beacham

come on, give us some news!

shanusanus

amazingly...... no news yet no.

I picked up the car thursday last week - now all my drivers chair works - elecs and heated seat but they still didnt manage to fix the passenger side chair\heater and even tho they said theyve fixed the sat nav it stil thinks im in manchester when Im in London!!! bloody typical.

as regards the windows - nothing from MB c\s and nothing from MB Manchester who sold me the car. I will be chasing up this week making calls etc - only got back from Venice today tho.

Dont worry - im gonna keep on thsi one!

shanusanus

Ok so - CL goes back in yet again tomoz to MB Tonbridge. They will be fixing the passenger seat completely and taking yet another look at the comand unit. Its now on its 3rd unit and still the sat nav doesnt work.

when I was up in Scotland a MB dealer up there plugged it in and said that there was no speed pulse from the TCU hence why the sat nav wasnt playing ball. MB Tonbridge ignored this and just replaced the unit and guess what it didnt work - so back in we go.

I also have to pay that £250 excess on the courtesy B class crap car for being hit from behind by a truck - ive been told by MB that even though the accident wasnt my fault I cant claim the £250 back!! how bad is that?

And lastly - and most importantly after this time round I should finally get word back about the windows - MB have not called me directly nor has MB Manchester (the selling dealership) called. so im gonna chanse MB Tonbridge and make it there issue - hopefully they wil deal with it - although the fcat thyved had my car in approx 8 weeks now and still havnt fully fixed my issues doesnt give too much hope does it!!

I hate to say this cause since leaving school Ive always had Mercs - but after seeing how reliable my wifes Jag is, that my BMW Z3 has never had one fault and that the 2 audis I'd had were fault free too al through the 4 year owbership - im seriously thinking of changing marque now - im sooooo fed up with 1: MB cars constantly going wrong and 2: the terrible service I get when I go in for warrenty work.

AMWebby

Maybe Beacham and I, and any others, should join forces with you on approaching BBC Watchdog re the windows?

beacham

that really is bad service, i would not be happy either. have you complained to head office?

shanusanus

This may be a good idea guys

They have my car again now for another week or so - ill let you know how I get on.

shanusanus

I HAVE A LETTER!! From MB Germany Customer Service

And it aint good. Basically they are saying NO GOODWILL due to age of car.

BUt I do have a name - Gillian Ong - she was the case manager - so now im going back to consumer direct and let them deal directly with MB.

Ive also decided that after my 2 years warrenty is up its no more Mercs for me. It pains me to say that but the last 4 Mercs I have had have been nothing but issues - most dealt with under warrenty but its just the annoyance and inconvinience and 'attitude' you get from the dealerships - its too much.

Im guessing an AUDI S5 will be my next car in 2 years time.

Until Merc get their act together with regards customer service - im not putting any more cash in their pockets. Ive had enough

Jud Chapin

Sorry to hear they won't take care of you. I think you're making the right move, though, in staying away from Benz on your next car purchase. I plan on doing the same.

AMWebby

I got a similar letter. No mention of goodwill and they have repaired 'body perforation' problems under my 30 year mobilio life warranty.

What they did say was glass wasn't covered, which they're quite right, it isn't.

My point, and the one that the Consumer Direct view supports, is that it is a manufacturing defect and, as such, is not fit for purpose.

The thought does occur that we might be better off taking this up with Pilkington direct. They are the ones Mercedes-Benz would look to if there were to entertain a claim anyway. Maybe we need to cut out the middleman?

AmaSeller

Hmm I think the front command only reads NAV DISKS

TO Read Cd's you need to put it into the rear CD changer.

AMWebby

Any news from Consumer Direct?

AMWebby

Just been looking around my local MB showroom and I noticed that all the models with double-glazing had St Gobain glass. The only Pilkington glass was on some regular units.

If Mercedes-Benz has stopped using Pilkington for double-glazed units that makes our task harder. Pilkington, with whom the ultimate resonsibility lies here, are not going to pay someone to fit St Gobain units.

Vendetta

Actually, I think that MB abandoning Pilkington for double-glaze units, if truly the case, would only make our case stronger insofar as it is tantamout to admitting fault and therefore liability.

PS: Sorry I'm late to the party.

AMWebby

Yes, but No, but yes.The problem is that glass is specifically excluded from any MB warranty I've come across.

It may well be a manufacturing fault, in which case the claim is with Pilkington, not MB, even if MB is the 'broker'. That brings us to the scenario I've described above.

If MB have abandoned the use of Pilkington units it could just as easily be for cost as quality.

I've asked a colleague, who currently has Pilkington doing some very specialised and expensive automotive work for him, to get us some inside information.

Vendetta

On paper, sure - they can deny fault all day long and use that paper to diminish individuals' spirit in persuing a claim. But that's where consumer advocacy groups, juries, and sometimes even reasonable minds at MB can inderdict.

If I'm an objective observer, and a reasonable mind, and I'm sitting on a jury or in an arbitor's role and I see lots of faults from a vendor that MB dropped, then I would assume the faults were the primary reason. If MB claims price, then I'd seek discovery of the financials. No matter what reason they claim, it'll be an ugly mess of discovery, legalese, bad faith and worse publicity for themselves AND the vendor.

Getting serious - and I mean actually following through - with legal action or consumer advocacy groups could be the only way to get this addressed in anything but a case-by-case basis.

EDIT: Regarding going direct to Pilkington, I doubt that would be fruitful in any way whatsoever. We, even as MB owners, have absolutely ZERO consumer/vendor relationship with them. MB must be held accountable as they are the final vendor. It's there prerogative alone whether to bring action against Pilkington.

AMWebby

All valid points, although I never advocated going to Pilkington direct.

So, are you another owner with faulty double-glazing to add to our group of disgruntled consumers?

shanusanus

So far I havnt gotten anywhere directly with Mercedes. Mercedes direct C\S including direct communication from Germany has ended with them saying that the MB dealership that sold me the car should never have sold me it in the condition it was in. They have washed their hands of it and pointed me to the Service Manager at MB Manchester. SO I called him with the weight of a letter which specifically states that a car should be sold 'without defect' unless specifically stated BEFORE purchase. Obviously my car was bought via the internet from Mercedes Manchester and they delivered it at night so it wasnt until the next morning that we saw the seriousness of the window situation. Anyway - he said that it doesnt affect MOT so he was unwilling to help and said that I would have to take the matter up with my solicitor and take them to court basically. Now after speaking with my solicitor I would be looking at approx £500 - £1000 in total spend to get his forced to court etc. Now with the fact that I've had to spend so far £700 on new coil packs and HT leads (and still my CL shakes at idle damn it) I really havnt got cash lying around to worry about the windows at present. So yes MB win in the end as ill go away and never take them on cause I just dont have the cash.

Since leaving school in 1991 - I have had 11 Mercs now - the last 5 have been nothing but trouble. Even with a full Merc warrenty it dowsnt make up for the fact that their cars are ridiculously always having faults. To be honest when my 2 year warrenty is up on the CL I will NEVER be buying another Merc again. i ve had enough and as I have said afew times on here I will be going probably to Audi getting either a 3 year old R8 or possibly a newer S5. But I cannot stress enough - IT WILL NOT BE A MERC. Shame cause I really HAD a fondness for their cars before. But enough is enough.

Vendetta

I've got a 2001 CL600 and I've noticed the little bubbles on the rear edge of the driver/passenger windows for some time now. Strangely enough ('cause I'm usually obsessive about little details), it didn't really concern me too much. Now that I'm reading that it's a "known issue," I'll have to re-evaluate my position on the matter.

For me it's a matter of trading one problem for another, or "upsetting the apple cart" if you will. Do I really want to cash in on any good will I might get with my dealer to fix what is - to me, anyway - a barely noticeable purely cosmetic issue? And If I do, and they agree to fix it, do I really want them tearing my doors apart to perform the fix? To me that spells potential for more offensive issues like rattles and electrical quirks. To this point I've kept it in my pocket and can bring it out as a herring to leverage with should a different problem surface.

So yeah, you can definitely count me in as an owner with faulty double glazing, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm disgruntled.

I'm sorry if it appeared I was saying you said to go after Pilkington direct, I know you weren't. It was more of an afterthought for the forum at large, as it was being mentioned by a couple of others.

I'l be watching this thread to see what comes of it. I'll be glad to throw my hat - and my VIN - in the ring if someone grabs the ball and runs it with the intention of getting the problem addressed geographically.

Ciao for now, and good luck!
-V

AMWebby

The really annoying thing is we know of two vehicles in the US where this issue has been addressed by MB. I know they're got better laws covering consumers rights but I'm currently reading everything I can find about rights in the UK. Ultimately I suspect Watchdog is probably the only route that might have some effect, as suggested earlier in this thread.

shanusanus

Yes I agree - Watchdog would be great for this I think.

AMWebby

Hang on a minute, do you have that in writing? Surely that is an admission frm MB that this is a defect that should not appear on a car sold by them or one of their dealers?

They may be trying to pass it off on the dealer but, if I read what you say correctly, it is an admission that the car is not fit for purpose.

Vendetta

Web, I think perhaps their statement goes beyond just the glass issue and covers all the other items on his punchlist. Just my guess, but...

If they refer to the glass specifically, then yeah, that's a phenomenal catch: written admission of defect.

I would submit that as "Exhibit A" at any hearing or arbitration.

Good luck.
-V

AMWebby

Shanusanus? Do you have the communication from them? Is it specifically referring to the glass, or the glass in a list of defects?

shanusanus

Hi all, Ive checked the wording of the letter. Yes we were specifically talking about the Glass as I have not complained to MB C\S about any other matter.

The wording is that MB themselves would not entertain a gesture of goodwill due to the age of the car. However they contacted MB Manchester to see what the dealership would do. They declined any help as well. So I wrote back and said I was not happy with that - as Consumer Direct state specifically that a car should be sold without defect unless advised BEFORE purchase. In this case MB Manchester fell foul of that statement. As said, they didnt tell me when I bought the car via MB website and delivered the car late at night so we couldnt see the windows condition. I also mentioned exactly what the glass was like - that it had split and water had got between the glasses and left a stained unsightly mark. I even sent in photos so they could see what it was. Anyway, I then get a letter back from MB C\S Germany saying that they hadnt realised the damage and that still they were unwilling to do anything due to the age of the car BUT that MB Manchester should look at this matter and gave me a direct number for the service manager at Manchester. Upon calling him he said that it would not fail MOT so in his eyes he would do nothing and I would have to take legal action.

SO - MB C\S havnt directly said in the letter that its all MB Manchesters fault. But my comments on a previous post was a direct written statement from Consumer Direct - 'a car should be sold WITHOUT defect unless advised to the buyer BEFORE purchase'.

Both Consumer Direct and my solicitor feel we need to sue Mb Manchester but as I said the costs involved are out of my reach at this stage.

In my case what I have got in my favour is that I bought it from Mercedes Manchester - not soem guy down teh road. They sold that car to me KNOWING it had this problem and yet kept quiet hoping I'd let it go. But even though Consumer Direct say they have broken trading law they wont take it on - they will give me support but ultimately I have to take MB to court. I just cant afford it at this stage. Im bitter about this and wish I was made of money just to prove teh point but in the real world I am not.

Its real SH*T and as said has put me right of Mercedes. Liek they care about my £25K purchase every 2 years though hey!

AMWebby

Would you mind PMing me a copy of that correspondence?