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Strutmasters to Yellow Speed Coilover Swap. My experiences
Intro
So time has come to finally replace my Strutmasters coilovers. They did fine, my biggest issue was some rubbing on the inner fender lining in the rear because of my huge 275/30/20 tires, The weight of the CL paired with those huge wheels and tires led to inner fender lining rub over any major bumps, especially with 4 people in the car. I will say, nothing besides some scraping on the replaceable inner plastic fender lining ever really developed on my w215. My rear subframe bushings, control arms etc all look as to be expected on a 16 year old car
My strutmasters units still ride ok but most noticably is a sizable leak on the front strut, and the rubber bushing on the top is clearly deteriorating. My second biggest issue was the ride height with strutmasters. Not as complementary as when i bought the car lowered through ABC suspension. For the sacrifice in reliability from the ABC system, the rubbing in the rear fender liner and the ride height were perfectly manageable issues in my opinion
Decision Time
I considered 3 companies for my next coilovers, non-adjustable such as the strutmasters was just not an option, I wanted to have a lowered stance for the car while being able to keep my 20's...
I called Strutmasters before I made any decisions. I asked if they had a lifetime warranty on their coilovers, they said the warranty was only one year. Here's where I started getting disappointed with Strutmasters -
I asked the sales rep if they had fixed the issues with ride height for the W215 Benz coilover kit, she said they had a technical team that was "constantly working to improve their kits, so if there was an issue it was rectified". Having a rough understanding of business logistics I was quite skeptical of this claim. It would make most sense that they bought a huge bulk order of w215 coilovers, and with such small market demand for w215 coilovers, I highly questioned ANYBODY giving any follow up research and development on this product after distribution, LET ALONE re-designing/replacing stock with new coilovers. The bottom line, they are a business and they have inventory to sell, likely a large left over batch of w215 coilovers. The sales rep claimed I could talk to the technical advisor about any technical questions. I told her I wanted to discuss with them the changes to the coilovers, spring rates etc. She became flustered, told me she would have the manager call me back. I never received any calls/voicemails after that... strange
I wanted to give SM another chance but this ordeal proves to me they acknowledge some ride height issues (they claim "stock ride height" but im not sure if thats always accurate) yet need to sell old stock before being able to even consider rectifying their kit.
So i moved on, the main three contenders for adjustable CL class coilovers right now seem to be -
C- PB Brakes
WEBSITE IS DOWN ????? (not a good sign in my opinion)
Ordering Process
I couldn't find much definitive knowledge/reviews of the Cieka kit. So I decided on the Yellow Speed kit. I emailed them and asked for 16kg front spring rate and 16kg rear spring rate. They replied "no problem". Distribution and shipping took a couple weeks
Receiving My Order
Yesterday I was very eager to get my new coilovers and finally get that "lowered" stance again for my CL. I started by jacking up the car, removing the rear wheels, and loosening the lower control arm (?) that holds the strut in place. Now is time to disassemble the 13mm nuts holding the rear strut in place. I've read the threads from others on the Yellow Speed Install, seems like this would be a great chance to grease the threads, and some other points on the coilover to ensure long life. I did not take these extra steps with my Strutmasters install and wonder if this led to their failure? Seems likely
This is where things get weird with Yellow Speed-
I opened the box today, I was very excited to get a kit with 16kg front and 16kg rear spring rates. As from my research and help from user Puerto Rick, it seems the 20f/20r spring rates were too stiff, and the 14f/14r spring rates were too soft. I was very excited to try some 16f/16r and see if I could finally find a flawless alternative to suspension for the w215 besides the unreliable ABC. Today I opened the box and I have received 20f/14r spring rates!!!! If I wasn't so eager to finally get some adjustable coilovers on my w215 I would be very upset right now that they did not send me the 16f/16r set. I'd read threads from pmercury where he said he had many issues with their sales team not knowing much about the spring rates/top mounts etc. So I expected some communication issues but I wish they would have just told me they don't make a 16f/16r set, I probably would've ordered the Cieka kit....
Install
Now I'm going to go grease the hell out of the coilovers and see if I can find satisfaction with this set of 20f/14r coilovers. There are many settings options so maybe I'll find something I enjoy. Perhaps I am being too optimistic... Only time, and some wrenching will tell.
Last edited by ctravis595; 12-01-2018 at 04:19 AM.
First install impressions-
install went smoothly. Despite the multiple warnings to install the dampener pins ahead of time in the rear shocks, I still managed to install BOTH rear shocks without the pin lol. The disadvantages to working distracted at 3am lol. So I had to drop the rear struts to re-install the dampener pin.
i used height settings that made the coilovers smaller, so this install was actually a tad easier than installing the strutmasters kit. The only thing that took more time was the grease prep and adjusting the settings.
I used 4" height setting on the rear, and 2 1/2" height setting on the front. I started with 27 clicks from soft on the rear for dampening, and 29 clicks from soft on the front dampening... More on this later
This height setting refers to the distance between the (A)BOTTOM OF THE SPRING COLLAR, to (C)the TOP OF THE STRUT RETAINER. I'm using smartadze's diagram, his trial and error post is 100% of the reason I was able to get satisfactory settings on my first go. Huge thanks to his efforts and write-up on height settings. Here's an example below of the height settings with (a) and (c) -
First drive impression-
Wow, immediately after putting the car in drive, the difference between Strutmasters and Yellow Speed was incredible. Yellow speed seems much more planted, more firm and reactive to the road. It reminded me a lot of how my friends corvette handles. I drove it around the block and decided to pop the hood and adjust the front dampening to 25 clicks from soft. This provided a very firm and stable ride quality, with less of a harsh ride. I attribute most of my harshness to my 20" rims and low profile tires.
The ride quality is very different from Strutmasters. Strutmasters is soft and cushy. While sacrificing desirable ride height, and some rubbing in the rear inner fender lining from big bumps with my 275/30/20's....
I've experienced absolutely NO rubbing with Yellowspeeds, with a much better ride height. I'm very impressed. The car is less of a "smooth luxury car" and more of a sports car now. At 26 years old this is exactly what I'm interested in, firm/lowered suspension, bigger brakes, more horsepower. HOWEVER, if I was 55 years old I could imagine the Yellowspeed firm ride quality is very tiresome, but until then, my choice would be YellowSpeed.
My height at the apex of the rear fenders is 27". The height of the front is 25". These pictures below give the stance a bad impression, its more of a staggered look when its on flat ground
Bottom line- I have only gotten the car up to 60 mph on mostly straight driving, so I have very limited experience on the bounciness at highway speeds that others have discussed. I can see how that could be the case, I emailed Yellow Speed and told them I want the 16kj rear springs we agreed upon. But, Yellow Speed conversion is very much like how the car was with lowered ABC suspension, firm, kinda twitchy over road irregularities. Much more suitable for oversized tires/and a lowered stance. I'm not sure this suspension is suitable for a very very low setup, considering the sheer weight of the car. But for a slightly lowered look, this suspension is great so far. Just a tad firm
Pics below, please excuse the dusty front fenders, missing windshield trim etc. I have just replaced my Lorinser fenders with the OEM fenders as my lorinsers are getting cracks in the fiberglass
Edit- 60-80mph "bouncy" road test
I set out to test the coilovers more rigorously, I now see what everyone is talking about in regards to the bouncy ride at high speeds with the Yellow Speeds. I tried many dampening settings from 18 clicks to 31 clicks, and everywhere in between with very subtle differences. On very uneven bridges the car feels unsafe at speeds over 65 mph. The Strutmasters offered a much more predictable, smooth and safe ride at high speeds. I emailed Yellow speed about sending my the 16kg rear springs like we agreed. I think that may solve the issues at higher speed irregular roads
Last edited by ctravis595; 12-01-2018 at 07:03 PM.
If possible, give the ride heights from the centre of the wheels...this rules out differences which may creep in due to different wheel/tyre combinations.
Last edited by renault12ts; 12-03-2018 at 05:45 AM.
If possible, give the ride heights from the centre of the wheels...this rules out differences which may creep in due to different wheel/tyre combinations.
i will have the total weight of the strutmasters kit once i ship them out sometime this week to a buyer
ill try to remember to get some ride height measurements
update-
since my install i have loosened all pre-load possible from front springs...and my current settings with best results so far have strangely been 100% soft setting in front, and 30 clicks from soft in the rear. basically full soft in the front, and nearly full hard in rear. this lets the front soak up the road irregularities like the strutmasters kit did, and this gives the safest "feel" at high speed bumps/bounciness
still unhappy with the bounciness at high speeds and may have to return this kit if Yellow speed cannot find any 16 or 18kg rear springs for this car. I think 20/20kg will be too stiff. it's already pretty stiff with 20kg/14kg spring rates.
however i am very happy with the new ride height/lack of rubbing in rear with this low of a ride height. the car looks great, handles very well at low speeds/cornering. its just a little too bouncy at high speeds
Yes I removed all preload possible from the fronts,this paired with setting dampener to softest seems to give the best ride
in the rear I have not changed anything besides dampener settings, which are currently at 3 clicks from fully shut. So I have very firm rear, very soft front. The 20kg springs in the front make up for the soft settings
this is the safest settings I’ve been able to get with my ride height. Safe in regards to bounciness at high speed road irregularities
i havent adjusted the rear, yellow speed said they would send me a set of 16kg springs to try in the rear. I hope they’re being truthful because the rear just needs the slightest bit of reinforcement I believe
they said the 14kg rear springs I have are progressive springs, from what I’ve researched on the matter I don’t think this Is the case
Yes I removed all preload possible from the fronts,this paired with setting dampener to softest seems to give the best ride
in the rear I have not changed anything besides dampener settings, which are currently at 3 clicks from fully shut. So I have very firm rear, very soft front. The 20kg springs in the front make up for the soft settings
this is the safest settings I’ve been able to get with my ride height. Safe in regards to bounciness at high speed road irregularities
i havent adjusted the rear, yellow speed said they would send me a set of 16kg springs to try in the rear. I hope they’re being truthful because the rear just needs the slightest bit of reinforcement I believe
they said the 14kg rear springs I have are progressive springs, from what I’ve researched on the matter I don’t think this Is the case
I guess I was trying to figure out what the preload on your rear springs was but it sounds like you are not sure as you have not move it from factory settings. As you may remember from the other thread, I originally ordered 20kg for front and back but determined they were too stiff and caused them to be too bouncy because they would not let the shock portion damper do it's job. So, I ordered the 14kg springs and they did not do the job a lot better. So, I have tried so many different variations of spring rates, preload and damper settings, that I feel frustrated at this time. My front seems to behave but I just can't seem to get the back to behave at higher speeds or big dips in the road...still too bouncy. I wanted to try your latest settings but, needed the preload settings for the back. If you get a chance and can measure the distance from the bottom of the top perch to the bottom of the bottom perch while the coilover hangs freely from the top mount, it would give me a hint to the preload setting. I believe between us all, we can figure this out.
Yes I agree, I believe through trial and error we will find the best settings
the problem with comparing data between your W220 and our w215’s is that the design is pretty different, user Puerto Rick pointed this out to me.
The w215 wheel placement on the chassis leads to a peculiar setup, the heavy C pillar roof on the W215 lands right on top of the rear wheels. This, paired with the large amount of the frame/subframe/body hanging off the back of the car(compared to most other cars like the w220, jaguar etc) leads me to believe we have different needs for the w220 vs w215
basically what I’m saying is that the rear suspension on the W215 probably handles most of the weight of the W215 because of the rear wheels being so forward. The w220 has a more typical setup, where each suspension strut is at each far corner of the chassis. The W215 basically sits on the rear wheels, and the engine weight is half of what keeps the front end planted on the ground
to answer your question, I still have stock settings for my rear preload. I’ll measure them when I change to 16kg springs
Yes I agree, I believe through trial and error we will find the best settings
the problem with comparing data between your W220 and our w215’s is that the design is pretty different, user Puerto Rick pointed this out to me.
The w215 wheel placement on the chassis leads to a peculiar setup, the heavy C pillar roof on the W215 lands right on top of the rear wheels. This, paired with the large amount of the frame/subframe/body hanging off the back of the car(compared to most other cars like the w220, jaguar etc) leads me to believe we have different needs for the w220 vs w215
basically what I’m saying is that the rear suspension on the W215 probably handles most of the weight of the W215 because of the rear wheels being so forward. The w220 has a more typical setup, where each suspension strut is at each far corner of the chassis. The W215 basically sits on the rear wheels, and the engine weight is half of what keeps the front end planted on the ground
to answer your question, I still have stock settings for my rear preload. I’ll measure them when I change to 16kg springs
I agree with the assessment of the difference in cars however, I have not found anyone that seems to be really happy with their set up from YSR at faster speeds regardless of chassis. The more I experiment, the more I'm starting to think that the rear shock just is not valved right to support the proper spring whatever that might be. Meaning, that it does not allow for enough damping. Recently, I put the 20kg springs on the rear once more and played with a variety of preload with no great success. Actually, still too bouncy which is why I'm now questioning whether the spring is the issue or the shock valving and amout of damping it provides. I really hope your 16kg springs work out...I'm sure you'll update us. When are you expecting them?
I agree with the assessment of the difference in cars however, I have not found anyone that seems to be really happy with their set up from YSR at faster speeds regardless of chassis. The more I experiment, the more I'm starting to think that the rear shock just is not valved right to support the proper spring whatever that might be. Meaning, that it does not allow for enough damping. Recently, I put the 20kg springs on the rear once more and played with a variety of preload with no great success. Actually, still too bouncy which is why I'm now questioning whether the spring is the issue or the shock valving and amout of damping it provides. I really hope your 16kg springs work out...I'm sure you'll update us. When are you expecting them?
they said soon
do you have a rear sway bar? im not sure any w215 owners have tried this with a rear swaybar. ive heard front sway bars dont make a huge difference. i dont remember user Pmercury complaining about bounciness, I think he most complained about stiffness with the 20kg springs...i want to try rear sways...i might be re-doing my rear subframe bushings soon anyways
i think the bounciness with this kit is the lack of sag. might be because of the shortened settings but the strutmasters kit that lacked the bounciness at high speeds, seemed to droop from the car much further than the Yellow speed kit. I noticed this especially because the strutmasters were hard to remove because of their size, the yellow speed kit slipped in easily
front springs were a whopping 51 lbs. i think the yellow speed kit was 41 lbs total? i ran out of money and couldn't ship the rear coilovers yet because it costs so much lol
do you have a rear sway bar? im not sure any w215 owners have tried this with a rear swaybar. ive heard front sway bars dont make a huge difference. i dont remember user Pmercury complaining about bounciness, I think he most complained about stiffness with the 20kg springs...i want to try rear sways...i might be re-doing my rear subframe bushings soon anyways
i think the bounciness with this kit is the lack of sag. might be because of the shortened settings but the strutmasters kit that lacked the bounciness at high speeds, seemed to droop from the car much further than the Yellow speed kit. I noticed this especially because the strutmasters were hard to remove because of their size, the yellow speed kit slipped in easily
Interesting thought on sag/droop. Even so, I experimented a little more today and expanded more on your therory of soft front and hard back. So currently, my fronts have the 20kg springs on them with about 1/2 inch preload now set to 6 from softest on the damper. The rear also have the 20kg springs with about a 1/4 inch of preload set 1 from hardest damping. On my first ride this morning on the freeway (where I usually test for control levels at high speeds because of a small bump and sudden dip), the results where not great...still too bouncy. I had just added a little preload to the rear springs. After a disappointing run I went to work and in the evening ride home, I felt it was riding better so I took another drive on the same freeway and to my surprise, it was much better...almost good. I figured that the rear must have settled just enough to add more sag/droop to the rear coilovers to help control the bounce. So I'm thinking, I might run with this idea a bit more this weekend...a little more preload while lowering the hight to shift more weight towards the rear coilovers. I'll update accordingly but, I'm truly encouraged because of the way it is currently behaving.
I do not have a sway bar in front or back...I really think that it would not help my bounce issue much. If I can get it under control enough, I may try it to see if it makes it even better. Even so, I remember Pmercury saying he did not seem to think he needed one either.
Weight of the strutmasters kit is about 100-105lbs
Weight of the yellowspeed kit is about 41lbs
big weight savings going with yellowspeed, however I think the differences in weight lend themselves to a noticeable difference in build quality. Strutmasters pieces feel very sturdy and rigid..yellowspeed pieces feel adequate however
yellow speed was kind enough to send me a pair of 16kg springs and adapter collars for my troubles
they said that this is a pair of their linear springs and that the normal W215 kits come with progressive spring rates. The springs that originally come with the kit did not seem to have the typical appearance of progressive spring rate springs? However I don’t see what point they would have in lying about the springs being progressive when they are not
So right now I have 20kg progressive spring rates in the front, and 14kg progressive spring rates in the back
Looks like I will be experimenting with different arrangements of springs, 16f/14r...14f/16r....14f/20r etc until I can find the best set up
im starting to wonder if the softest possible springs paired with a front sway bar could be the best setup? Im wondering if the yellow spreed springs are too stiff to allow much suspension travel... thus creating the usual high speed bounciness with yellow speed coilover kits
i have not yet done any changes to my suspension since the first install/loosening preload. i've been waiting on valve covers to get finished powdercoating and other engine tune up matters
but i've been doing some research and doing some reading, in theory...it sounds like the yellowspeed bounciness at high speeds is due to a lack of free sag, meaning the suspension isn't "free" enough to move about and do its job
in my opinion, the issue is that over "dips" at highway speeds, the chassis of the car follows the dips too much. i think we need to consider ADDING PRELOAD instead of removing preload. I think if we add preload, we will build up stored energy in the spring for it to do its job of "sag" more accurately
interesting excerpt from something i was reading about preload -
"
Why Do We Need Preload:
Everyone thinks about what happens when springs compress, but it’s also important to think about what happens when they extend. Spring preload pushes the tire down and makes the suspension work. On big bumps at speed the spring preload pushes the tires down to better follow the terrain and make a smoother, more controlled ride. Under articulation the spring preload increases tire contract pressure improving traction.
I bought a 65,000 mile 2002 CL500 for $5000 last month and other than the ABC system, the rest of the car was pretty good(even had the AMG bodykit and wheels option). It was sort of an impulse buy - I figured for that price and mileage, this would be a good project car. Now it's about time I addressed the ABC conversion so I can drive the car again. I think I'm going to be ordering the Ceika coilovers soon. I will see what kind of spring rates they offer. I can get a set for $990 shipped a the promo code. From what I read in the reviews, there were a couple of people that installed them on their CL and seemed satisfied with it. This was one of the reviews:
"CL500 2001 year with ABC
Everything was very easy to install, just make sure you keep your OEM bolts and nuts, because it's not included in the package. But it's very good product, and I can tell no difference between ABC and those coilovers ( I choosed comfort ones. with the damper settins on hard.) And everything was Plug & Play."
ctravis595 - I see you have a Florida plate. Whereabouts in FL are you? I'm near the Orlando area.
while i was installing the rear camber arms (to address inner tire wear/traction loss from extreme camber), i decided to loosen all preload from the rear springs. I was surprised to find out just how much preload was set on the rear springs....it was a good bit, I remember the manual that comes with the kit says not to adjust the preload...lol
immediately after starting the car and driving I could feel the difference in the suspension. Instead of the stiff, corvette-like suspension i originally experienced with the YellowSpeed kit, the suspension now feels incredibly stable without being overly harsh. Very comparable to what i remember ABC suspension feeling like, but yet not quite as soft of a ride as the Strutmasters kit.
Now that I have some good preload settings, I can play around with front/rear dampening settings some more to fine-tune the ride....I would love to compare with anyone with 19/20" rims and ABC suspension in Florida area...
got some time doing some cornering and highway driving this weekend. Very surprised to see I was able to get about 30mpg from a 2002 v8 engine... that’s crazy to me
so right now my latest thoughts are that the suspension may be best with some soft settings, but then add some sway bars. I thought the body roll felt fine, but I had a friend drive the car a bit, in the passenger seat I was able to really feel that the body roll was a bit excessive on the softest settings.
I think ill have to drop my rear subframe soon anyways, to replace subframe bushings, so might be a good time to add some rear sways. The bushings are showing signs of dry rot
C Travis,
I am glad to see you made progress on the Yellowspeed debacle. I never saw the progress until today since it wasnt in the W215 AMG threads. here are a few questions. Would you happen to know about how much preload was in the rear? did you have to drop the struts to get to the adjusting collar? can you confirm that this was on the 20 lb springs ang not the 16's? do you feel the 16's are necessary now?
11-30-2018, 09:37 PM
