Speedriven V12 Tuning Sale
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 36
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2005 e55 amg
The only other option I found was this:
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/628
5500$ seems like quite a lot for intakes? Do they make much difference?
Last edited by bluto; Nov 26, 2012 at 02:17 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
That's a good question. I think the hood needs louvers near the uppermost intake and it needs some type of surround to isolate it away from the hot air in the engine bay so it pulls cooler outside air. On the lower one near the front, it needs something that isolates it to pull the air from the front of the car.
Sucking in all that hot air when you are going down the road has a huge negative impact on your HP. For every 10 degrees of intake temps, you are costing yourself 1% in HP. If the underhood air is 200+ degrees, your power is going to be around 20% lower due to the excessive heat.
Dyno with the hood down on the first run so it will simulate driving down the road sucking in the hot air of the engine bay. Next, let the car sit for a few minutes and dyno with the hood open. You should see a big difference in power.
The heat exchangers are not large enough to compensate for the increased underhood temps. You are sucking in 200 degree air that is being further heated by the by the turbos and effect of compressing the air. I feel, if you tweek the intake to get fresh air, it will make much more power in real world driving. Or, you could drive around with the hood off the car.
Sucking in all that hot air when you are going down the road has a huge negative impact on your HP. For every 10 degrees of intake temps, you are costing yourself 1% in HP. If the underhood air is 200+ degrees, your power is going to be around 20% lower due to the excessive heat.
Dyno with the hood down on the first run so it will simulate driving down the road sucking in the hot air of the engine bay. Next, let the car sit for a few minutes and dyno with the hood open. You should see a big difference in power.
The heat exchangers are not large enough to compensate for the increased underhood temps. You are sucking in 200 degree air that is being further heated by the by the turbos and effect of compressing the air. I feel, if you tweek the intake to get fresh air, it will make much more power in real world driving. Or, you could drive around with the hood off the car.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 290
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From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
I always thought intakes were about air flow, intercoolers are about temperature. There is always a trade-off between the smaller amount of cooler air and larger amount of hot air and, based on my own tests/research, later wins HP battle.
Igor.
Igor.
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
There should not be a trade off when talking about performance and maximizing your HP. You want to eliminate the weak points in an intake and getting hot air from the engine bay is a huge weak point. The cooler air you have coming in the cooler it will be going into the engine. The intercooler can only cool it so much. When you start with air that is 100+ degrees hotter than ambiant, you will have hotter air going into the engine.
I'm not knocking the system; rather, I'm giving ideas how it could be improved to maximize power. Take it for what it is. Nothing more - nothing less.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 290
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
We are on the same page. The reason for trade-off is that I am unaware of aftermarket MB intakes that will actually use outside air. You get the flow with aftermarket intakes, but you also get a hotter air.
Those who had their vehicles tuned at my shop know that I usually recommend high-flow OEM fit filters sucking outside air instead of aftermarket intakes sucking air from inside the engine compartment. And yes, intakes are about the flow, but can intercoolers keep up with the hot air sucked by really high-flow intakes is the other question...
For those wondering about my own V12TT setup, it is exactly what I said - tune, cooler air (pump and oversized head exchanger) and OEM fit high-flow filters. Couple people on this board drove my V12 car and were really impressed - I would appreciate if they speak-up. Bottom line is it is not all about tune, intercoolers or intakes, it is a combination. I spent lots of time doing my own research when I started working with SpeedRiven. I am now in the process of doing the same with another company as I cannot get any parts or support from Marcin. And yes, I am testing on my own vehicles...
Igor.
Those who had their vehicles tuned at my shop know that I usually recommend high-flow OEM fit filters sucking outside air instead of aftermarket intakes sucking air from inside the engine compartment. And yes, intakes are about the flow, but can intercoolers keep up with the hot air sucked by really high-flow intakes is the other question...
For those wondering about my own V12TT setup, it is exactly what I said - tune, cooler air (pump and oversized head exchanger) and OEM fit high-flow filters. Couple people on this board drove my V12 car and were really impressed - I would appreciate if they speak-up. Bottom line is it is not all about tune, intercoolers or intakes, it is a combination. I spent lots of time doing my own research when I started working with SpeedRiven. I am now in the process of doing the same with another company as I cannot get any parts or support from Marcin. And yes, I am testing on my own vehicles...
Igor.
Last edited by AccelToronto; Nov 28, 2012 at 09:49 PM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 290
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
After spending about an hour on the phone with SpeedRiven, I decided to give their IC system a try on my own SL. Apparently, hot air under your hood is only hot if you are standing still. Once you have 15+ MPH speed it does not make a difference where you are sucking your air from. I did prove it last week without their IC - running on dyno with the fans. Will keep you posted how SpeedRiven ICs perform in real life onece it gets a little warmer here in Toronto.
Igor.
Igor.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 36
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2005 e55 amg
Dyno'ing with no fans and hood closed dosnt simulate real world conditions and makes no sense?
Even blowing fans on the car wont be as cooling as driving the car at 60mph?
Or accelerating at speed??? So dyno with fans and hood open makes total sense, dosnt it?
I have the speedriven intercoolers and intakes and i can thrash it in the heat and it dosnt lose power at all. Before i did the intercoolers it would lose power quickly after a few accerations you could feel it dying over 4-5 revs.
Last edited by bluto; Feb 25, 2013 at 09:09 PM.
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Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 883
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From: Finland
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
After spending about an hour on the phone with SpeedRiven, I decided to give their IC system a try on my own SL. Apparently, hot air under your hood is only hot if you are standing still. Once you have 15+ MPH speed it does not make a difference where you are sucking your air from. I did prove it last week without their IC - running on dyno with the fans. Will keep you posted how SpeedRiven ICs perform in real life onece it gets a little warmer here in Toronto.
Igor.
Igor.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 290
Likes: 1
From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
Quick update.
So far I completed muffler delete and Quaife LSD. Just got update from Marcin that he is running behind and my ICs and Downpipes should be here mid-June.
Igor.
So far I completed muffler delete and Quaife LSD. Just got update from Marcin that he is running behind and my ICs and Downpipes should be here mid-June.
Igor.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 883
Likes: 24
From: Finland
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
I have start to install my parts now.... and it's very tight in the engine room..
I hope I'm ready with it tomorrow...
Have ask Marcin few things but he have not answer me yet...
Regards
Juha
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 883
Likes: 24
From: Finland
SL600 / SL450 (107) / E350 / BMW M5 E60 / BMW 745i (E23) / BMW X6M / Toyota Hilux 4 WD/ Honda CBX 10
