Auction prices of CL65's & SL65's
12-18-2007, 01:33 PM
#1
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Auction prices of CL65's & SL65's
We have touched this subject before but I am shocked to see these prices
...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think. 
The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think. The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
12-18-2007, 02:50 PM
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
We have touched this subject before but I am shocked to see these prices...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think.
The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
...my God, I think I will wait until April 08, I might end up buying one for High 40's I think. The SL's are dropping like a tank as well....
CL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 17,759 $68,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 16,231 $66,500 11/01/07 NEVADA 12G Avg HORZ BLU Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 22,590 $59,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 32,611 $59,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BRI SIL Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 29,714 $57,500 11/07/07 SEATTLE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE CL65 AMG 48,756 $52,000 11/08/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw PEWTER N
SL
Type Miles Price Sale date Auction Engine T
R Cond Color Sample
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 8,378 $95,000 11/20/07 W PALM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 14,761 $91,250 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,921 $88,000 11/29/07 MANHEIM 12G A Avg BLACK Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 12,729 $86,500 12/12/07 ALOHA 12G A Avg ALA WHT Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 19,639 $82,000 12/11/07 FAAO 12G A Avg SILVER Y
2D COUPE SL65 AMG 49,745 $68,000 12/06/07 RIVRSIDE 12G A Blw GRPH GRN N
Those cars just keep on dropping lower and lower in price. This really sucks for the 1st owner, but awsome for the following one 
12-18-2007, 02:52 PM
#3
The numbers do not provide information whether the car was lemon-lawed, frame-damaged, or any other number of problems that may possible occur.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
12-18-2007, 03:03 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
The numbers do not provide information whether the car was lemon-lawed, frame-damaged, or any other number of problems that may possible occur.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
12-18-2007, 03:03 PM
#5
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'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
The numbers do not provide information whether the car was lemon-lawed, frame-damaged, or any other number of problems that may possible occur.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
They should be used as reference points when making an offer on a car.
CL (w215) is getting butchered because of the new model. There are heavy discounts on the SL (r230). It's being reflected in the wholesale market.
Typically, the AMG cars will bottom out at about 50% of the original MSRP and hang around there for a while (for a good specimen vehicle). After that, it's a slow depreciation.
Agreed that you have no idea what condition the cars are in, but if you look at the average price, regardless of condition, they're dropping like STONES>
I might be right in there with you Jody.
12-18-2007, 03:05 PM
#6
No, it will not always. Especially for these niche cars, even if it's lemon-lawed, the manheim MMR will still sometimes register it as average or even above average. It makes no sense really.
12-18-2007, 03:09 PM
#7
The prices are dropping and the cars are readily available. Riverside,CA and West Palm, FL are where most of the car leases are ending up.
The problem is that everyone says they want a car, but no one is willing to actually pay for it due to the fact that it keeps on depreciating.
If you really are interested in a X65 model, contact a dealer in those areas and they can go to auction for you to personally see the vehicles. As long as the paint meter reads clean and under warranty, you're pretty much set.
You will most likely have the occasional door ding, scratches on the bumpers, but that's typical of any car.
The problem is that everyone says they want a car, but no one is willing to actually pay for it due to the fact that it keeps on depreciating.
If you really are interested in a X65 model, contact a dealer in those areas and they can go to auction for you to personally see the vehicles. As long as the paint meter reads clean and under warranty, you're pretty much set.
You will most likely have the occasional door ding, scratches on the bumpers, but that's typical of any car.
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12-18-2007, 03:16 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
The prices are dropping and the cars are readily available. Riverside,CA and West Palm, FL are where most of the car leases are ending up.
The problem is that everyone says they want a car, but no one is willing to actually pay for it due to the fact that it keeps on depreciating.
If you really are interested in a X65 model, contact a dealer in those areas and they can go to auction for you to personally see the vehicles. As long as the paint meter reads clean and under warranty, you're pretty much set.
You will most likely have the occasional door ding, scratches on the bumpers, but that's typical of any car.
The problem is that everyone says they want a car, but no one is willing to actually pay for it due to the fact that it keeps on depreciating.
If you really are interested in a X65 model, contact a dealer in those areas and they can go to auction for you to personally see the vehicles. As long as the paint meter reads clean and under warranty, you're pretty much set.
You will most likely have the occasional door ding, scratches on the bumpers, but that's typical of any car.
skyler- You dumping the M5?
12-18-2007, 04:05 PM
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I assume you guys are well aware of the fact
that the X65 were about Mercedes worst performers in terms of reliability? These cars specifically made the Consumer Reports and JD Power "Do Not Buy" list for every year that they were manufacturered. A very good friend of mine had an 05 CL65 and absolutely hated it due to the amount of times he's had to get it repaired.
MAKE SURE IT INCLUDES A WARRANTY and, more impotantly, make sure you have no plans to keep it beyond warranty. Factor in what the car will be worth out of waranty as well and cost to repair should something unfortunately happen outside of warranty.
These were not good cars for Mercedes and furthermore cost the company a huge market share in terms of customer loyaly.
Although resale for Mercedes AMG has never been all that great, the amount of depreciation is directly tied to what it is thats being resold. If you look at the resale value of a BMW M3 or M6 or an Audi RS, Porsche Turbo, I think tha youll see percentages that reflect the the viability of the used car itself. Try doing a 4 year old market study (% of retail / current value).
The lean market for the X65 is probably directly related to the history of the car itself and should be expected. They are not great cars.
Does anybody on this site who currently owns an X65 out of warranty or otherwise want to share their owm personal experiences in terms of reliability?
MAKE SURE IT INCLUDES A WARRANTY and, more impotantly, make sure you have no plans to keep it beyond warranty. Factor in what the car will be worth out of waranty as well and cost to repair should something unfortunately happen outside of warranty.
These were not good cars for Mercedes and furthermore cost the company a huge market share in terms of customer loyaly.
Although resale for Mercedes AMG has never been all that great, the amount of depreciation is directly tied to what it is thats being resold. If you look at the resale value of a BMW M3 or M6 or an Audi RS, Porsche Turbo, I think tha youll see percentages that reflect the the viability of the used car itself. Try doing a 4 year old market study (% of retail / current value).
The lean market for the X65 is probably directly related to the history of the car itself and should be expected. They are not great cars.
Does anybody on this site who currently owns an X65 out of warranty or otherwise want to share their owm personal experiences in terms of reliability?
Last edited by Barolo CLS; 12-18-2007 at 04:16 PM.
12-18-2007, 04:14 PM
#10
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that the X65 were about Mercedes worst performers in terms of reliability? These cars specifically made the Consumer Reports and JD Power "Do Not Buy" list for every year that they were manufacturered. A very good friend of mine had an 05 CL65 and absolutely hated it due to the amount of times he's had to get it repaired.
MAKE SURE IT INCLUDES A WARRANTY and, more impotantly, make sure you have no plans to keep it beyond warranty. Factor in what the car will be worth out of waranty as well and cost to repair should something unfortunately happen outside of warranty.
These were not good cars for Mercedes and furthermore cost the company a huge market share in terms of customer loyaly.
Although resale for Mercedes AMG has never been all that great, the amount of depreciation is directly tied to what it is thats being resold. If you look at the resale value of a BMW M3 or M6 or an Audi RS, Porsche Turbo, I think tha youll see percentages that reflect the the viability of the used car itself. Try doing a 4 year old market study (% of retail / current value).
The lean market for the X65 is probably directly related to the history of the car itself and should be expected. They are not great cars.
MAKE SURE IT INCLUDES A WARRANTY and, more impotantly, make sure you have no plans to keep it beyond warranty. Factor in what the car will be worth out of waranty as well and cost to repair should something unfortunately happen outside of warranty.
These were not good cars for Mercedes and furthermore cost the company a huge market share in terms of customer loyaly.
Although resale for Mercedes AMG has never been all that great, the amount of depreciation is directly tied to what it is thats being resold. If you look at the resale value of a BMW M3 or M6 or an Audi RS, Porsche Turbo, I think tha youll see percentages that reflect the the viability of the used car itself. Try doing a 4 year old market study (% of retail / current value).
The lean market for the X65 is probably directly related to the history of the car itself and should be expected. They are not great cars.
In terms of warranty, it's a MUST with almost any AMG.
12-18-2007, 05:32 PM
#11
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Suspect Barolo is correct re: 65 reliability.....
Know of several colleagues who have had new 65s that became lemon buybacks; these guys are major repeat MB custs, so dealer and MBUSA stepped up to seamlessly solve an embarrassing situation for all involved....advantages of deep relationships w/well-run, major MB dealer that will protect its best repeat customers and new car's lemon law protection.....
But not sure MBUSA (or any mfr) casually buys back $200K 65s (or any car) from one-off custs w/some, technically non-lemon law-qualifying reliability "issues"....
Have seen numerous lemon buy-back 65s on ebay....even '06-'07 cars.....
Engineering common sense would lead one to not be surprised.....65 is a stressed-out 600 motor, right? Stressed-out motors often entail compromised reliability. Also, MB only sold ?2-3K 65s over past 2-3yrs, perhaps not enough of mass-scale produc vol to really understand/debug real-world reliability issues.....
Know of several colleagues who have had new 65s that became lemon buybacks; these guys are major repeat MB custs, so dealer and MBUSA stepped up to seamlessly solve an embarrassing situation for all involved....advantages of deep relationships w/well-run, major MB dealer that will protect its best repeat customers and new car's lemon law protection.....
But not sure MBUSA (or any mfr) casually buys back $200K 65s (or any car) from one-off custs w/some, technically non-lemon law-qualifying reliability "issues"....
Have seen numerous lemon buy-back 65s on ebay....even '06-'07 cars.....
Engineering common sense would lead one to not be surprised.....65 is a stressed-out 600 motor, right? Stressed-out motors often entail compromised reliability. Also, MB only sold ?2-3K 65s over past 2-3yrs, perhaps not enough of mass-scale produc vol to really understand/debug real-world reliability issues.....
12-18-2007, 05:40 PM
#12
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Barolo:
It is funny, this afternoon at lunch, I ran into an owner (an older gentleman) of a pewter CL65 (W215) in Bethesda. As he was getting out of his car, I told him it was beautiful and actually asked him about any maintenance problems. He thought for a second and said "none". I told him I was interested in buying one. He gave me a thumbs up and said with a big smile "get it...you will love it....it is the best car I have ever owned....and it goes like hell".
I really wouldn't trust an organization like Consumer Reports for a super-luxury item such as a car. A car like the CL65 presents very little "value" in comparison to their apex of auto luxury...a Lexus. If you were so concerned about Consumer Reports ratings why would you purchase a W216 CL63? The quality and reliability of such a new car is still a virtual unknown. Let's face it, if we all were looking for ultimate reliability...we would all be driving Japanese cars. I understand your points....there have been quite a few problems with quality in recent MB products.
The steep decline in value of such a niche car is not isolated to AMG's or CL's. I got plungered when I got rid of my Audi RS6. It was not a fun experience....
Tom
It is funny, this afternoon at lunch, I ran into an owner (an older gentleman) of a pewter CL65 (W215) in Bethesda. As he was getting out of his car, I told him it was beautiful and actually asked him about any maintenance problems. He thought for a second and said "none". I told him I was interested in buying one. He gave me a thumbs up and said with a big smile "get it...you will love it....it is the best car I have ever owned....and it goes like hell".
I really wouldn't trust an organization like Consumer Reports for a super-luxury item such as a car. A car like the CL65 presents very little "value" in comparison to their apex of auto luxury...a Lexus. If you were so concerned about Consumer Reports ratings why would you purchase a W216 CL63? The quality and reliability of such a new car is still a virtual unknown. Let's face it, if we all were looking for ultimate reliability...we would all be driving Japanese cars. I understand your points....there have been quite a few problems with quality in recent MB products.
The steep decline in value of such a niche car is not isolated to AMG's or CL's. I got plungered when I got rid of my Audi RS6. It was not a fun experience....
Tom
12-18-2007, 05:43 PM
#13
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WSH:
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
12-18-2007, 06:01 PM
#14
Super Member
no wonder theirs hardly any aftermarket warr. companies that will sell an extended warr. for a v12 tt car?????
i think next year at this time being winter, higher mileage, warranties expiring, people wanting a new body-style, etc these cars should be in the high 40's.
i hope-for my sake.
i think next year at this time being winter, higher mileage, warranties expiring, people wanting a new body-style, etc these cars should be in the high 40's.
i hope-for my sake.
12-18-2007, 06:54 PM
#15
Although resale for Mercedes AMG has never been all that great, the amount of depreciation is directly tied to what it is thats being resold. If you look at the resale value of a BMW M3 or M6 or an Audi RS, Porsche Turbo, I think tha youll see percentages that reflect the the viability of the used car itself. Try doing a 4 year old market study (% of retail / current value).
If you look at it from a mathematical point of view, the x65 cars have a steeper curve of depreciation in the first 3-4 years, which leads to a greater dollar amount depreciation. However, when it all bottoms out, the x65 used car prices are onpar with all the other niche model performance cars. There will always be a demand for a used car that used to cost $100k, $200k, $300k etc
The reliability from the x65's are probably the same as any other non-AMG cars. If anything, I would say that the x65 consumer is probably pickier and more inclined to complain about problems. They expect (with good reason) a perfect car when they purchase/lease and when infact, their car is just a normal S/SL/CL with a better engine/tranny
12-18-2007, 08:16 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
WSH:
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
, Ohh yeah I could picture it now...
At the price I am going to pick one up and the way I am doing it through the CPO program it will be fine.
12-18-2007, 08:30 PM
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original MSRP is irrelavent on a used car.
I dont think that should even factor into a decision.
If I was given a choice of a M6 or a CL65 to drive for the same money, I would opt for the M6 regardless of original MSRP. I would consider cost of ownership, reliability, fun to drive, etc all before I would even minimally consider the original MSRP.
Just be careful is all I'm saying, and dont fall lure to the original MSRP. If I paid $200K for a new CL65 a few years ago, I wouldnt tell a soul. It's even hard justifying $150 for a Cl63.
If you drive the new Cl65 at the same sticker as the older Cl65, it is as night and day as a 2007 Vette compared to a 1997 one.
I owned a C500 Coupe. The model before the one in question. The big coupes up to the current body were nothing more than tourquey, heavy asphalt shredders. I cant help but to thing the desireabilty of the new body coupes will stand up better as (compared to say a DB9 or a M6 Bentley Coupe for example), this is the best GT tourer at any price. There is such a night and day difference that I wonder can the X65 ever level off.
If I was given a choice of a M6 or a CL65 to drive for the same money, I would opt for the M6 regardless of original MSRP. I would consider cost of ownership, reliability, fun to drive, etc all before I would even minimally consider the original MSRP.
Just be careful is all I'm saying, and dont fall lure to the original MSRP. If I paid $200K for a new CL65 a few years ago, I wouldnt tell a soul. It's even hard justifying $150 for a Cl63.
If you drive the new Cl65 at the same sticker as the older Cl65, it is as night and day as a 2007 Vette compared to a 1997 one.
I owned a C500 Coupe. The model before the one in question. The big coupes up to the current body were nothing more than tourquey, heavy asphalt shredders. I cant help but to thing the desireabilty of the new body coupes will stand up better as (compared to say a DB9 or a M6 Bentley Coupe for example), this is the best GT tourer at any price. There is such a night and day difference that I wonder can the X65 ever level off.
12-18-2007, 08:53 PM
#18
After reading the reliability posts in this thread about the past X65s, I'm inclined to really hope MB continues to do as well as they have with the current models or they are in big trouble. Chrysler really dragged them down hard.
I think MB has already in just the past year resurfaced as the leader in luxury cars. I now have 18000 miles on my S600 and I have not had a single issue with my car (knock on wood). And so far, it seems the new CL is keeping pace with the improvements.
For example, we don't see window motor failures and light bulb issues like we did in previous models. The quirky items also seem to have gone away-- like weird radio functions and malfunctions, rain sensors that didn't work quite right, messages always popping up on the display about little things, etc, etc. Light bulbs and window motors were always a problem with my past cars. Oh yes, let's not forget all of the suspension failures. I hope we have seen the last of those problems. Of course, Benz always fixed/replaced the items very quickly for me but it was embarrasing and annoying.
I think MB has already in just the past year resurfaced as the leader in luxury cars. I now have 18000 miles on my S600 and I have not had a single issue with my car (knock on wood). And so far, it seems the new CL is keeping pace with the improvements.
For example, we don't see window motor failures and light bulb issues like we did in previous models. The quirky items also seem to have gone away-- like weird radio functions and malfunctions, rain sensors that didn't work quite right, messages always popping up on the display about little things, etc, etc. Light bulbs and window motors were always a problem with my past cars. Oh yes, let's not forget all of the suspension failures. I hope we have seen the last of those problems. Of course, Benz always fixed/replaced the items very quickly for me but it was embarrasing and annoying.
12-18-2007, 09:15 PM
#19
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I dont think that should even factor into a decision.
If I was given a choice of a M6 or a CL65 to drive for the same money, I would opt for the M6 regardless of original MSRP. I would consider cost of ownership, reliability, fun to drive, etc all before I would even minimally consider the original MSRP.
Just be careful is all I'm saying, and dont fall lure to the original MSRP. If I paid $200K for a new CL65 a few years ago, I wouldnt tell a soul. It's even hard justifying $150 for a Cl63.
If you drive the new Cl65 at the same sticker as the older Cl65, it is as night and day as a 2007 Vette compared to a 1997 one.
I owned a C500 Coupe. The model before the one in question. The big coupes up to the current body were nothing more than tourquey, heavy asphalt shredders. I cant help but to thing the desireabilty of the new body coupes will stand up better as (compared to say a DB9 or a M6 Bentley Coupe for example), this is the best GT tourer at any price. There is such a night and day difference that I wonder can the X65 ever level off.
If I was given a choice of a M6 or a CL65 to drive for the same money, I would opt for the M6 regardless of original MSRP. I would consider cost of ownership, reliability, fun to drive, etc all before I would even minimally consider the original MSRP.
Just be careful is all I'm saying, and dont fall lure to the original MSRP. If I paid $200K for a new CL65 a few years ago, I wouldnt tell a soul. It's even hard justifying $150 for a Cl63.
If you drive the new Cl65 at the same sticker as the older Cl65, it is as night and day as a 2007 Vette compared to a 1997 one.
I owned a C500 Coupe. The model before the one in question. The big coupes up to the current body were nothing more than tourquey, heavy asphalt shredders. I cant help but to thing the desireabilty of the new body coupes will stand up better as (compared to say a DB9 or a M6 Bentley Coupe for example), this is the best GT tourer at any price. There is such a night and day difference that I wonder can the X65 ever level off.
12-18-2007, 09:31 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
WSH:
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
I disagree...the motor in the CL65 is absolutely not stressed...quite the opposite. The engine's performance is scaled back dramatically through the ECU/TCU to prevent the transmission from blowing up. Unfettered, it would deliver 700hp 880 lbs-ft of torque.
It is interesting to read all the lemon law buyback disclosures of these vehicles online. 99% of the problems pertain to the electronics...not the actual engine.
Tom
To draw any hard conclusions need to figure out warranty repair cost incurred by MB/lemon law buyback rate of 65 vs 63/55/600s.....for obvious reasons, MB closely guards that data.....
IMO, don't really care what excuse is that any car needs to visit shop....whether it's mechanical/computers/stress/non-stress/whatever BS explanation....
If trying to determine best "value" of any car, need to price repair downtime/hassles....which represent high oppty cost for most owners of $100K++ cars whose time tends to be more valuable than owners of buggy/unreliable <$50K cars....and who'd much rather be doing something else for business/pleasure vs wasting their time getting a problematic car repaired, no matter warranty....
12-18-2007, 10:01 PM
#21
Super Member
Suspect Barolo is correct re: 65 reliability.....
Know of several colleagues who have had new 65s that became lemon buybacks; these guys are major repeat MB custs, so dealer and MBUSA stepped up to seamlessly solve an embarrassing situation for all involved....advantages of deep relationships w/well-run, major MB dealer that will protect its best repeat customers and new car's lemon law protection.....
But not sure MBUSA (or any mfr) casually buys back $200K 65s (or any car) from one-off custs w/some, technically non-lemon law-qualifying reliability "issues"....
Have seen numerous lemon buy-back 65s on ebay....even '06-'07 cars.....
Engineering common sense would lead one to not be surprised.....65 is a stressed-out 600 motor, right? Stressed-out motors often entail compromised reliability. Also, MB only sold ?2-3K 65s over past 2-3yrs, perhaps not enough of mass-scale produc vol to really understand/debug real-world reliability issues.....
Know of several colleagues who have had new 65s that became lemon buybacks; these guys are major repeat MB custs, so dealer and MBUSA stepped up to seamlessly solve an embarrassing situation for all involved....advantages of deep relationships w/well-run, major MB dealer that will protect its best repeat customers and new car's lemon law protection.....
But not sure MBUSA (or any mfr) casually buys back $200K 65s (or any car) from one-off custs w/some, technically non-lemon law-qualifying reliability "issues"....
Have seen numerous lemon buy-back 65s on ebay....even '06-'07 cars.....
Engineering common sense would lead one to not be surprised.....65 is a stressed-out 600 motor, right? Stressed-out motors often entail compromised reliability. Also, MB only sold ?2-3K 65s over past 2-3yrs, perhaps not enough of mass-scale produc vol to really understand/debug real-world reliability issues.....
The 65 is not a stressed out 600 engine. Two totally different engines and components. 6.0 liter vs 5.5 liter displacement, different sized turbos and heavier duty forged components in the 65 engine.
12-19-2007, 11:49 AM
#22
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Anecdotal data can often be misleading....
To draw any hard conclusions need to figure out warranty repair cost incurred by MB/lemon law buyback rate of 65 vs 63/55/600s.....for obvious reasons, MB closely guards that data.....
IMO, don't really care what excuse is that any car needs to visit shop....whether it's mechanical/computers/stress/non-stress/whatever BS explanation....
If trying to determine best "value" of any car, need to price repair downtime/hassles....which represent high oppty cost for most owners of $100K++ cars whose time tends to be more valuable than owners of buggy/unreliable <$50K cars....and who'd much rather be doing something else for business/pleasure vs wasting their time getting a problematic car repaired, no matter warranty....
To draw any hard conclusions need to figure out warranty repair cost incurred by MB/lemon law buyback rate of 65 vs 63/55/600s.....for obvious reasons, MB closely guards that data.....
IMO, don't really care what excuse is that any car needs to visit shop....whether it's mechanical/computers/stress/non-stress/whatever BS explanation....
If trying to determine best "value" of any car, need to price repair downtime/hassles....which represent high oppty cost for most owners of $100K++ cars whose time tends to be more valuable than owners of buggy/unreliable <$50K cars....and who'd much rather be doing something else for business/pleasure vs wasting their time getting a problematic car repaired, no matter warranty....
I think the big difference here is clarified in this example...
I remember back when Porsche came out with the S series. It was without question Porsches best car to date. Rock solid reliability. Awesome performance for the times and high resale value. There was, however one achillies heel. The chain tensioners. There was a known failure rate that an owner would have to exprect. Aftermarket companies came out with a hydrolic tensioner retrofits that solved the issue bringing the modded car to near perfection. The BMW M3 is another "legend" for example that can easily withstand model changes. E46 M3's are fantastic dailies.
If this were the case here fine, so be it, go do your thing. The problem here is that this was the car that damn near did Mercedes in. It was the black hole of Mercedes folklore. In the history of Mercedes, I cant think of another model group that was as much of a thorn in the side of this company as last gen mercs. I would compare the lines to the Porsche 924, Maserati Biturbo, Cadillac Cimeron, Jaguar XJ6...etc without the poorman's pricetag. Were talking a car manufacture Chrysler Diamler losing tons of money, customers, reputation on a line of cars that were quite frankly POS.
At some point we have to frankly ask ourselves is a car worth owning at any price?
Would I drive a Jaguar, Triumph, Lancia, Fiat, MG, Lotus, Rolls, with the expectation of being able to get anywhere without hassle?
Last edited by Barolo CLS; 12-19-2007 at 12:10 PM.
12-19-2007, 01:45 PM
#23
Super Member
What about the CL55 (215 BODY) is the value still there?..... other thoughts
Does anyone have Manheim auction reports from 2003-2004-2005?
thanks in advance
Does anyone have Manheim auction reports from 2003-2004-2005?
thanks in advance
12-19-2007, 02:14 PM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Barolo:
Can you exaggerate a little more in your assessment of the W215 CL? The CL was produced in very limited quantities from 1999 to 2006. It is amazing that "this was the car that damn near did Mercedes in" given its limited production. Stranger yet, that MB produced the car over such a long period given its questionable reliability.
I think some us (myself included) actually prefer the exterior and interior of the W215 to the W216 (Acura CL rear and BMW 7 Series interior). The fact that the CL65's drivetrain remains intact is a testament to it being considered the apex of engineering. The W216 is a very nice car and it has grown on me, but a CPO'd W215 CL65 for about 1/3 the price of a new one presents a great opportunity to own a highly desirable (maybe not to you) car.
Tom
Can you exaggerate a little more in your assessment of the W215 CL? The CL was produced in very limited quantities from 1999 to 2006. It is amazing that "this was the car that damn near did Mercedes in" given its limited production. Stranger yet, that MB produced the car over such a long period given its questionable reliability.
I think some us (myself included) actually prefer the exterior and interior of the W215 to the W216 (Acura CL rear and BMW 7 Series interior). The fact that the CL65's drivetrain remains intact is a testament to it being considered the apex of engineering. The W216 is a very nice car and it has grown on me, but a CPO'd W215 CL65 for about 1/3 the price of a new one presents a great opportunity to own a highly desirable (maybe not to you) car.
Tom
12-19-2007, 02:38 PM
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http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom...0-0-0-0-0.html
And I never said the X65 or CL alone, That would be irresponsible.... I said across the board, Chrysler also hurt....but hey, go for it. To each his own.
I personally like the fact that there is a blackmarket for those cars; that can only help all those that hold the marque.
And I never said the X65 or CL alone, That would be irresponsible.... I said across the board, Chrysler also hurt....but hey, go for it. To each his own.
I personally like the fact that there is a blackmarket for those cars; that can only help all those that hold the marque.
Last edited by Barolo CLS; 12-19-2007 at 02:48 PM.
