2001 CL600: To chip, or not to chip...?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 7
From: NY
SL65 AMG
2001 CL600: To chip, or not to chip...?
"...that is the question."
Hey friends,
I'm seeking some experienced advice here. The conventional wisdom would be that chipping a car would enhance performance at the cost of efficiency, yet I've read several posts indicating that many chippers see better fuel economy. Is this true?
Also, not that I've some pressing need for it, but chips remove the speed limitation - correct? Is this limit 135 or 155? My experiences this past weekend (the car stopped pulling at about 130, then only crept higher) tell me it's the former, but I thought it was the latter.
I've no interest in doing any serious modifications to the car, such as "real" engine work or suspension modifications. But I thought a chip might be a worthwhile investment. That, and a K&N filter, which I can't seem to locate for this vehicle, I'm not sure one exists.
So please chime in here if you have some experience? It's really appreciated.
-V
Hey friends,
I'm seeking some experienced advice here. The conventional wisdom would be that chipping a car would enhance performance at the cost of efficiency, yet I've read several posts indicating that many chippers see better fuel economy. Is this true?
Also, not that I've some pressing need for it, but chips remove the speed limitation - correct? Is this limit 135 or 155? My experiences this past weekend (the car stopped pulling at about 130, then only crept higher) tell me it's the former, but I thought it was the latter.
I've no interest in doing any serious modifications to the car, such as "real" engine work or suspension modifications. But I thought a chip might be a worthwhile investment. That, and a K&N filter, which I can't seem to locate for this vehicle, I'm not sure one exists.
So please chime in here if you have some experience? It's really appreciated.
-V
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: LI, New York
All of them, as much as I can...
Seems like we're all in the same moon phase???
I too just spoke to the Evosport folks regarding their "Powerchip". $1190! for some 38 hp gain. I also have a call out to Upsolute but haven't gotten a response back. They advertise around $400. I'm not hell bent on it because the CL600 feels good as is. I chipped my E430 via Upsolute and in combination with a K&N swap, must have gained about 20 horses. Measured with my G Tech Pro over 8-10 runs, my 0-60 was cut by .6 secs. average. Which is pretty good. I did it at 2000 miles on the odometer. At around 22000 miles, I had to replace both catalytic converters (under warranty) as they started to rattle; perhaps due to the changed fuel/air ratio or mixture(rich). The cool thing about Upsolute is that they take your orig. chip, download the specific data and e-mail it to Stuttgart, then they analyze and remap, then e-mail back the new data, and the tech burns it to your original chip. In effect, all VIN, and warranty-sensitive info on the computers - is retained.
So what other chips are available? Can we compile data and maybe get a group buy??
So what other chips are available? Can we compile data and maybe get a group buy??
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 7
From: NY
SL65 AMG
I spent some time last night reading through Powerchip's site. Seems they took no shortcuts in building a nice website to explain everything and instill confidence. By contrast, I checked out Jetchip and Upsolute and was less impressed. Jetchip I'd go with if I had a monster truck, and Upsolute, well I don't know 'cause the site's pretty much in German only. (Which is kinda cool, eh? Haa.) Looking at the performance gains strictly in terms of percentages, Powerchip edges out Jet and Upsolute. And they make a lot of noise about how it's not just at WOT where you see the gains. It's important to maintain every day driveability and finesse. So this approach, combined with their professionalism, I'd be more comfy going with Powerchip.
Short of someone with authority telling me it's a bad idea and here are the reasons why I shouldn't chip the car, I'm up for a group buy.
-V
Short of someone with authority telling me it's a bad idea and here are the reasons why I shouldn't chip the car, I'm up for a group buy.
-V
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 934
Likes: 2
From: Boston
NSX
If you talk to Renntech, they will tell you that the chip upgrade is possibly dangerous, and that the numbers are overhyped.... they do a whole computer upgrade and its $3k for the non turbo car, more for the TT.
Messing with a car's A/F ratios and ignition curves is really risky business. Like you said, I might try a chip in my Chevy, I am not sure I would do it in my CL600. Your warranty is essentialy void with any of these upgrades if they find out.
I really don't know enough about the chips... but do you really have that kind of faith in these guys? guys that make chips for like 100 different cars? I would certainly trust Renntech a lot more, but even that makes me slightly uncomfortable. I might consider a group buy on a Renntech upgrade only. I just don't trust the chips. I don't want to ruin my 80K car with some cheap upgrade.
Messing with a car's A/F ratios and ignition curves is really risky business. Like you said, I might try a chip in my Chevy, I am not sure I would do it in my CL600. Your warranty is essentialy void with any of these upgrades if they find out.
I really don't know enough about the chips... but do you really have that kind of faith in these guys? guys that make chips for like 100 different cars? I would certainly trust Renntech a lot more, but even that makes me slightly uncomfortable. I might consider a group buy on a Renntech upgrade only. I just don't trust the chips. I don't want to ruin my 80K car with some cheap upgrade.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 7
From: NY
SL65 AMG
No doubt in my mind that Renntech would be the optimal choice for the enthusiast. Honestly though? I'm not tyring to go nuts with performance upgrades. To me, the ideal solution would get my car to perform to the higher standards it could if it were not to be subjected to abuse or neglect, like crappy oil and low-octane fuel. I'm sure there's a lot of upside potential that remains untapped by the factory programming in anticipation of the cars' being treated and maintained to lower standards. The chipsters claim to tap this potential, which is why I'd rather take that route than swap whole modules of the car's labarynthine electronic management system. Of course, the performance gained does not approach that of more involved upgrades, but it's the "more involved" part I'd rather avoid in the first place.
So bringing it back to the question, should I/we chip or not? If not, then fine and I'll "suffer" the factory performance of CL600 - haa. If yes, then cool, I think I'd go with Powerchip (lots of Eurocars in their testimonials pages).
-V
Ooof, I just read this page: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters090.htm (scroll to the bottom). Perhaps chipping ain't such a good idea after all, but I welcome - encourage, even - anyone with real experience here to chime in.
So bringing it back to the question, should I/we chip or not? If not, then fine and I'll "suffer" the factory performance of CL600 - haa. If yes, then cool, I think I'd go with Powerchip (lots of Eurocars in their testimonials pages).
-V
Ooof, I just read this page: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters090.htm (scroll to the bottom). Perhaps chipping ain't such a good idea after all, but I welcome - encourage, even - anyone with real experience here to chime in.
Last edited by Vendetta; Apr 19, 2005 at 06:00 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: LI, New York
All of them, as much as I can...
I've gone gun shy on this chip thing
The more I think about it, the significant gain I got on my E430 was probably due to the K&N filters. Perhaps the chip added a few but at the possible cost of 2 cat converters, I'm leary about compromising the CL, especially since I'm on an extended 3rd party warranty program now.
I drove out east today, 150 miles round trip and The CL was NOT wanting of power. The smoothness, driveability, and general solid comfort is something I don't think I'd want to jeopardize.
I drove out east today, 150 miles round trip and The CL was NOT wanting of power. The smoothness, driveability, and general solid comfort is something I don't think I'd want to jeopardize.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 7
From: NY
SL65 AMG
Originally Posted by techbike
I drove out east today, 150 miles round trip...
Regarding the chip, yeah, I'm over it. Flash in the pan - for now, leastways. You mentioned your K&N. Is there one for our '01 CL600's? Can't find a part number. Anyone?
-V
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 934
Likes: 2
From: Boston
NSX
Originally Posted by Vendetta
No doubt in my mind that Renntech would be the optimal choice for the enthusiast. Honestly though? I'm not tyring to go nuts with performance upgrades. To me, the ideal solution would get my car to perform to the higher standards it could if it were not to be subjected to abuse or neglect, like crappy oil and low-octane fuel. I'm sure there's a lot of upside potential that remains untapped by the factory programming in anticipation of the cars' being treated and maintained to lower standards. The chipsters claim to tap this potential, which is why I'd rather take that route than swap whole modules of the car's labarynthine electronic management system. Of course, the performance gained does not approach that of more involved upgrades, but it's the "more involved" part I'd rather avoid in the first place.
So bringing it back to the question, should I/we chip or not? If not, then fine and I'll "suffer" the factory performance of CL600 - haa. If yes, then cool, I think I'd go with Powerchip (lots of Eurocars in their testimonials pages).
-V
Ooof, I just read this page: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters090.htm (scroll to the bottom). Perhaps chipping ain't such a good idea after all, but I welcome - encourage, even - anyone with real experience here to chime in.
So bringing it back to the question, should I/we chip or not? If not, then fine and I'll "suffer" the factory performance of CL600 - haa. If yes, then cool, I think I'd go with Powerchip (lots of Eurocars in their testimonials pages).
-V
Ooof, I just read this page: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters090.htm (scroll to the bottom). Perhaps chipping ain't such a good idea after all, but I welcome - encourage, even - anyone with real experience here to chime in.
I did read some technical stuff on the Renntech and feel fairly comfortable with it. Its totally different than a chip. And they say 25-30 RWHP. That will put the engine at close to 400... but the midrange and low end response improve quite a bit. The car just becomes more responsive so although its only 30 horse, it will feel like more. But there is no getting around the 3K price. Might be worth it if you are going to hang on to the car for a while. If not then you are better off saving it and putting it towards your next ride.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: LI, New York
All of them, as much as I can...
I've searched high and low, no K&N s...
However, I know a K&N dealer in Cali where I get hard 2 find K&Ns for my Minis; I'll ask there.
BTW, re speed on 27, I am fortunate to have discovered another "bonus" on this CL that I stole, A K40 system mounted front and back, hidden behind the front grille and behind the rear valance. The pod & indicators are mounted inside the instrument cluster, just in front of the 80 mph mark. There's also a laser jammer/sensor mounted below the front reg plate, made to look like an EZ Pass transducer. I have to learn the different alert sounds for different bands. I have yet to do a side by side test against my trusty V1 but it seems pretty good. I like the way the alert pod is in the way of my wife's view of the speedometer...I don't hear the "ahems" as often
BTW, re speed on 27, I am fortunate to have discovered another "bonus" on this CL that I stole, A K40 system mounted front and back, hidden behind the front grille and behind the rear valance. The pod & indicators are mounted inside the instrument cluster, just in front of the 80 mph mark. There's also a laser jammer/sensor mounted below the front reg plate, made to look like an EZ Pass transducer. I have to learn the different alert sounds for different bands. I have yet to do a side by side test against my trusty V1 but it seems pretty good. I like the way the alert pod is in the way of my wife's view of the speedometer...I don't hear the "ahems" as often
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
i drive an ///M6
would it be or not be better to lower the vehicle's weight signifigantly (i.e. lighter wheels) at 10lbs less/wheel, that lowers the unsprung weight to the equivalent of 400lbs(reciprocating mass) that should increase accelleration somewhat if not signifigantly, no?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: LI, New York
All of them, as much as I can...
Unsprung weight...
saving is one of the best speed mods one can do. It's most effective, though, on lighter cars with smaller engines. Not as noticeable on a 5000 lb. car like the CL. I can hardly tell the difference with the AC on or off, even.
However, when I installed alloy swing arms, alloy brake drums, and alloy wheels on my 1400 lb. Mini, the total 85 lb. I saved made an unbelievable difference in terms of handling and acceleration.
My CL had one bent rim and before buying one OEM replacement for $565, I considered a set of twin-spoke replica alloys that were lighter and the whole set of 4 cost $480! I thought about the potholes in New York and the alloy wheels would just be like butter and get trashed in a few miles. The AMGs are forged and probably ten times stronger.
Sorry for drifting off topic a bit...
However, when I installed alloy swing arms, alloy brake drums, and alloy wheels on my 1400 lb. Mini, the total 85 lb. I saved made an unbelievable difference in terms of handling and acceleration.
My CL had one bent rim and before buying one OEM replacement for $565, I considered a set of twin-spoke replica alloys that were lighter and the whole set of 4 cost $480! I thought about the potholes in New York and the alloy wheels would just be like butter and get trashed in a few miles. The AMGs are forged and probably ten times stronger.
Sorry for drifting off topic a bit...
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 7
From: NY
SL65 AMG
In response to your question, In the event that a dealer gives your CL600 a factory update, there is a slight chance they could overwrite the Powerchip tuned file. If this happens, Powerchip can re-flash your computer after initial purchase for a $50.00 reflash fee. However with Mercedes-Benz, this rarely happens.
Let me know if you have any further questions and I hope to talk with you soon. Have a great day.
Kind Regards, ...
Let me know if you have any further questions and I hope to talk with you soon. Have a great day.
Kind Regards, ...
-V
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 934
Likes: 2
From: Boston
NSX
Originally Posted by ICEAMG
would it be or not be better to lower the vehicle's weight signifigantly (i.e. lighter wheels) at 10lbs less/wheel, that lowers the unsprung weight to the equivalent of 400lbs(reciprocating mass) that should increase accelleration somewhat if not signifigantly, no?
Its definitely good to reduce weight (and definitely bad to add it)... But there is also definitely some horsepower to be had in the non-TT V12 with some ignition timing changes. The factory curves seem to be very conservative. Also it is not NEARLY as dangerous to raise this curb in the N/A motor as the TT motor. I do think if you are going to fool with it, let someone do it that knows what they are doing and gives you clear data and specs. The only one I know that does is Renntech. Their upgrade for the NA V12 car is fairly worthwhile, just a little pricey. They also told me they tested various exhaust systems on this car and made little gains, only more noise. There is a big jump in responsiveness with the ECU upgrade.
