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I just had my winter tires installed and also a computerized Alignment at an All Tire company.
The owner stated the right side front and rear camber adjustments are out of specs. See Alignment sheet below.
I made an appt. this friday at MB to get the Aignment re-inspected.
Not familiar with this, so could some damage could have been done due to poor road conditions and if so what would be needed to correct it.
I do have the MB Extended warranty so if parts are needed it will be covered .
I am interested in what your Dealer says about why and how to adjust.
Make sure you get report after they align and to be honest, I would go back to your original tire shop and have them double check the MB Dealers alignment specs.
Because really, the only way for owners to know is measure themselves or wait until tires wear funky.
This looks like both your subframes have shifted to the passenger side. Camber in our cars cannot be adjusted from the factory, except for rebalancing the subframe. You need to have the subframe shifted towards the driver side to balance the left and right camber. Basically add about -0.4 degrees to the driver side in the front and taking away -0.4 degrees from the passenger side, so you are balanced, and similarly in the rear. Both your driver side camber settings are right on the low end while your passenger side is above the high end. This is assuming you didn't actually damage parts of your suspension.
This looks like both your subframes have shifted to the passenger side. Camber in our cars cannot be adjusted from the factory, except for rebalancing the subframe. You need to have the subframe shifted towards the driver side to balance the left and right camber. Basically add about -0.4 degrees to the driver side in the front and taking away -0.4 degrees from the passenger side, so you are balanced, and similarly in the rear. Both your driver side camber settings are right on the low end while your passenger side is above the high end. This is assuming you didn't actually damage parts of your suspension.
This is very informative for me to know when I bring to MB on friday. The All Tire company either did no how to correct this or did not want to spend the time or have access to any parts if needed.
I just got back and asked a Indy who had recently replaced my brakes. Regarding this alignment concern "don't worry about it", ???? if you hit something you would know it. He asked about wear on the front summer tires and the All Tire company said they were good.
So I just took a number of photos of both front tires and measured about 7-8 /32. See photos. They seem ok.
Is shifting or rebalancing the subframe a major undertaking? Or what possible part(s) might be needed?
I purchased the MB Extended warranty so if parts are needed, don"t know if it will be covered.
. For me. I want everything to be right.
This is very informative for me to know when I bring to MB on friday. The All Tire company either did no how to correct this or did not want to spend the time or have access to any parts if needed.
I just got back and asked a Indy who had recently replaced my brakes. Regarding this alignment concern "don't worry about it", ???? if you hit something you would know it. He asked about wear on the front summer tires and the All Tire company said they were good.
So I just took a number of photos of both front tires and measured about 7-8 /32. See photos. They seem ok.
Is shifting or rebalancing the subframe a major undertaking? Or what possible part(s) might be needed?
I purchased the MB Extended warranty so if parts are needed, don"t know if it will be covered.
. For me. I want everything to be right.
Tire shops usually don't get down to this level of alignment. All they do is adjust toe. The alignment tech at your dealership, though should know what to do, but yes unless you have excessive uneven tire wear its not really worth it. I had the rear subframe rebalanced on my previous car, because after putting on spacers, one wheel was visually further out than the other. It evened it out but wasn't perfect.
Alignments are pretty much never covered by warranty, because it naturally gets out of spec from driving and the suspension settling. It's not actually all that unusual to have more camber on the passenger side vs the driver side when the car is just sitting there. Once you get in, the springs on the driver side compress and that adds additional camber. Camber helps with cornering. Our cars naturally get camber wear on the inner edge of the tires because the camber is quite aggressive, but that's on purpose and 0.4 degrees isn't gonna make much of a difference in wear.
If you are mostly driving in a straight line and are concerned about the camber wear then you'd have to get aftermarket adjustable control arms to take out most of the negative camber and have it closer to zero, but that will negatively affect handling in the corners.
Last edited by superswiss; Nov 28, 2023 at 05:45 PM.
This looks like both your subframes have shifted to the passenger side. Camber in our cars cannot be adjusted from the factory, except for rebalancing the subframe. You need to have the subframe shifted towards the driver side to balance the left and right camber. Basically add about -0.4 degrees to the driver side in the front and taking away -0.4 degrees from the passenger side, so you are balanced, and similarly in the rear. Both your driver side camber settings are right on the low end while your passenger side is above the high end. This is assuming you didn't actually damage parts of your suspension.
Tire shops usually don't get down to this level of alignment. All they do is adjust toe. The alignment tech at your dealership, though should know what to do, but yes unless you have excessive uneven tire wear its not really worth it. I had the rear subframe rebalanced on my previous car, because after putting on spacers, one wheel was visually further out than the other. It evened it out but wasn't perfect.
Alignments are pretty much never covered by warranty, because it naturally gets out of spec from driving and the suspension settling. It's not actually all that unusual to have more camber on the passenger side vs the driver side when the car is just sitting there. Once you get in, the springs on the driver side compress and that adds additional camber. Camber helps with cornering. Our cars naturally get camber wear on the inner edge of the tires because the camber is quite aggressive, but that's on purpose and 0.4 degrees isn't gonna make much of a difference in wear.
If you are mostly driving in a straight line and are concerned about the camber wear then you'd have to get aftermarket adjustable control arms to take out most of the negative camber and have it closer to zero, but that will negatively affect handling in the corners.
I will update after Alignment inspection at MB which is schedule for friday.
Most C63’S’ AMG owners are of the opinion - surely such a prestigious model - performance / track days “ex-factory” must incorporate full Front Camber and Caster along with Rear Camber adjustment !
But reality is OEM there is only basic front and rear Toe / directional adjustment
Camber is set / configured to suit “showroom height” conditions. Excess passengers side edge wear through high cambered roads, altered height, curb knock damage or track days…. there is now no longer Camber adjustment facilities (new car industry’s best kept secret).
It is all to do with cost cutting and ever increasing speed of new car assembly lines !
C63’S’ (Coupe Only) on the ‘rear’ - you can fit shims but they are a “one offset” position providing a minimal 4mm.
K-MAC rear kit “replaces this lower arm inner bush” providing serious adjustment - 3 times adjustment range and it is “precise” - single wrench “ULTIMATE” adjustment. Direct on alignment rack UNDER LOAD !
Rear kit also includes “extra Toe adjustment” to compensate for the new Camber facility.
Similar kit available for the C63’S’ Sedans and Wagons.
K-MAC Front kits available either Camber only or Camber and Caster.
NOTE: All front and rear kits designed so do not require special tools or removal of arms to install !
See Spoiler
Spoiler
AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
I just had my winter tires installed and also a computerized Alignment at an All Tire company.
The owner stated the right side front and rear camber adjustments are out of specs. See Alignment sheet below.
I made an appt. this friday at MB to get the Aignment re-inspected.
Not familiar with this, so could some damage could have been done due to poor road conditions and if so what would be needed to correct it.
I do have the MB Extended warranty so if parts are needed it will be covered .
Based on the All Tire alignment photo above and their finding that my right side front and rear camber adjustments are out of specs.
So decided to have MB do a re-inspection last friday. (See photo Alignment sheet below ). The MB Dealership charged me an additional $140.00 for additional adjustment time necessary to complete the Alignment. The original Alignment was $299.00 plus $140.00.
The MB Service manager it was very complicated to explain over the phone but his Alignment tech with 15 years doing alignment knew what was needed to be done. Something with Camber adjustment.
So I went back to All Tire and they reluctantly re- checked the Alignment and stated that MB did nothing from the original alignment that they did. So that's where I stand. Just an update to my post.
May I ask what part number are the shims or where to buy them? My kmac bushings make too much noise even after trying so many times and wasted so much money
May I ask what part number are the shims or where to buy them? My kmac bushings make too much noise even after trying so many times and wasted so much money
Impossible re noise - there is no metal to metal contact ! Unless at time of initial alignment a bolt was not fully tight. Emphasized on instruction sheet - Noise, failure of bush will result. Simply contact us sales@k-mac.com and advise left or right side and your delivery address (you mention offset shim so must be rear for a Coupe model !).
Impossible re noise - there is no metal to metal contact ! Unless at time of initial alignment a bolt was not fully tight. Emphasized on instruction sheet - Noise, failure of bush will result. Simply contact us sales@k-mac.com and advise left or right side and your delivery address (you mention offset shim so must be rear for a Coupe model !).
Kevin
Isn’t that been your bane with these kits? The fact that they come loose? And yeah. I’ve read some saying it’s been great for them. But for this caliber vehicle it seems’ to be a recurring theme. Educate me….
Isn’t that been your bane with these kits? The fact that they come loose? And yeah. I’ve read some saying it’s been great for them. But for this caliber vehicle it seems’ to be a recurring theme. Educate me….
In production since 1993 (30 years) - well and truly proven (along with constant development in all out heavy V8 Competition racing). Cannot come loose as fail safe lock system !!
Being a eccentric adjuster it is all about (on completion of Wheel Alignment) essential the 2 or 4 mount bolts are fully tightened as highlighted on instruction sheet.
In production since 1993 (30 years) - well and truly proven (along with constant development in all out heavy V8 Competition racing). Cannot come loose as fail safe lock system !!
Being a eccentric adjuster it is all about (on completion of Wheel Alignment) essential the 2 or 4 mount bolts are fully tightened as highlighted on instruction sheet.
Kevin
Personally I don’t care how long KMac has been in business. I only care about CURRENT products. Dependable and reliable products. I think back to the early 2000’s and KMac upgrade brake kits for BMW M3’s and M5’s. Your reputation precedes you: https://www.m5board.com/threads/k-mac-camber-plates.114118/
Last edited by ///Bruce; Dec 11, 2023 at 08:35 AM.
Personally I don’t care how long KMac has been in business. I only care about CURRENT products. Dependable and reliable products. I think back to the early 2000’s and KMac upgrade brake kits for BMW M3’s and M5’s. Your reputation precedes you: https://www.m5board.com/threads/k-ma...plates.114118/
Bruce seems damned if we do, damned if we don’t. 30 years of experience means nothing?
Yet it has led to the current products !
Re upgrades Brake kits for BMW M3’s and M5’s.
Total of 60 years now in manufacture of aftermarket performance bushings and adjuster kits we have never been involved in “brake linings” for any make, model !
Bruce seems damned if we do, damned if we don’t. 30 years of experience means nothing?
Yet it has led to the current products !
Re upgrades Brake kits for BMW M3’s and M5’s.
Total of 60 years now in manufacture of aftermarket performance bushings and adjuster kits we have never been involved in “brake linings” for any make, model !
Based on the All Tire alignment photo above and their finding that my right side front and rear camber adjustments are out of specs.
So decided to have MB do a re-inspection last friday. (See photo Alignment sheet below ). The MB Dealership charged me an additional $140.00 for additional adjustment time necessary to complete the Alignment. The original Alignment was $299.00 plus $140.00.
The MB Service manager it was very complicated to explain over the phone but his Alignment tech with 15 years doing alignment knew what was needed to be done. Something with Camber adjustment.
So I went back to All Tire and they reluctantly re- checked the Alignment and stated that MB did nothing from the original alignment that they did. So that's where I stand. Just an update to my post.
They did correct the rear Camber significantly for you. You were sitting at -2'13 degrees of right rear camber now your sitting equal to the driver side, both being at -1'52/-1'51 on both rear axles after the correction states on your report. As for the front that stayed the same unfortunately. I would love to know how they corrected this as my 21 c63s is suffering from the EXACT same issue on both front and rear axles with very similar camber angles. When i took mine in for an alignment after getting tires put on last week they stated they needed to replace and elastomer bushing that was not covered under my extended warranty to correct my right sides excessive camber angles they wanted $1500 but couldnt tell me which arm they were replacing the upper or lower. Any technical insight on your dealer alignment repair would be helpful next time i bring it in for service, My dealer just wanted to charge me and give me the run around. I paid $360 for an alignment there for them to "set the toe and let it go". typical dealer BS.
They did correct the rear Camber significantly for you. You were sitting at -2'13 degrees of right rear camber now your sitting equal to the driver side, both being at -1'52/-1'51 on both rear axles after the correction states on your report. As for the front that stayed the same unfortunately. I would love to know how they corrected this as my 21 c63s is suffering from the EXACT same issue on both front and rear axles with very similar camber angles. When i took mine in for an alignment after getting tires put on last week they stated they needed to replace and elastomer bushing that was not covered under my extended warranty to correct my right sides excessive camber angles they wanted $1500 but couldnt tell me which arm they were replacing the upper or lower. Any technical insight on your dealer alignment repair would be helpful next time i bring it in for service, My dealer just wanted to charge me and give me the run around. I paid $360 for an alignment there for them to "set the toe and let it go". typical dealer BS.
Further background info… reason there was “no change on front” is because the “C63S Coupe” has location for installing a 4mm (3/16”) offset shim ONLY ON THE REAR LOWER ARM INNER MOUNT…. but it’s inaccurate having only one offset position !
We saw the need therefore and replace this shim mount with 4 times the adjustment range AND PRECISE SINGLE WRENCH ADJUSTMENT (Ultimate - direct on alignment rack “UNDER LOAD”). See spoiler below re instruction sheet (kit also includes extra Toe adjustment to compensate).
SIMILAR KITS WE MANUFACTURE FOR ALL OTHER MODELS SEEING THERE IS ONLY FRONT AND REAR TOE OEM. While for front kits Camber only or Camber and Caster (all front and rear also designed so fit without need for arm removal or special tools) !
RE “REPLACING OF ELASTOMER BUSH”.
It would be the Front “lower arm” inner bush. Stealerships charge of $1500 to replace for one side - if you commit they’re laughing !
K-MAC $365…. FOR “BOTH” SIDES - Front lower arm inner bushes including bush extraction tool allowing replacement ON VEHICLE without need for arm removal or special tools PLUS INCLUDING PRECISE / ONGOING “CAMBER” ADJUSTMENT FOR THE 1ST TIME (and longest established when it comes to the experience of manufacturing aftermarket performance bushings - 1964).
Kevin
Spoiler
NOTE: C63’S’ Sedan, Wagon, Coupe Front (Camber only) #503316-1 $345 (both sides) …………………………………............….....,…..…….(Camber & Caster) #503316K $480 (both sides)
Sedan, Wagon Rear (Camber & Extra Toe) #502226K $480 (both sides) Coupe Rear (Camber & Extra Toe) …..........#502326-1K $480 (both sides)
Front kit Camber & Caster #503316K
AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
