Wehrmacht_benz

ok so i bought the lighted door sills from formymercedes.com from jerry. he seems to be a good guy and i dont think this is his fault. so i bought them and paid for them to be installed. they both light up as the door opens at the shop. then a week later the driver side goes out..the guy sends me replacement ones which he tested to work..i pay the guy again(much less) to rip the old one out and put the replacemnet in..they light up at the shop and again an hour later when i get home..then i go out midday and it is out again, not lighting up..now today a day later not only is the driver side still out but so is the passenger side which was lighting up all the time...i thought as long as my passengers get to see a pretty light it will be ok..anyone know why they wouldnt be lighting up, should i ask for my money back?

raymond g-

how certain are you that it's the light/product is flawed...say, vs installation?

Wehrmacht_benz

i dont know..i just find it odd they worked for a long time then went out..so it must have been installed correctly they just gave out..the audio shop who installed them seem to be very knowledeable....but really who knows....its just so obnoxious

sped

As long as you have a warranty keep taking it back, or just watch the girls wash the car a couple of times.
Ed

Wehrmacht_benz

haha...the guy said the door sills should only be wired to 1.4 volts not 12...does anybody see how this is possible considering it is all 12 volts..so he says i must be blowing the thing up.

raymond g-

i've worked on motorcycle and car electrics for yrs. there should be no
presumption that just because it has performed well for some time, that the
installation was solid. with electrics (and electronics) the weak point the
majority of the time is at a connection or junction. be it cold solders, weak
connections, pinched connections etc, they all have a hand in contributing
to common ailment: premature failure.

so unless Jerry can verify other reports of premature failure with the product,
I'd give your install another go round of measurements. it's great that he's
standing behind his sale and given you a replacement. but i'd check resistance
and voltage readings to see if you can spot potential source of problem.

just thought of another idea: toss in an inline fuse while you're at it and
go with low amperage to start off. if it's going to blow, at least it will in-
dicate something askew upstream. that may help narrow down the problem
and possible save blowing out the transformer or light array in the process.

it's a bummer to have to isolate these problems. electric/tronic troubleshoot-
ing such gremlins are a pain the the a$$ and is a trial n error, pete n repeat
thing. this is where fusing things (or circuit breaker) technique helps quite
a bit.

i had a Kaw 650cc motorcycle which occasionally would blow the main fuse.
turns out that after 2 yrs of off/on again, i happened to see a glint in the
main wiring harness during a detailing of the bike. the sunlight just happened
to show bare wire which had rubbed against the backbone of the frame.
the vibration, over months, wore out the insulation. periodically it would
contact GROUND and short...blowing the fuse.

long story short (pun intended) you can never conclude anything with
electronics, especially after making mods to stock electrical system.
trust me on this one. after 20 yrs of bike/car mods, even my own
meticulous wiring is suspect.

sped

I still have to install mine, but while looking at them I saw an inline resistor in the wiring. You may want to check this out. I will install them as soon as the weather cools down a bit, 110 is a little too hot to work even with the portable cooler in the garage. By the look of the small size of wiring I would say they are correct on the voltage, to bad they never told you of this sooner.
Ed

Wehrmacht_benz

thanks guys...but answer me this....how can you wire it to 1.4 volts if its all 12 volts on the cl...haha you cant..so is this a product that is impossible to use...im very confused here.

sped

Like I just told you, mine has a resistor in line. It drops the voltage to whatever is needed to make the system work. Ohms law will work to figure out the resistance needed. I can't remember what the formula is but maybe someone else can help. I used it in the past to add LEDs (1.5v) to car (12v) circuits in the past, I will look around in my electronic junk to see if I can find the value you need.

Ed

raymond g-

....no resistor is going to change voltage. that must be some kick *** Ohm's
Law. i'm guessing you just got the names mixed up. i've also read on this
forum the label 'ballast'. it's not that, either.

changing voltage is the job for a transformer.

generally there is going to be a little cube (transformer) for each illuminated sill.
pkged 2 for coupe and 4 for sedan.

the prognosis doesn't make sense. if you did have the sills wired up AND you
indeed utilized the accompanying transformers, it likely stepped the voltage
from 12vdc down to the operating voltage of 1.4v. had you inadvertently
skipped the transformers, it would have blown right away and not worked for,
as you say, a long time.

take a line reading downwind of the transformer and report back. if the little
cubes are still working, they should be putting out 1.4vac. if they're not, they
are either going to read 0.

then, the next step is to try and figure out what caused them to go TU

sped

Raymond does not know what he is talking about, I have built these resistor projects in the past with success.

Ed

raymond g-

okay, Sped....yoo duh man....

btw, since you're obviously more experienced here, how does a resistor
change voltage from 12 to 1.4 volts? also, since the EL panel functions
in AC, how does the resistor invert the line voltage from DC to AC ??

sped

Dough!!...is more like it,

I really am not versed in electronics more of trial and error. I did take the heatshrink off my set and tested the resistor. The resistor is a 1/4 amp with 177.8 ohms resistance and a tolerance of 10%, Radio Shack has these little buggers but you may have to buy a pack of them. They probably will not have the exact value just get the closest one to it. This works as a dropping resistor, 12 volts go in and 3.3 come out of the other side (after the resistor). The resistor is located on the positive (red) wire just before the black clip that snaps the wire circuit together. You will need to install one for each side.

I choose not have both panels light up together, I only want the one on that accompanies the door that is open. The harness for my sills is wired so they both light up when a door is open. I would have to run a wire from one side of the car to the other to hook it up the way it is now. All that is necessary is to cut the red wire that joins the two.

I have the sill powered-up on my bench as we speak and it is working fine.

I hope this helps you out,

Ed

Wehrmacht_benz

i really do not understand half this electrical talk here but i am going back into the shop on monday maybe i can relay him some of these thoughts.

no_clue

Can you take detail picture of your sill?
Including the color code of buildin resistor?
How many LED involved etc?

Converting 12V to 1.4V is not hard, but it also depending on how does those LED connected. (parallel or serial)

Here is easily way to understand....

If a LED has max voltage tolerance of 1.5V.
then.... IF connected under "serial manner", 12V can light up 8 LED w/out any resistor. (1.5V X 8 = 12V )
=====================================

If under "parallel manner or single LED", then each 1.5V LED (assuming standard 20mA - forward current -design)

Formula is simple as (12V-1.5) / 20mA = 0.525 Watt
(this mean the LED using/ power dissapate about 1/2Watt)

Watts = Volts * Amps
0.525W/12v=.044amp
Volts = Amps * Ohms
12v/.044 amp =272 ohms (since there is no 272 ohm resistor, then you can go HIGHER to 300ohm resistor)

So enable for 12V to go down to 1.5V, you need to buy 300ohm, 1/2Watt resistor)

====================================

p.s. LED has very low heat tolerance. (if I remembered correctly back on 1991, LED will fail once surface temperature reach 60C , that's (F-32)*9/5=C, hence 140F
If you park your car under the sun during the summer, metal can easily transfer heat beyound 140F.

=====================================

p.p.s. LED mA is also depends on the MCD output.
Higher the MCD, higher the mA.
Typical 5mm LED w/ 3000 MCD has max 20 mA that has operating voltage between 1.7V to 2.4V.

raymond g-

the illum sills marketed by Jerry utilize electro luminescent lighting. these are
very simple, organic light panels which are extremely flexible (literally as well
as figuratively) in use and contruction. AC power is applied to wires, which in
turn, excites the phosphor.

the Jerry kits also have small 12vdc inverters (one for each sill) which does
combo task of dropping line voltage down from 12vdc...as well as converting
to AC. brightness of the EL can be changed through the selection of invertors
with different frequencies.
EL lighting comes in wire, rope, sheets...in a variety of colors. you can easily
cut the EL sheet and size to fit your application. they're inexpensive.

i'm most intrigued by the wire/rope ELs and will be experimenting with these
for other applications (i dunno, inside the headlight.....in the cabin....) as
long as it keeps the MB look (and not Honda)

blahzayblah - good news is that if you discover that the installation was
flawed, just Google for replacement parts. you may be able to replace all
the active parts for +- $30.

(so sped and I were going back n forth ....it's possible that he has LED
sills vs my experience with Jerry's sills which use EL)

sped

(so sped and I were going back n forth ....it's possible that he has LED
sills vs my experience with Jerry's sills which use EL)
__________________
raymond-
47º34'N 122º18'W


I have the EL also, not LED. I had mine on the bench and tested it for about 6hours and had no problems. All it did was get a little warm around the resistor.

I am not sure how it all works but it does. I had a nightlite EL go bad so I took it apart. There was nothing in there but the EL and two prongs to get 120 volts.

So Raymond, you live in Seattle? I plugged your coordinates 47º34'N 122º18'W into my Mapsource. I'll bet it is nice and cool up there, it was 115 here today.

Regards,
Ed

raymond g-

ELs operate only under AC which is why a inverter isn't needed in the night
light. EL was simply speced for 120+-.

ironically, auto alternators produce AC to begin with, which in turn, is clipped
to DC. but in the case of ELs, a driver/inverter is needed to flip it back to AC
before the phospor can be excited to induce a glow. (does this mean fireflies
and deep sea critters operate on AC? :-)

here are several places i shopped around in trying to secure parts for
experimenting....

http://www.beingseen.com/flatlite.html
http://www.elwirecheap.com/index.html
http://www.coolight.com/Default.asp

it is 89ºF in my office....chiller part being rushed in. sucker better get
here or i'm going to take a nap. but even at 90º something, it's still
a whole lot better than living in CA or parts of ECoast right now. my
sister is in Carson CIty and she is grumbling also.

Wehrmacht_benz

apparently i had a better shot letting some of you install them, you all seem to be very knowledgeable...the man at the shop tested all the voltage today and everything is pointing to the unit being bad...i am going to ask jerry for one more replacement...

raymond g-

from the looks of things, sped, no_clue and I could probably wire that puppy
for you and.....have it flashing in sync to your tunes in no time.

Wehrmacht_benz

i am being sent one last replacement...i am very nervous...if it goes out this time im going to be pissed...i am hoping third times a charm

Wehrmacht_benz

also wasnt there a guy on here that turned his sl into a rolling light show...i remember he posted pics of what he did..redick

Whodat

Hate to sound like a dummy but what's EL?

Couldn't this be a pinched wire (incurred possibly DURING installation)? I've seen pinched wires take components out.
Did you see the installation guide (they use a w208 for demonstration) on the formymercedes.com site? I want some of these but want to talk to people (electrician types) before trying this.

Wehrmacht_benz

well guys i have recieved my final replacement....i am wondewring if i should take it to a different guy..i want it to work so bad

raymond g-

hey, b....welcome back! (just noticed)