dunderhi

READ YOUR OWN POSTS!!!!!!!!!
(oh wait let me add some more exclamations, they seem important to you)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You make broad and general claims and lamely attempt to back it up with a single dubious data point. There are numerous M's that went around the track much slower than AMG's. Let me help you out, the smaller numbers mean the cars went faster around the track. You made broad claims about Black Series and DTM, but when you are PROVEN WRONG, you whine that they don't count. Sorry, but I don't agree with your equally uninformed unsubstantiated inappropriately declared FACT:
Merc>BMW IN A STRAIGHT LINE
Merc<BMW ON ANY TRACK

How about a more factual statement?
Merc <=> BMW on any given day with any given driver in any given race.

Your fanboy claims are so outrageous that you probably believe BMW has won every race it ever entered if track was more complex than a banked oval.

BTW on your cherished CSL, took several years of trial and error and many lame laps to finally hit its mark. It failed in 2005. It failed in 2006. Each year the mods increased. It wasn't until 2007 with plastic windows, an illegal in the U.S. exhaust, 3 inches of ground clearance, and about the ugliest wing on the planet did they finally set their dubious mark. It's a race car that they claim is the fastest production car. Much of the chassis, the exhaust, the wheels, the body panels, the suspension, the clutch, and much of the interior was replaced. The engine needed new pistons, a new water cooling system, a new oil cooling system, a new fuel system, new ducting, a bunch of carbon fiber parts, and a huge supercharger. All non-factory mods. The car even needed 98 Octane racing fuel!!!!! Are you sure you still want to claim this race car is production car, let alone a BMW? When they sold the car at auction they had to remove some of their mods to make street legal (READ SLOWER.) With this many mods, I would think a 1982 Ford Capri could put down some decent lap times, wait one did a 7:08.59 on the longer 22.8km circuit. I guess I should now make the claim that no M is capable of beating a Ford on a track, right? Oh wait let me help you whine a bit, it's not a fair comparison!! The Ford has a turbo and my CSL only had a supercharger. Waaahhh!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'll let you make your usual "I need to make some more stuff up and follow it with the dead-horse comment and hope no-one replies to call me on my B.S. post." So let me cut to the chase, your right about everything you have ever said and ever will say. Our country will be prosperous and we will all live happily ever after with you calling the shots. Heck let's just go for world domination, all hail Emporer Daily, ruler of the known and unknown worlds.

On that note, I heading over to Bimmerfest to talk to so reasonable BMW drivers.

451/443=EW

bigben320e

I have my popcorn out as well. No use responding to this anymore, it was busted back a long time ago.

On an apology...you have got to be kidding. That's an insult, not just to me but MBWorld. Checking an ip is not unprofessional, that was to check the validity of the location. That's all. Like I said before, the whole story was all swirled up, lost, and confused. Drop it.

sound 8

When I joined the forum I done so because it was a valuable place to share
experiences and ask for or give help.This thread has certainly brought many
replies. Everybody has a bad day as mine was, and it's great to get it off your chest by posting it on the forum. My CL65 still doesn't feel much different to my SL55, that said the power delivery is different, but just because I say this I am not bashing it, It is superb for a long distance car
and it feels pure quality. When I posted this I did not expect to get such a hostile reaction, and bigben 320e you made it feel like a witch hunt to find me
and burn me to the stake. I have booked my 65 in for a full diagnostic check
with new plugs/filters etc and hopefully it will bring a little more zing to the
performance. Meanwhile I cannot see the point of closing this thread, it has brought a great response.

ldangeli

PICS OR BAN FOR THE LAST TIME. You keep posting the same crap over and over. ENOUGH!

sound 8

and you keep saying exactly the same crap over and over. Touche!

daily

Just so you know ANY EXHAUST MODIFICATION (provided that is louder than stock) FROM STOCK IS ILLEGAL MY FRIEND, ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now your comment about the ugly wing just shows that you have no clue about how to set up a car which was done with the csl boot for the record and the wing was added later in another attempt to break the record (BTW doesn't the black series use CF). I don't really see any reason to continue this srgument with someone that doesn't know anything about cars except what they read in magazines. BTW 98 octane is 93 here in the states but you aleady knew that didn't you!!!!!!!!!!!!! One of two things is going to happen this racing season; either all of you juice drinkers will all owe me a major appologie once merc. and bmw go head to head this year or I will. Remember that history has a habbit of repeating itself and we all know what happened in the past (BMW OWNED MERC PERIOD)!!!! Guys I love merc. for comfort as there is nothing that comes close but like a previous post said this has been beat to death so lets just agree to dissagree and see what happens once the marque's go head to head.

daily

Sorry guys had to do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCg5iMKAc0Y

ldangeli

Because your a liar and a fake. I have earned the right on this forum with many years of actual knowledgeable posts to say to Newbs like you, the same crap, over and over again. PICS OR BAN!

Whats your point?? We know BMW is a great handling car. But the knuckle head who started the post was saying that a previous generation M3 beat his 63AMG??. Wasn't that the start of this post? In this video you are comparing two completely different cars. This new M3 is a monster. Everyone knows that. Stick to the topic at hand, which is, sound 8 is a liar and a fake. He's been called out numerous times, yet continues to epically fail at proving he isn't lying. And because he is a friend of yours and you are trying to defend him, makes you just as bad. Once again. PICS OR BAN SOUND8. I can't believe this thread hasn't been closed at this point. It is utterly rediculous.

daily

OH I am not defending sound 8 as a matter of fact I posted for him to just let it go. This was to enlighten dunderhi. TBH I am surprised that this has not been locked yet. Unfortunately I am not one of those people that just sit by while others post up nonsense. One of the missinformed FOOLS tried to use the fact the the M used CF but didn't realize that the black series uses CF all over the place. Again I see that this place is full of people that know next to nothing about cars or even the mercedes product line that they are so quick to defend. How could anyone that truly likes, loves this brand allow for such dissinformation to exist on here? This is supposed to be a place to LEARN FACT not FICTION.

dunderhi

I declared you the infallible Emporer of the World and you're still whining?

Maybe this will help.



If you don't believe the horse is dead yet and want to whine some more, please read on:



Ahh more exclamation points. I so impressed. The modification to the stock cats is what makes Loaded CSL illegal. Most jurisdictions allow louder exhaust systems. Most aftermarket exhausts are louder than stock. I had some Corsa's that would put some Harleys to shame. Noise isn't the federal violation.

All claims of the 07 record have the wing installed. The 05 & 06 runs did not have a wing. Do you have any proof to the contrary? If you have any "real" proof, I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong. No proof, no comment. I'm still not sure why you "fanboyily" believe that one race car that was an M car at on time means all M cars have the same performance abilty: THEY DON'T. It's the most simple fact that any knuckle dragger should be able to understand.

Of course it does, this a pretty well known fact. I never claimed otherwise. Most BS & DTM claims have been posted by you. So much for calling people FOOLS when YOU keep making false claims.

Ouch. My autoshop instructors are going to be so dissappointed in what I have become: literate. Maybe you should work on improving you reading comprehension. Some mathematical exercises should also help your logic skills. Then maybe you'll be ready to argue with someone who knows something about cars.

Exclamations again. RON vs RM2. I had forgot the Euporean focus on this race car. So you got one right. Congrats. Thinking about it a bit more, I'll confess that I ran 100 "RON" in my SL when I was in Europe.

Since it isn't worth mentioning anymore, I guess the horse is finally buried. Unlike you, I don't make unsubstantiated absolute claims, my dear Emporer. I have never claimed that an M would never beat an AMG. Of course the new M3 has done better than the C63. It's been shown in many venues. I have never made a claim that this was impossible, but your own numbers show M6's slower the SL's. Can't you even consider an AMG can beat one of you M's. I thought the Ford vs Chevy guys were bad.

Guru, now? Then yes, I am enlightened. I have learned a valuable lesson: Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. It was a painful lesson, but thanks for acting like a FOOL (as you put it) to teach me a lesson.



Finally, I guess Daily & I have tried to hijack this thread. Sometimes I can't resist FANBOYS and their rose-colored glasses claims. I need to go back the SL & GL threads where fanboys are few and the members actually own the cars they talk about. Unfortunately, this is like crack, it's so hard to resist to see what irrational claims will be made in reply.

daily

I have posted pics of my e46M and My e30 is in the process of having a 2.5 storker kit with custom FI built. I just recently purchased my S500 (after owning two other mercedes 95 sl500, and an e420 sprort). So since I ACTUALLY OWN A BMW AND A MERCEDES I CAN TALK FORM EXPERIENCE mind showing me or telling me your experience (or ownership) of both? IF not than just Keep quiet!!! I would be more than happy to post up specs on the car THAT I BUILT. Lets make a thread and compare My M to any BMW that you built. Oh here is a little tid bit for you My car is on the MA SHAW web site (Oh did I mention that I am sponsored by them) http://www.mashaw.net/GalleryPages/GalleryBMW.html (pics are pre paint). SO when you are ready I have my build sheet ready buddy!!!

sound 8

idangeli there are pics on S55 viper kill of my cars.
You may have been a member for a while, but how do you know who's interested in anything you say!!

bigben320e

Totally agree. I don't want to keep this mess going, but to add the OP first said straight line he was beat by an old M3. Then the OP jumped on handling comparisons between M's and AMG's. Huh? I thought straight line and handling were to very different performance points? That's where I got totally lost, and that's also where the thread sunk into epic fail.

Sure M's have been proven to handle better, but that was not the claim of the thread from the start, nor the circumstance. Am I off-track or crazy or am I on-point?

sound 8

O.K. I agree that the story got longer, but I never changed the fact that
after the chase when we were both going very fast ( I beleive ) I was on the
limiter, I could not pass. But all my other threads have asked for help or tried
to give help to the members, and why does idangeli want to ban me!!
Because our roads are somewhat smaller and congested as apposed to a straight line drag race,they tend to happen through bends and roundabouts
where handling plays a great part. The night I posted it I should have cooled down and put a thread on later,but I was angry. Anyway my 65 is at the dealer, full diag check new plugs/filters etc, but best of all he called me to
tell me there was a recall on my car, he said they have to fit new catalytic
converters, free cats sounds good to me. I won't get it till around Tuesday
and will report any improvements. Meanwhile can we stop slinging the sh*t.

451/443=EW

+1 thats what I have been thinking, M's are great cars but this guy doesnt seem to give the right facts and the complaint is pointless after you say round abouts. Hes trin to save face and wont admit to any wrong. But I like coming and reading cus he still trys to prove he is right and I find it very amusing. Smokin crack will kill you mind son!!

GMBALL

Mercedes Benz CL65 AMG is not limited to 155, limiter is at higher speed than that, I believe it is something around 170MPH.

dunderhi

So, since you DON'T ACTUALLY OWN THE LOADED M3 CSL, NONE OF THE CURRENT M'S, OR AMG'S means you're actually going to keep quiet?

I have cross-shopped and TESTED the 2007 SL55, M6 vert, and SL550 last year. All were affordable to me, but the 550 was the best balanced car for me. I was not impressed by the M6. If the SL63 was available, then outcome may have been different. The last time around, I cross-shopped and TESTED the E500, 545, & A6. The A6 won that competition. I buy the car, not the brand. The only reason I happen to have two Benz's is because my wife made here own choice. I have driven/owned/modified many cars, but I know I can't make absolute claims and NEITHER CAN YOU.


I know you have owned and/or modified BMW's and Benz's and not a 15yr old poser, but your premise:
is a nonsensical absolute claim, especially given the proof you have provided. Dude, they are you numbers, not mine. Whine about BS & carbon parts, but the new M's are getting plenty of CF too.


YOUR PROOF!!!
Full-size coupe to full-size coupe
7:36 --- 162.63 km/h -- Mercedes SL 63 AMG Black Series
8:07.76 152.04 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg

Full-size vert to full-size vert
8:06 --- 152.59 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:16.52 149.22 km/h -- BMW M6 convertible, 507 PS/2015 kg

Mid-size coupe to Mid-size coupe
7:45* -- 159.48 km/h -- Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series, 507 PS/1760 kg
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- BMW M3, 420 PS/1608 kg

Compact coupe to Compact coupe
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h -- Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black Series, 400 PS/1506 kg
8:22 --- 147.75 km/h -- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS/1445 kg

Compact vert to Compact vert
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h –- BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg
8:24 --- 147.14 km/h -- Mercedes SLK 55 AMG, 360 PS/1566 kg

Given other tests with the M3 coupe against the C63 sedan, the M3 sedan should beat the C63 on ring, but we won't know until the tests are run. There are other pairings where the data doesn't exist, so no one knows who would win. Maybe BMW, maybe MB.

I still stand by my much more realistic statement:
Merc <=> BMW on any given day with any given driver in any given race.

BTW, if you read my sig, you'll see that I'm a member of the BMW Car Club of America. I'm also a member at Bimmerfest. I like BMW's, but I know like every other brand of car, they aren't perfect. Sorry, but that's a FACT.

sound 8

Sorry I checked with my dealer and others UK CL65 is limited to 155!!

daily

Did you just actually compare a M6 to an SL? That just ends it for me. You feel that they are in the same class? O.K.!!!!!!!!

TMC M5

Wow...there is a alot of slinging going back and forth on this one. Maybe I can either help clarify some of this or add incendiary fodder.

First of all in 1996 Europe and other parts of the world where Bill Clinton was not President...BMW released an M3 called "Evolution" which had a 321bhp 3.2L inline 6. BMW decided to not give the US the much improved heads over the 286hp version (only 240hp in the US). These cars only weigh 3,200lbs and are great handling cars. I am not surprised at all that a nearly 4,700lbs car can not keep up with such a nimble car in the turns...the laws of physics still apply in the UK.

Secondly, I find that when following someone at a high speed clip...the car in front has a distinct advantage...especially over a "faster" car behind. The "faster" car behind has to wait and react to the car in front. Those precious tenths of a second add up...and a car like the M3 in this instance is given a greater advantage as it hits the brakes and enters these roundabouts... exaggerating the differential in speed through these sections.

Thirdly, the OP mentions the car is new to him. Flinging a 4,700lbs car with 600+hp takes *****....doing it quickly... takes practice. Did the OP leave it up to the transmission when to shift or did he use manual controls on the steering wheel? The guy with M3 most likely had tons of seat time in his ride and knew the limits of his car and probably enjoys driving like that all the time. The OP's initial dalliance wasn't as fruitful as he desired...but I am sure if he practices...he will get alot more speed out of his car.

Fourthly, I believe his story is true...but he could have been more tactful in how he presented it. He is obviously not a simpleton...and he is British...so I would have expected him to be a bit more gracious ...especially knowing the crowd he was trying to reach. I believe he wanted to stir some dialogue and to that end he succeeded...but at the cost of his credibility with a good number of members here.

Fifthly (is there such a thing), Mr Daily...you need to calm down. I have owned an M car and they are great handling cars...no enthusiast will deny it. However, you stated that there is NO AMG that will out handle an M car...only a Sith speaks in absolutes...sir...are you a Sith? (sorry...I had to ). Seriously, a CLK63 Black Series will out handle an E60 M5 and an M6...so you lose that argument. If you are trying to make the argument that on average the M cars out handle the corresponding AMG (i.e. E63 vs E60 M5, M roadster vs SLK55)...I will buy it. Make sure you form your statements away from absolutes...... it will always lead to evidence that can weaken and destroy your argument (yes I realize I threw out my own absolute).

Tom

AMGfan

Tom...well said. PS...I'm going to Ft Lauderdale next weekend to test drive another SL65. Keep you posted.

451/443=EW

I like this guy.
Your last statment is great. I just learnt something and I'll try and practice just that. Thanks TOM!!

TMC M5

Jon:

Thanks! Good luck!!! I hope it is the "one".

451/443EW:

Thanks! Do you have a C63?

Tom

sound 8

Wow, thanks Tom, this is the sort of reply I was hoping to get,rather than being called a troll.
I expected some help, like I recently saw an M5 beating a CL600 video and although he got some insults other members suggested he checked his IC pump(intercooler?) And if people read my further post they will realise the whole story as you have. The car was new to me (2 months) and when I
following the M3 I had to brake and lift of alot because you don't know what the other driver is going to do. As I said I caught him several times on the straight but apart from undertaking with slower moving traffic he stayed in the fast lane.After the last roundabout a car came between us,or shall I say an idiot pulled out between us, when he moved over the M3 had made 15 car lengths or so, I floored it and caught him,he was now in the inside lane with an exit road coming, I could not pass and still believe I hit the limiter.
Anyway my car is in at the moment for full diagnostic/plugs/filters and a recall
to put new cats . I am hoping when I pick it up there may be some more gg's
as it feels like I am short. Of course that may be because it's incrdeibly smooth and quiet. And daily...I never said an SL55 was faster than an M5/6,
unless you mean my spoof post given as a laugh.
Thanks Tom for analysing it , and reading the situation, I just hope you haven't been tarnished with me.