Wtf man if I was Mercedes, I would do all I could to keep a loyal client like you happy. We're talking about a real long term customer here and they offer you less than a grand discount on an issue that's widely known on one of their high tier products failing you?? Ten percent discount?? I can't get over that..... that is plain rude. Seriously.... God that just sh*ts me

 

YEP, a MILLION DOLLAR customer gets a $900 discount on a repair THAT THEY KNOW IS COMING on these M177's installed on $100,000+++ AMG'S. Luckily for MERCEDES BENZ/AMG it's happening AFTER the 4 years 50,000 miles factory warranty in the vast majority of cases. It would take LEGAL ACTION to get some response BUT they are DEEP with corporate house attorneys ready for the battle I'm quite sure...

 

Have you reported the issue to the nhtsa? What about the BBB? It's free to report. If no one reports it, then it'll never get flagged.

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I am in Atlanta, Georgia, the home of the NA Mercedes Benz Headquarters, and have reported it to the EPA, Mehle(oil separator manufacturer/OEM supplier),our local TV 11 Alive Consumer Affairs and AMG in Affalterbach through the AMG Lounge customer forum. An AMG Lounge "team member" has responded and I have requested an Executive level response...waiting. I have provided all our feeds with photos and my assessment based on the failure history information provided through both our MBWORLD and AMG LOUNGE forum discussions of the M177 engine oil leaks. It would probably take legal action to get Mercedes Benz to move on this because they aren't going to do it "out of the goodness of their heart" even for a $1 Million Dollars customer who has purchased SIXTEEN of their automobiles over 43 years! That's CUSTOMER LOYALTY isn't it?

 

So, are there any preventative maintenance measures that can be done to Hopefully avoid this? Maybe replacing the oil separator? (Not sure if that's a viable option as I am unfamiliar with its location and cost to replace.)

 

IMPOSSIBLE location for routine service! AWFUL design...note the many photos with engine REMOVED from the car to replace the rear main seal and oil separators...

 

Any update at all? Hopefully they made you whole...

 

TOTALLY ignored it at AMG in Affalterbach, MB Atlanta Headquarters and RBM says they have never seen that particular problem which is FALSE. Solo Motorsports in Atlanta told me that they had repaired 4 out of warranty M177 LS2 engines with this same failure in recent months. I sold my E63S and spent my LAST dime on ANY MB product.

 

Ugh sorry, that is frustrating. If you left MB what did you end up getting then?
You are not alone with being treated like this: https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roa...-no-gt-me.html

 

Just heard back from dealer today just under $10k to replace separators, valves and rear main seal. Dealer said too much pressure built up and caused rear seal to blowout - I mentioned the issue with oil vapor separators, they knocked about $2.5k off original price. Labor is the issue since it is estimated 40 hours, parts were like $1300. Can't believe they didn't put a recall on this issue

 

i have a 2019 facelift c63s coupe 55k miles, this just happened to me today. $4,200 labor estimate (150/hr for 30 hours) + misc parts totaling $6,200. Sounds like I need a 2nd opinion?

 

I've got 87k on my 17S and now you guys have me worried. No leaks witnessed on last inspections but I feel I'm on borrowed time now

 

What exactly is the oil separator responsible for? Are there any ways to relieve its workload and increase its service life?

 

sound about average or below average cost... see this extensive thread if you haven't already
https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...-rms-leak.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...lift-e63s.html

 

It removes oil from the intake air that finds its way there through the normal workings of the engine. In direct injection engines, this oil is responsible for building up on the back of the intake valves over time, because in those engines, the fuel isn't sprayed onto the backs of the valves anymore to keep them clean, instead it's sprayed directly into the combustion chamber. This is known as carbon buildup, and if it gets too bad, the engine requires a carbon clean. The build up has to be mechanically removed via walnut blasting or soaking the back of the valves with a solvent and scraping it off.

There isn't much of a workload the oil separator does, but if it gets clogged, then the pressure builds up and eventually causes the rear main seal to fail. I don't think it has been revealed what specifically causes it to clog up in the affected engines, but doing more frequent oil changes can't hurt to keep the oil as clean as possible. Also, driving style probably plays a role. The vehicles where it mainly seems to happen, the E63 and G63, tend to not be flogged around very much due to the kind of customer that buys them. They end up being used as commuter cars mostly with the engine diddling around at low rpms. There's something to be said about the good old Italian tuneup. These engines are built to be driven hard, so redline them frequently to blow the gunk out. As I keep saying, a redline a day keeps the mechanic away :-).

Also, frequent short distance driving isn't good for any modern engine. Make sure that the engine always properly reaches operating temperature for a long period to run optimally. With the kind of driving people do in the USA, such as driving as little as a mile to the grocery store and back to their house, sitting hours in stop&go traffic etc. isn't really all that good for these engines. Consider an electric car for the daily grunt and reserve these phenomenal cars for proper driving.

 

The separator is a filter and a still.

It blocks particle and droplet flow and causes vapor condensation via impingement by virtue of droplet contact with separator geometry inside the separator labyrinth.

There is a thermodynamic effect of condensation as hot vapor exits the crankcase and travels through the comparatively cooler vapor tubes and into the separator chamber, then back into the, again comparatively cooler, intake duct.

Car companies are tying to solve a multi-science problem with crappy cheap plastic tubes and a cheap blow molded catch bottle - the separator itself.

 

Aftermarket catch can. But not a perfect solution.

Can cans need to be periodically emptied, or plumbed into the intake or crankcase. Re-entry into the engine is the problem with MB's solution. The OVS system is a flow-through design which gets clogged because of MB's usual engineering failures. Aftermarket catch can mitigates intake valve deposits and only partially addresses clogging. In the scenario where the user fails to empty the catch can or the aftermarket components are blocked, clogging can result.

Assuming a catch can does not clog and the user empties it periodically, pressure/vacuum balance in the crankcase needs to be assured. Modern engines have far more crankcase vacuum than in the old days, for the purpose of capturing vapors and reducing indirect (non-tailpipe) emissions. Severing the factory OVS system by installing an aftermarket catch can changes the crankcase ventilation balance. Risk is excess pressure or excess vacuum in the crankcase which can compromise engine gaskets and seals.

Using an aftermarket solution is not worth it in my view, to try to re-engineer a complex system that a car company has already failed to solve.

 

Other than using an aftermarket catch can, get and hold the oil temps to at least 212F for as long as possible.

 

I wish we had a database of the cars that have suffered an RMS failure. I can imagine guys don't want to provide their VINs but even something as simple as build date, AMG engine builder's name, and state of ownership, along with mileage would be nice. If such a thing exist, I'd love to see it.

 

Would something like a VTA adapter help this issue? Recirculating less oil vapor should prevent clogging right?

 

There's a company marketing a catch can kit that you install in the EGR system. Looks like they began selling it in mid 2024, I only know of one person who has used it on his E63S wagon, and he was kind of a beta tester - and I've seen where I think he actually sold the car, but in other post he says he still has it. I have no idea what to make of it. The kit cost $1500, then you have to install it yourself or pay someone to do it; looks moderately difficult because it has to fight into a fairly tight space. Kit also requires quarterly maintenance, that doesn't look difficult. If I was 100% certain it worked I'd do it, but kind of too early to tell.

If curious just search the web for 63 motorsports, they might be a sponsor on mbworld too.

 

That catch can is currently only for the ls2 m177 motors. I messaged them last week and was told they are currently working on a kit for the ls1. I do think 1500 for a catch can is heavily taxed but hey if it works it saves you more so I guess its worth it.

 

Hello gents,

2018 c63s coupe owner here,

Did a little digging, these are the changes between the M177 (LS1) and M177 (LS2) engines. The M177 (LS2) engine was used in the 213 E63’s W423 G63’s and W222 S63’s.

The oil separator was adjusted in the LS2, I’m certain us 205’s will not have this issue unless you’re unlucky.

https://wright-company.net/wp-conten...017/02/E63.pdf

 

Nice find! For the first time this puts a possible culprit and explanation on why this is happening in those models and not others. I've long suspected that the affected models are using a different oil separator.

 

well, it just happened to me. Thank god for the CPO extended warranty.

I brought the car in because the heat wasn’t working, and the service dept. convinced me to do spark plugs at 45k miles.

When they did the plugs, they found oil leaking from the head gasket, oil separators failed, and rear main seal failed.

All replaced, without removing the engine (looks like they took the transmission out from the bottom to get at the RMS).

anyway I’m in a W222, but it’s the S560. So I think these oil separators are just a bad design it seems. Both of mine were failed.

Guess I need to budget $10k in 5 years time to do this again out of warranty.