Vendetta

"...that is the question."

Hey friends,

I'm seeking some experienced advice here. The conventional wisdom would be that chipping a car would enhance performance at the cost of efficiency, yet I've read several posts indicating that many chippers see better fuel economy. Is this true?

Also, not that I've some pressing need for it, but chips remove the speed limitation - correct? Is this limit 135 or 155? My experiences this past weekend (the car stopped pulling at about 130, then only crept higher) tell me it's the former, but I thought it was the latter.

I've no interest in doing any serious modifications to the car, such as "real" engine work or suspension modifications. But I thought a chip might be a worthwhile investment. That, and a K&N filter, which I can't seem to locate for this vehicle, I'm not sure one exists.

So please chime in here if you have some experience? It's really appreciated.

-V

S_kLaSse

I am about to chip mine too, probably next week. for 2003 up, it will have approximately 90 hp gain. But for 2002 down, it will have 28 hp gain for 91 octane and 36 hp for 93 octane.

techbike

I too just spoke to the Evosport folks regarding their "Powerchip". $1190! for some 38 hp gain. I also have a call out to Upsolute but haven't gotten a response back. They advertise around $400. I'm not hell bent on it because the CL600 feels good as is. I chipped my E430 via Upsolute and in combination with a K&N swap, must have gained about 20 horses. Measured with my G Tech Pro over 8-10 runs, my 0-60 was cut by .6 secs. average. Which is pretty good. I did it at 2000 miles on the odometer. At around 22000 miles, I had to replace both catalytic converters (under warranty) as they started to rattle; perhaps due to the changed fuel/air ratio or mixture(rich). The cool thing about Upsolute is that they take your orig. chip, download the specific data and e-mail it to Stuttgart, then they analyze and remap, then e-mail back the new data, and the tech burns it to your original chip. In effect, all VIN, and warranty-sensitive info on the computers - is retained.

So what other chips are available? Can we compile data and maybe get a group buy??

Vendetta

I spent some time last night reading through Powerchip's site. Seems they took no shortcuts in building a nice website to explain everything and instill confidence. By contrast, I checked out Jetchip and Upsolute and was less impressed. Jetchip I'd go with if I had a monster truck, and Upsolute, well I don't know 'cause the site's pretty much in German only. (Which is kinda cool, eh? Haa.) Looking at the performance gains strictly in terms of percentages, Powerchip edges out Jet and Upsolute. And they make a lot of noise about how it's not just at WOT where you see the gains. It's important to maintain every day driveability and finesse. So this approach, combined with their professionalism, I'd be more comfy going with Powerchip.

Short of someone with authority telling me it's a bad idea and here are the reasons why I shouldn't chip the car, I'm up for a group buy.

-V

AMG2GO

If you talk to Renntech, they will tell you that the chip upgrade is possibly dangerous, and that the numbers are overhyped.... they do a whole computer upgrade and its $3k for the non turbo car, more for the TT.

Messing with a car's A/F ratios and ignition curves is really risky business. Like you said, I might try a chip in my Chevy, I am not sure I would do it in my CL600. Your warranty is essentialy void with any of these upgrades if they find out.

I really don't know enough about the chips... but do you really have that kind of faith in these guys? guys that make chips for like 100 different cars? I would certainly trust Renntech a lot more, but even that makes me slightly uncomfortable. I might consider a group buy on a Renntech upgrade only. I just don't trust the chips. I don't want to ruin my 80K car with some cheap upgrade.

Vendetta

No doubt in my mind that Renntech would be the optimal choice for the enthusiast. Honestly though? I'm not tyring to go nuts with performance upgrades. To me, the ideal solution would get my car to perform to the higher standards it could if it were not to be subjected to abuse or neglect, like crappy oil and low-octane fuel. I'm sure there's a lot of upside potential that remains untapped by the factory programming in anticipation of the cars' being treated and maintained to lower standards. The chipsters claim to tap this potential, which is why I'd rather take that route than swap whole modules of the car's labarynthine electronic management system. Of course, the performance gained does not approach that of more involved upgrades, but it's the "more involved" part I'd rather avoid in the first place.

So bringing it back to the question, should I/we chip or not? If not, then fine and I'll "suffer" the factory performance of CL600 - haa. If yes, then cool, I think I'd go with Powerchip (lots of Eurocars in their testimonials pages).

-V

Ooof, I just read this page: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters090.htm (scroll to the bottom). Perhaps chipping ain't such a good idea after all, but I welcome - encourage, even - anyone with real experience here to chime in.

techbike

The more I think about it, the significant gain I got on my E430 was probably due to the K&N filters. Perhaps the chip added a few but at the possible cost of 2 cat converters, I'm leary about compromising the CL, especially since I'm on an extended 3rd party warranty program now.

I drove out east today, 150 miles round trip and The CL was NOT wanting of power. The smoothness, driveability, and general solid comfort is something I don't think I'd want to jeopardize.

Vendetta

Ah, Rt. 27 East towards South Hampton... I was there this Sunday and can completely relate to what you're saying. I wish they'd nix the spped limit on the LIE from exit 67 on east, also. It would take some of the tension out of driving at speed - only when there's no one around, mind you. Tail lamps come QUICK at triple-digits.

Regarding the chip, yeah, I'm over it. Flash in the pan - for now, leastways. You mentioned your K&N. Is there one for our '01 CL600's? Can't find a part number. Anyone?

-V

AMG2GO

I think you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say. There isn't a chip that taps some hidden potential and an ECU that tries to do a whole lot more. They both try to do the same thing. But one does it right, and the other is mickey mouse.

I did read some technical stuff on the Renntech and feel fairly comfortable with it. Its totally different than a chip. And they say 25-30 RWHP. That will put the engine at close to 400... but the midrange and low end response improve quite a bit. The car just becomes more responsive so although its only 30 horse, it will feel like more. But there is no getting around the 3K price. Might be worth it if you are going to hang on to the car for a while. If not then you are better off saving it and putting it towards your next ride.

techbike

However, I know a K&N dealer in Cali where I get hard 2 find K&Ns for my Minis; I'll ask there.

BTW, re speed on 27, I am fortunate to have discovered another "bonus" on this CL that I stole, A K40 system mounted front and back, hidden behind the front grille and behind the rear valance. The pod & indicators are mounted inside the instrument cluster, just in front of the 80 mph mark. There's also a laser jammer/sensor mounted below the front reg plate, made to look like an EZ Pass transducer. I have to learn the different alert sounds for different bands. I have yet to do a side by side test against my trusty V1 but it seems pretty good. I like the way the alert pod is in the way of my wife's view of the speedometer...I don't hear the "ahems" as often

DarrenCT

would it be or not be better to lower the vehicle's weight signifigantly (i.e. lighter wheels) at 10lbs less/wheel, that lowers the unsprung weight to the equivalent of 400lbs(reciprocating mass) that should increase accelleration somewhat if not signifigantly, no?

techbike

saving is one of the best speed mods one can do. It's most effective, though, on lighter cars with smaller engines. Not as noticeable on a 5000 lb. car like the CL. I can hardly tell the difference with the AC on or off, even.
However, when I installed alloy swing arms, alloy brake drums, and alloy wheels on my 1400 lb. Mini, the total 85 lb. I saved made an unbelievable difference in terms of handling and acceleration.

My CL had one bent rim and before buying one OEM replacement for $565, I considered a set of twin-spoke replica alloys that were lighter and the whole set of 4 cost $480! I thought about the potholes in New York and the alloy wheels would just be like butter and get trashed in a few miles. The AMGs are forged and probably ten times stronger.

Sorry for drifting off topic a bit...

Vendetta

I've read a few posts about some owners getting their ECU's flashed with updates from the dealer, so the question is obvious. I think I'll stick with the car the way it is for now and forego the chip. Like it really needs it anyway?

-V

AMG2GO

I mentioned this tenfold increase in weight when you go from unsprung to sprung, but this is a "typical scenario" thing and not all that accurate. Where you reduce weight matters a lot, for example if you reduce 5 pounds on the outer edge of the wheel it makes a bigger difference in terms of inertia than if the weight is reduced more towards the center of the wheel.

Its definitely good to reduce weight (and definitely bad to add it)... But there is also definitely some horsepower to be had in the non-TT V12 with some ignition timing changes. The factory curves seem to be very conservative. Also it is not NEARLY as dangerous to raise this curb in the N/A motor as the TT motor. I do think if you are going to fool with it, let someone do it that knows what they are doing and gives you clear data and specs. The only one I know that does is Renntech. Their upgrade for the NA V12 car is fairly worthwhile, just a little pricey. They also told me they tested various exhaust systems on this car and made little gains, only more noise. There is a big jump in responsiveness with the ECU upgrade.