Auction prices of CL65's & SL65's
12-19-2007, 03:40 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
well said...
I think the big difference here is clarified in this example...
I remember back when Porsche came out with the S series. It was without question Porsches best car to date. Rock solid reliability. Awesome performance for the times and high resale value. There was, however one achillies heel. The chain tensioners. There was a known failure rate that an owner would have to exprect. Aftermarket companies came out with a hydrolic tensioner retrofits that solved the issue bringing the modded car to near perfection. The BMW M3 is another "legend" for example that can easily withstand model changes. E46 M3's are fantastic dailies.
If this were the case here fine, so be it, go do your thing. The problem here is that this was the car that damn near did Mercedes in. It was the black hole of Mercedes folklore. In the history of Mercedes, I cant think of another model group that was as much of a thorn in the side of this company as last gen mercs. I would compare the lines to the Porsche 924, Maserati Biturbo, Cadillac Cimeron, Jaguar XJ6...etc without the poorman's pricetag. Were talking a car manufacture Chrysler Diamler losing tons of money, customers, reputation on a line of cars that were quite frankly POS.
At some point we have to frankly ask ourselves is a car worth owning at any price?
Would I drive a Jaguar, Triumph, Lancia, Fiat, MG, Lotus, Rolls, with the expectation of being able to get anywhere without hassle?
I think the big difference here is clarified in this example...
I remember back when Porsche came out with the S series. It was without question Porsches best car to date. Rock solid reliability. Awesome performance for the times and high resale value. There was, however one achillies heel. The chain tensioners. There was a known failure rate that an owner would have to exprect. Aftermarket companies came out with a hydrolic tensioner retrofits that solved the issue bringing the modded car to near perfection. The BMW M3 is another "legend" for example that can easily withstand model changes. E46 M3's are fantastic dailies.
If this were the case here fine, so be it, go do your thing. The problem here is that this was the car that damn near did Mercedes in. It was the black hole of Mercedes folklore. In the history of Mercedes, I cant think of another model group that was as much of a thorn in the side of this company as last gen mercs. I would compare the lines to the Porsche 924, Maserati Biturbo, Cadillac Cimeron, Jaguar XJ6...etc without the poorman's pricetag. Were talking a car manufacture Chrysler Diamler losing tons of money, customers, reputation on a line of cars that were quite frankly POS.
At some point we have to frankly ask ourselves is a car worth owning at any price?
Would I drive a Jaguar, Triumph, Lancia, Fiat, MG, Lotus, Rolls, with the expectation of being able to get anywhere without hassle?
I am confused...above you call it a "model group" and say "this was the car". You also make a comparison to specific models such as the 924, Cimeron and Biturbo. I think someone would reasonably assume you are talking about either the 65's or the CL. I take it based on your most recent comments that all previous generation M-B's are "bad". What is most perplexing is that you just spent $150K on a car that has zero reliability track record given how new it is...from a auto manufacturer who you are highly critical of reliability wise....but hey...go for it.
Please explain this "blackmarket"...it sounds very intriguing...
Tom
12-19-2007, 04:02 PM
#27
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Barolo:
I think some us (myself included) actually prefer the exterior and interior of the W215 to the W216 (Acura CL rear and BMW 7 Series interior). The fact that the CL65's drivetrain remains intact is a testament to it being considered the apex of engineering. The W216 is a very nice car and it has grown on me, but a CPO'd W215 CL65 for about 1/3 the price of a new one presents a great opportunity to own a highly desirable (maybe not to you) car.
Tom
I think some us (myself included) actually prefer the exterior and interior of the W215 to the W216 (Acura CL rear and BMW 7 Series interior). The fact that the CL65's drivetrain remains intact is a testament to it being considered the apex of engineering. The W216 is a very nice car and it has grown on me, but a CPO'd W215 CL65 for about 1/3 the price of a new one presents a great opportunity to own a highly desirable (maybe not to you) car.
Tom
You also have to understand when selecting this car I will not walk into an auction blind folded, that is why I am having an MB dealer buy it for me and put it through the CPO program. That alone is a big plus
. I mean sure there will be many screening test performed by myself and my Service advisor here in NY. I just don't see it being a nightmare if you know what you are buying and have the security of an added extra year of warranty by MB.
12-19-2007, 06:44 PM
#28
We have touched this subject before but I am shocked to see these prices
...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think. 
The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think. The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
.............I see these auction prices and I wonder. Ok, if I wanted a CL65, do normal human beings get a chance to purchase these cars at these prices. Can someone for instance buy a car at auction for another person. What is the way to get past the secret soceity to allow one to purchase a car at auction. Is it practical for a normal person? Where are these auctions located. Can I just show up and bid. I have NEVER met anyone who simply bought their car at one of these auctions.
Ted
12-19-2007, 06:52 PM
#29
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[QUOTE=Ted Baldwin;2559364].............I see these auction prices and I wonder. Ok, if I wanted a CL65, do normal human beings get a chance to purchase these cars at these prices. Can someone for instance buy a car at auction for another person. What is the way to get past the secret soceity to allow one to purchase a car at auction. Is it practical for a normal person? Where are these auctions located. Can I just show up and bid. I have NEVER met anyone who simply bought their car at one of these auctions.
Ted[/QUOTE
Man...Ted...you were reading my thoughts. Do you have to get license as a auto broker to go these auctions? If yes, what does that entail? Or would it be better to hire an existing broker to go to the auction for you and bid on the car based on your budget for a set fee.
Someone should know the answer on the board...!
Ted[/QUOTE
Man...Ted...you were reading my thoughts. Do you have to get license as a auto broker to go these auctions? If yes, what does that entail? Or would it be better to hire an existing broker to go to the auction for you and bid on the car based on your budget for a set fee.
Someone should know the answer on the board...
!
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
#30
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
Beat you to it...lol..Have my dealer where I bought the E55 offering me a sweat deal. get this...they will go to the auction buy me the car and put it through CPO. For a small fee of course. Couldn't get sweeter than that. I have told them what my price range is and they will shop according to that. Not Bad.
skyler- You dumping the M5?
skyler- You dumping the M5?
I'm going to sell my Supra first, then eventually the M5 when I've had my fill of it. Problem is I totally can't get enough of driving it.
12-19-2007, 10:43 PM
#32
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
I'm with most of you gus and prefer the 215 overly the 216 design both in exterior and interior. The 216 CL interior looks like a Buick interior and the CL65 seats look as if someone tried to copy Bently and failed miserably.
Problems with the 215 CL's will most likely be repeated in the 216 CL. The problems I had in my 215 CL600 were mostly centered around the ABC which is also shared in the 216. However, the problems were not only limited to the ABC but the coil packs for each cylinder had to be replaced at an ungodly cost.
Mercedes screws themselves, in the long run, by charging Ferrari prices for their 600 and 65 parts. With such high repair costs, most people are afraid to purchase and own the V12. The worries are not without warrant and the steep depreciation curve is a direct reflection on the worries. Mercedes owners want old school Mercedes safety and reliability and not old school Italian reliability issues.
The fact Mercedes purchased Chrysler had nothing to do with Mercedes' poor reliability. Mercedes, like many other companies, was more worried about profit than building a reliable car. They put their profitability above customer service and building quality vehicles. They are currently making huge efforts to build a better car but it took them many years to get where they are and will take many more to get out of their situation. With that said, I don't think the 216 will be that much more reliable than the 215.
Problems with the 215 CL's will most likely be repeated in the 216 CL. The problems I had in my 215 CL600 were mostly centered around the ABC which is also shared in the 216. However, the problems were not only limited to the ABC but the coil packs for each cylinder had to be replaced at an ungodly cost.
Mercedes screws themselves, in the long run, by charging Ferrari prices for their 600 and 65 parts. With such high repair costs, most people are afraid to purchase and own the V12. The worries are not without warrant and the steep depreciation curve is a direct reflection on the worries. Mercedes owners want old school Mercedes safety and reliability and not old school Italian reliability issues.
The fact Mercedes purchased Chrysler had nothing to do with Mercedes' poor reliability. Mercedes, like many other companies, was more worried about profit than building a reliable car. They put their profitability above customer service and building quality vehicles. They are currently making huge efforts to build a better car but it took them many years to get where they are and will take many more to get out of their situation. With that said, I don't think the 216 will be that much more reliable than the 215.
12-19-2007, 11:26 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=AMGfan;2559370]
read all my posts...You need a licensed dealer that has access to auctions go and bid for you, I think they may charge you 500 bucks or so...I am having an MB dealer do my bidding and screening. the public can't go and bid unless you are a licensed dealer.
.............I see these auction prices and I wonder. Ok, if I wanted a CL65, do normal human beings get a chance to purchase these cars at these prices. Can someone for instance buy a car at auction for another person. What is the way to get past the secret soceity to allow one to purchase a car at auction. Is it practical for a normal person? Where are these auctions located. Can I just show up and bid. I have NEVER met anyone who simply bought their car at one of these auctions.
Ted[/QUOTE
Man...Ted...you were reading my thoughts. Do you have to get license as a auto broker to go these auctions? If yes, what does that entail? Or would it be better to hire an existing broker to go to the auction for you and bid on the car based on your budget for a set fee.
Someone should know the answer on the board...!
Ted[/QUOTE
Man...Ted...you were reading my thoughts. Do you have to get license as a auto broker to go these auctions? If yes, what does that entail? Or would it be better to hire an existing broker to go to the auction for you and bid on the car based on your budget for a set fee.
Someone should know the answer on the board...
!
12-19-2007, 11:27 PM
#34
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12-20-2007, 12:48 AM
#35
.............I see these auction prices and I wonder. Ok, if I wanted a CL65, do normal human beings get a chance to purchase these cars at these prices. Can someone for instance buy a car at auction for another person. What is the way to get past the secret soceity to allow one to purchase a car at auction. Is it practical for a normal person? Where are these auctions located. Can I just show up and bid. I have NEVER met anyone who simply bought their car at one of these auctions.
Ted
Ted
12-20-2007, 01:05 AM
#36
Super Member
I'm with most of you guys and prefer the 215 overly the 216 design both in exterior and interior.
mercedes screws themselves, in the long run, by charging Ferrari prices for their 600 and 65 parts. With such high repair costs, most people are afraid to purchase and own the V12. The worries are not without warrant and the steep depreciation curve is a direct reflection on the worries.
mercedes screws themselves, in the long run, by charging Ferrari prices for their 600 and 65 parts. With such high repair costs, most people are afraid to purchase and own the V12. The worries are not without warrant and the steep depreciation curve is a direct reflection on the worries.
(cant wait to see next years market on the 65's as some will be out of factory warr.)
12-21-2007, 01:19 AM
#37
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Don't worry I will bring you proof come march 2008.
12-21-2007, 01:19 AM
#38
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12-21-2007, 06:47 AM
#39
Its a fraction of the story ..yes, but I gives a realistic Image of what is really happening out there. I posted the numbers not to make any one feel bad but to informfellow members. Wether it be a slight deviation from the advertised sellign price, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to do the math. These cars were 180+ new, very simple right now they are going for much more less than 70K.
Don't worry I will bring you proof come march 2008.
Don't worry I will bring you proof come march 2008.
Ted
12-21-2007, 09:03 AM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
I disagree with those who don't see the incredible benefit of knowing the auction prices. Think about it.... if you are interested in purchasing a CL65 from an individual or especially a dealer who has been sitting on this car for some time it is a huge benefit. You now know what a seller is able to get at auction or in effect at trade-in. The dealers themselves use the auction prices to determine what to offer on a trade-in, so any private owner will be looking at that as a bottom line price. There is one simple truth about the W215 CL65: there is a very very limited market for this car...even at the depreciated price. These cars sometimes sit on lots for quite sometime until the dealers lower the price to near auction price levels. Knowing the auction prices provides negotiating leverage over the dealer. You can basically offer $2K over auction prices because 1) it gets the seller a higher price than what the auction/trade-in could get them 2) saves them the cost of transporting and commissions (dealers) 2) saves the seller time and energy 3) builds a relationship (dealer) with a customer that can not be replicated by selling it at auction.
Tom
Tom
12-21-2007, 09:54 AM
#41
I disagree with those who don't see the incredible benefit of knowing the auction prices. Think about it.... if you are interested in purchasing a CL65 from an individual or especially a dealer who has been sitting on this car for some time it is a huge benefit. You now know what a seller is able to get at auction or in effect at trade-in. The dealers themselves use the auction prices to determine what to offer on a trade-in, so any private owner will be looking at that as a bottom line price. There is one simple truth about the W215 CL65: there is a very very limited market for this car...even at the depreciated price. These cars sometimes sit on lots for quite sometime until the dealers lower the price to near auction price levels. Knowing the auction prices provides negotiating leverage over the dealer. You can basically offer $2K over auction prices because 1) it gets the seller a higher price than what the auction/trade-in could get them 2) saves them the cost of transporting and commissions (dealers) 2) saves the seller time and energy 3) builds a relationship (dealer) with a customer that can not be replicated by selling it at auction.
Tom
Tom
Ted
12-21-2007, 11:49 AM
#43
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
I'm in the market for a CL65 as well, waiting to find one at a dealer with extended warranty, and a decent trade for my E55...... can't wait for the v12 tt.... 
12-21-2007, 12:00 PM
#44
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Great man!! Join the club. I am going to buy my car in March or Late February. I suggest wait after the new years. They will get hit more I think, or I may just be wrong.
12-21-2007, 05:53 PM
#45
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1988 535i 5 speed
.............There are CL65's on ebay with "buy it now" prices of $67K. So one can already get these cars in the real world for less than the $70K you mentioned. I don't doubt what you are saying. The secret auctions therefore will only be of benefit if they can translate to an even lower price of less than mid $60K to the end buyer. If this is the case then it is fantastic and i'll expect some smart guy with a dealer license can make himself a lot of money buy helping others acquire these cars from auction. But no one is stepping up. It all so seceretive. I don't understand.
Ted
Ted
12-21-2007, 06:47 PM
#46
I wonder how much the loan values are above the average retail prices that we are seeing on Ebay? $10K, $25K, highter?? In other words, based on KellyBB, the prices on clean retail are still around $115K. If you wanted to trade and hide some upside equity, these cars just might be a good way to do it.
12-21-2007, 08:56 PM
#47
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Ted - I have a dealer that will go buy at "secret auction" prices and charge $1,000 fee. www.ExecutiveCars.com - in NJ and honest guys.
12-21-2007, 09:50 PM
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No longer car shopping...
I was thinking the same thing. These auctions seem to be the place to get the lowest price on any car, and I would guess there would be a large demand for this. If true, the guys who go and bid could make a fortune. I wonder what is involved in getting one of these licenses. I would be intereseted in finding out, anybody know?
It ain't a simple process. My friend only charged me $600 to "broker" my BMW way back when but he also KNEW I wouldn't be a problem. I even went on the lot and found the EXACT car I wanted and KNEW what it had gone through the lanes for. In short, the dealers often EARN those premiums.
PS - We DO appreciate the information that THOSE dealers pay though because it gives us a better idea of what we can negotiate in our efforts to buy something on the retails market (e.g. as close to avg wholesale as possible) rather than the $7K premiums most dealers would want to charge us.
12-22-2007, 01:47 AM
#49
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Had to get the coil packs replaced due to the motor being powerwashed. That was the source of the check engine light that caused the buyback.
Since then, I've put 18000 trouble free miles on it. The car is a blast as a daily driver, and have only spent $$ on routine maintenance...oh, and rear tires. ;-)
What a fabulous car....never would have imagined 10 years ago that my daily commuter car would be able to massage my back while delivering 604 hp to the pavement!
12-22-2007, 03:48 AM
#50
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It's not really that hard at all. Set up the business. Get a dealers license. File the appropriate tax paperwork. Pay business taxes. Get checking account, etc. Register at the auction house. The REAL issue is the TIME it takes to do all this and buy and sell the cars. There's also risk. Guy says he wants an XYZ car and is willing to pay $70K. You go to auction and buy a pristine XYZ for $65K and bring it to him. Now the guy decides he's only willing to pay $67,500 (thinking he'll screw around with you) or he has a "family" emergency and backs out (wife told him he couldn't buy it), etc... Sure, you can then turn right around and sell it again at auction but (more money, more time and potential losses). What if you buy a car that had "hidden" problems? It's not like the auction house is going to say "Oops, here's you money back". What about getting a large enough credit line to float 3 or 6 cars at a time?
It ain't a simple process. My friend only charged me $600 to "broker" my BMW way back when but he also KNEW I wouldn't be a problem. I even went on the lot and found the EXACT car I wanted and KNEW what it had gone through the lanes for. In short, the dealers often EARN those premiums.
PS - We DO appreciate the information that THOSE dealers pay though because it gives us a better idea of what we can negotiate in our efforts to buy something on the retails market (e.g. as close to avg wholesale as possible) rather than the $7K premiums most dealers would want to charge us.
It ain't a simple process. My friend only charged me $600 to "broker" my BMW way back when but he also KNEW I wouldn't be a problem. I even went on the lot and found the EXACT car I wanted and KNEW what it had gone through the lanes for. In short, the dealers often EARN those premiums.
PS - We DO appreciate the information that THOSE dealers pay though because it gives us a better idea of what we can negotiate in our efforts to buy something on the retails market (e.g. as close to avg wholesale as possible) rather than the $7K premiums most dealers would want to charge us.
