
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
c32
E55
S55
Sl55
S65
Sl65
There is only like 1 engine that was na the m156.
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'15 C63S
And exactly to your point, those complaints had absolutely no context to true history and/or anything in reality. Just the same as everyone complaining on here about the hybrid I4 engine.
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No more MB:(
It's not that they don't care about enthusiast's opinions. It's that they are in the business of building cars that sell for an overall profit. We also have to remember that the typical "enthusiast" is usually someone that wants thing to stay as they are and is usually the most resistant to any sort of change from what they view as being "proper". In an industry as everchanging and cutthroat as the auto industry, no major manufacturer can afford not to innovate. They have to look toward the future.
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
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No more MB:(
Correct, I remember the 55 lines well. No one ever complained that these were Kompressor enhanced engines. I also don't recall that much uproar over the NA6.2 going to a smaller block turbo. Some purists didn't like it but I really don't think it effected sales or the visceral experience of an AMG. This however is a major change that will alienate a core. There is a limit to how much you can change performance cars.
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2005 E55
Correct, I remember the 55 lines well. No one ever complained that these were Kompressor enhanced engines. I also don't recall that much uproar over the NA6.2 going to a smaller block turbo. Some purists didn't like it but I really don't think it effected sales or the visceral experience of an AMG. This however is a major change that will alienate a core. There is a limit to how much you can change performance cars.
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2019 C63CS
I think we can debate whether this is about resisting change or simply a matter of knowing what one likes. For me it's the latter. I wouldn't quite equate a car with a smartphone, because cars have character. One of the things about ICE cars is that the engine largely defines the character of the car, and that is getting lost with electrification. EVs are more like appliances. The powertrains are already becoming commodity. I have a strong feeling that this will backfire for AMG. Just came across the following announcement from Audi who is putting a timetable on phasing out combustion engines and has already written off PHEVs, because Duesmann predicts that after the upcoming elections the incentives will go away for them due to increasing pressure in Germany because PHEVs are mostly driven like ICEs and very few plug them in, so he predicts customers will lose interest quickly. Maybe they sell a bunch in China, but I think they'll be losing the EU and US markets unless they start competing with the Taycan and upcoming Audi e-tron GT.
https://www.electrive.com/2021/01/22...-a6-a8-models/
https://www.electrive.com/2021/01/22...-a6-a8-models/
Last edited by superswiss; Jan 22, 2021 at 05:16 PM.
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C55 AMG T with Kleemann K2 and some stuff: 414 hp and 562 Nm :-)
The M 113 AMG V8 also came as a N/A, for example in the C 55 as mine, (the predecessor to the C 63 M156).
The engine was in the beginning designed by Mercedes and then developed and bored and finally finished by AMG
into the "5,5" built in Affalterbach, called the M 113 EVO: SOHC, 3 valves, twinsparked and shortstroked unusual engine!
Plenty of torque down low but likes best to be revved. Always instant power. Very reliable.
Can´t imagine a turbocharged 4-banger again. Jumping the M 156 sadly with it´s built-in problems and going in the future
for the M 177, the last V8 in the C-class.
Had mine for almost 12 years now as a DD, tuned or as I say "Freed of Limitations"!
These new electric vehicles lack "soul" in my opinion, what it´s worth.
The engine was in the beginning designed by Mercedes and then developed and bored and finally finished by AMG
into the "5,5" built in Affalterbach, called the M 113 EVO: SOHC, 3 valves, twinsparked and shortstroked unusual engine!
Plenty of torque down low but likes best to be revved. Always instant power. Very reliable.
Can´t imagine a turbocharged 4-banger again. Jumping the M 156 sadly with it´s built-in problems and going in the future
for the M 177, the last V8 in the C-class.
Had mine for almost 12 years now as a DD, tuned or as I say "Freed of Limitations"!
These new electric vehicles lack "soul" in my opinion, what it´s worth.
Last edited by amgen; Jan 22, 2021 at 09:47 PM.
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2016 C63 S AMG
It's not that they don't care about enthusiast's opinions. It's that they are in the business of building cars that sell for an overall profit. We also have to remember that the typical "enthusiast" is usually someone that wants thing to stay as they are and is usually the most resistant to any sort of change from what they view as being "proper". In an industry as everchanging and cutthroat as the auto industry, no major manufacturer can afford not to innovate. They have to look toward the future.
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
Like I said in a previous reply, people over the last several years have bemoaned the addition of turbos to the AMG V8 because it isn't a purist/enthusiast AMG engine. People will now complain about the hybridization and electrification of AMG vehicles. Get over it, because if AMG wasn't innovating like they are right now, the brand will quickly become a relic of what it once was. Are the batteries heavy now? Yes, they are. Will they be in a decade? Probably not. But in order to be in a position to have those lighter batteries and overall power system, you have to begin to innovate now.
It's like complaining 10 years ago that Samsung needed to concentrate on making flip phones because touchscreens were too bulky and complex. You really think that was ever going to happen? Where do you think Samsung would be right now if they just now decided to start making smartphones instead of doing it when they did?
Super Member
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From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
You make a very logical argument and most likely this is the direction performance cars are going so might as well start the R&D. Except, one problem. Just like everything in life timing is everything. In this time I can get a i6 m3 weighing 3700/3800 lbs and with a manual option for those that care. Despite the hideous grill this is a much better option for enthusiasts than a 4400lbs 4cyl. Do hybrid R&D on other cars like the GT73. At least try to compete with your direct competitor.
You can look at timing in a different way though. You can look at it as MB/AMG getting a head start on what this segment will eventually morph into whereas others will be lagging behind because they stuck with a more traditional setup.
We have to remember that AMG is the main performance division of MB that defines the sporty trim level from pretty much every meaningful model they sell. It's no longer an independent tuner company like it was a few decades ago, and it's also no longer just that semi-obscure performance car that was built by car people in fairly limited numbers. For AMG to exist in its current role (whether we like that role or not), it needs to fit within the overall production evolution of all of MB, not just cater to a select few enthusiasts that are a rounding error on the company's financials. Whether people like that or not, it's the reality that we all need to come to accept.
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2016 C63 S AMG
You can look at timing in a different way though. You can look at it as MB/AMG getting a head start on what this segment will eventually morph into whereas others will be lagging behind because they stuck with a more traditional setup.
We have to remember that AMG is the main performance division of MB that defines the sporty trim level from pretty much every meaningful model they sell. It's no longer an independent tuner company like it was a few decades ago, and it's also no longer just that semi-obscure performance car that was built by car people in fairly limited numbers. For AMG to exist in its current role (whether we like that role or not), it needs to fit within the overall production evolution of all of MB, not just cater to a select few enthusiasts that are a rounding error on the company's financials. Whether people like that or not, it's the reality that we all need to come to accept.
We have to remember that AMG is the main performance division of MB that defines the sporty trim level from pretty much every meaningful model they sell. It's no longer an independent tuner company like it was a few decades ago, and it's also no longer just that semi-obscure performance car that was built by car people in fairly limited numbers. For AMG to exist in its current role (whether we like that role or not), it needs to fit within the overall production evolution of all of MB, not just cater to a select few enthusiasts that are a rounding error on the company's financials. Whether people like that or not, it's the reality that we all need to come to accept.
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2017 Porsche 911 C4
You can look at timing in a different way though. You can look at it as MB/AMG getting a head start on what this segment will eventually morph into whereas others will be lagging behind because they stuck with a more traditional setup.
We have to remember that AMG is the main performance division of MB that defines the sporty trim level from pretty much every meaningful model they sell. It's no longer an independent tuner company like it was a few decades ago, and it's also no longer just that semi-obscure performance car that was built by car people in fairly limited numbers. For AMG to exist in its current role (whether we like that role or not), it needs to fit within the overall production evolution of all of MB, not just cater to a select few enthusiasts that are a rounding error on the company's financials. Whether people like that or not, it's the reality that we all need to come to accept.
We have to remember that AMG is the main performance division of MB that defines the sporty trim level from pretty much every meaningful model they sell. It's no longer an independent tuner company like it was a few decades ago, and it's also no longer just that semi-obscure performance car that was built by car people in fairly limited numbers. For AMG to exist in its current role (whether we like that role or not), it needs to fit within the overall production evolution of all of MB, not just cater to a select few enthusiasts that are a rounding error on the company's financials. Whether people like that or not, it's the reality that we all need to come to accept.
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
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2005 E55
Why beat around the bush? Just make the W206 and all future AMG’s pure EV’s then. One platform/sled with heavy batteries, add fake sound, with no unique power train other than the number of KW’s, and you have AMG as Daimler wishes it to be.
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
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From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
Why beat around the bush? Just make the W206 and all future AMG’s pure EV’s then. One platform/sled with heavy batteries, add fake sound, with no unique power train other than the number of KW’s, and you have AMG as Daimler wishes it to be.
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
I get where you're coming from, but I doubt AMG is going to come out with a full EV until it has everything perfected.
Even though they don't currently have a high-performance hybrid system on the market, they do have the ability to pull a ton of technical knowhow from the Formula 1 team and all they've learned over the last decade of designing/developing/manufacturing a hybrid drivetrain. Better to start there while developing the full EV in the background.
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No more MB:(
Why beat around the bush? Just make the W206 and all future AMG’s pure EV’s then. One platform/sled with heavy batteries, add fake sound, with no unique power train other than the number of KW’s, and you have AMG as Daimler wishes it to be.
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
It’ll be funny to watch the W206 with all this electric hybrid technology get demolished in a straight line by a Model 3 Performance with an OTA update Elon can push out at his will... oh, the AMG is faster? Let’s just unlock those extra KW’s....
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No more MB:(
Out Of Control!!
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2019 C63CS
I get where you're coming from, but I doubt AMG is going to come out with a full EV until it has everything perfected.
Even though they don't currently have a high-performance hybrid system on the market, they do have the ability to pull a ton of technical knowhow from the Formula 1 team and all they've learned over the last decade of designing/developing/manufacturing a hybrid drivetrain. Better to start there while developing the full EV in the background.
Even though they don't currently have a high-performance hybrid system on the market, they do have the ability to pull a ton of technical knowhow from the Formula 1 team and all they've learned over the last decade of designing/developing/manufacturing a hybrid drivetrain. Better to start there while developing the full EV in the background.
Super Member
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From: Houston, TX
'15 C63S
The reality is that AMG is late to the game, not ahead of the curve. They are going PHEV primarily to save their bacon, and because Germany currently gives preferential treatment to anything with an electric component, but that is expected to go away. Daimler has the EQ sub brand, but the EQC was a flop. Audi has the e-tron brand and they are about to come out with the first e-tron RS model, the e-tron GT RS and the e-tron SUV sold well. BMW will be the next to struggle, because they still don't have a story at all. PHEV is just a crutch at this point.
In that respect, AMG isn't late at all.
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2019 c63s coupe, 2008 s63 sedan, 2007 335i coupe
The Audi e-tron line is a completely different subject as it's not the current performance line. An apples-to-apples comparison to AMG would be the S/RS models. We're talking about the evolution of the existing lines, not the creation of anything new.
In that respect, AMG isn't late at all.
In that respect, AMG isn't late at all.
Out Of Control!!
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2019 C63CS
The Audi e-tron line is a completely different subject as it's not the current performance line. An apples-to-apples comparison to AMG would be the S/RS models. We're talking about the evolution of the existing lines, not the creation of anything new.
In that respect, AMG isn't late at all.
In that respect, AMG isn't late at all.
Audi has an all electric rs model coming out in 2021.. They have a plan for all electric rs models going forward. Did I miss something? AMG just the other day announced they were making all electric models for the eqc lineup.. Audi has been talking about this for a minute and look at Porsche with the Taycan. I remember that all electric sls that was like $500k in 2014 and took almost a day to fully charge. That's about it.
