cl65 ECU upgrade
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W215 CL65 & w221 S63
cl65 ECU upgrade
where in Los Angeles area can I get my W215 CL65 ECU upgrade ? and or is their any one who has thoughts or done ecu upgrade to any mbz ? worth it or should I just keep it stock ? any comments appreciated,,,
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
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From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...r-s63-amg.html
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
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From: Chicago
CL65
It's night and day.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
CL65, FJ80, Sportsmobile 4x4, Model X Plaid
You can tune the CL65 AMG with a block tuner over the OBD. No need to send the car anywhere or take the ECU out, and you can switch back and forth between stock and tuned in a few minutes.
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...r-s63-amg.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...r-s63-amg.html
Sounds awesome.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
On the W215 cars, the TCU software upgrade is done to the physical TCU. We do these on an exchange basis, where we ship the TCU and the Block Tuner to you, and you ship back the factory TCU.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Oct 2004
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everything
We are located in Orange County, not very far from LA. We did a CL600 last week for a doctor in the LA area who loved it. I'm sure you will enjoy any ecu upgrade you go with, the 65's are absolute monsters.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,694
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From: San Diego, CA
07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
I will be up in LA later this weekend picking up a 996tt for a switzer build, let me know if you would like me to tune your CL65 this week, no down time instant results. If your not impressed, I simply flash back to stock, we shake hands and your off.
James@ACG
James@ACG
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
That "interview" is a complete hatchet job. Based on freewayne's post history, I would assume he works for a competitor or has an axe to grind.
First, Besanko admits that the benefit of tuning certain cars is low, and that it's up to the owner to decide if it's worthwhile. This is nothing new, and it doesn't make him a cheat. Plenty of modifications (air filters, exhaust, etc.) offer only marginal power gains on certain cars. RENNtech charges several thousand dollars for air filter housings that makes only a few horsepower. Dinan offers BMW M3 tunes, even though the increase is minimal. Reputable companies do this, and it's called capitalism. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.
Second, the interviewer seems to be suggesting that tuning is useless on a turbo car, because you can simply slap on a Manual Boost Controller (MBC). On the list of things I want to do to my Benz, this is followed only by "redo the paint with sandpaper and the body panels with a sledge hammer." I remember every time I saw "I blew my engine" on a Subaru WRX board, it was followed with "I installed an MBC from eBay." How do you account for Part Throttle Full Boost without tuning? You're making no adjustments to your timing map, and praying the stock ECU can guess and provide enough fuel to stop detonation? If you have a turbo car and you raise boost, you need tuning more, not less.
How many tuners do a full EPA testing cycle for a tuned car? I've never seen a single one. I don't know why the interviewer is expecting Powerchip would. Did the interviewer do a full EPA test when he installed the MBC and raised boost? Is his ECU dumping gas because the boost pressure is way out of parameter, and it's desperately trying to lower intake temps to prevent detonation? Is that burning his catalytic converters out, so they no longer filter NOx or CO?
Just because Besanko doesn't write the software himself, it doesn't mean the software is bad, although this is the first thing the interviewer tries to impress on you. How many managers hire talented people to produce things they don't know how to do themselves? Do you think Steve Jobs knows how to modify an ARM chip design to include a GPU and then write it to silicon to make the new A4 chip used in the iPad? Probably not, but he hired people who do, and now they can barely keep them on shelves.
The interviewer seems to imply that because Powerchip doesn't own a dyno, something is wrong with their tunes. Dynos are expensive. It makes sense to share and outsource. Even a company that does custom one-off tunes for maximum performance won't run their dyno 24/7. A company like Powerchip that does mostly off the shelf tunes will generally dyno a particular model of car once, create a map, put in a margin of error (to account for manufacturing differences and various mods the car might have), and be done. They are even less likely to need a full time dyno, when they can simply rent one for a few hours when they have a new model of car to tune.
Obviously, they don't have a engine dyno. Tuners don't have these, manufacturers do. Tuners care about wheel horsepower, not crank. Manufacturers need them for emissions, rated horsepower, and other calculations that go onto the window sticker. Tuners, no matter how reputable, don't ship you a new window sticker when you buy their exhaust, intake, or tune.
A more appropriate question would be "do you follow up dyno testing with road testing?" Who cares if they own a dyno, if they can easily rent one. Dyno testing is great for getting close, but a car, particularly an intercooled one, behaves differently when wind speeds vary and load is dynamic, versus when it's sitting on a roller with a fan blowing on it. The interviewer wants to hear if they own a dyno. I'd like to hear if they do a road dyno with a knock sensor, EGT probe, and wideband O2 filter, monitoring RPM, injector duty cycle, O2 mixture, EGT, and timing advance.
In summary, I would not base any purchasing decision on that interview.
First, Besanko admits that the benefit of tuning certain cars is low, and that it's up to the owner to decide if it's worthwhile. This is nothing new, and it doesn't make him a cheat. Plenty of modifications (air filters, exhaust, etc.) offer only marginal power gains on certain cars. RENNtech charges several thousand dollars for air filter housings that makes only a few horsepower. Dinan offers BMW M3 tunes, even though the increase is minimal. Reputable companies do this, and it's called capitalism. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.
Second, the interviewer seems to be suggesting that tuning is useless on a turbo car, because you can simply slap on a Manual Boost Controller (MBC). On the list of things I want to do to my Benz, this is followed only by "redo the paint with sandpaper and the body panels with a sledge hammer." I remember every time I saw "I blew my engine" on a Subaru WRX board, it was followed with "I installed an MBC from eBay." How do you account for Part Throttle Full Boost without tuning? You're making no adjustments to your timing map, and praying the stock ECU can guess and provide enough fuel to stop detonation? If you have a turbo car and you raise boost, you need tuning more, not less.
How many tuners do a full EPA testing cycle for a tuned car? I've never seen a single one. I don't know why the interviewer is expecting Powerchip would. Did the interviewer do a full EPA test when he installed the MBC and raised boost? Is his ECU dumping gas because the boost pressure is way out of parameter, and it's desperately trying to lower intake temps to prevent detonation? Is that burning his catalytic converters out, so they no longer filter NOx or CO?
Just because Besanko doesn't write the software himself, it doesn't mean the software is bad, although this is the first thing the interviewer tries to impress on you. How many managers hire talented people to produce things they don't know how to do themselves? Do you think Steve Jobs knows how to modify an ARM chip design to include a GPU and then write it to silicon to make the new A4 chip used in the iPad? Probably not, but he hired people who do, and now they can barely keep them on shelves.
The interviewer seems to imply that because Powerchip doesn't own a dyno, something is wrong with their tunes. Dynos are expensive. It makes sense to share and outsource. Even a company that does custom one-off tunes for maximum performance won't run their dyno 24/7. A company like Powerchip that does mostly off the shelf tunes will generally dyno a particular model of car once, create a map, put in a margin of error (to account for manufacturing differences and various mods the car might have), and be done. They are even less likely to need a full time dyno, when they can simply rent one for a few hours when they have a new model of car to tune.
Obviously, they don't have a engine dyno. Tuners don't have these, manufacturers do. Tuners care about wheel horsepower, not crank. Manufacturers need them for emissions, rated horsepower, and other calculations that go onto the window sticker. Tuners, no matter how reputable, don't ship you a new window sticker when you buy their exhaust, intake, or tune.
A more appropriate question would be "do you follow up dyno testing with road testing?" Who cares if they own a dyno, if they can easily rent one. Dyno testing is great for getting close, but a car, particularly an intercooled one, behaves differently when wind speeds vary and load is dynamic, versus when it's sitting on a roller with a fan blowing on it. The interviewer wants to hear if they own a dyno. I'd like to hear if they do a road dyno with a knock sensor, EGT probe, and wideband O2 filter, monitoring RPM, injector duty cycle, O2 mixture, EGT, and timing advance.
In summary, I would not base any purchasing decision on that interview.
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
That "interview" is a complete hatchet job. Based on freewayne's post history, I would assume he works for a competitor or has an axe to grind.
First, Besanko admits that the benefit of tuning certain cars is low, and that it's up to the owner to decide if it's worthwhile. This is nothing new, and it doesn't make him a cheat. Plenty of modifications (air filters, exhaust, etc.) offer only marginal power gains on certain cars. RENNtech charges several thousand dollars for air filter housings that makes only a few horsepower. Dinan offers BMW M3 tunes, even though the increase is minimal. Reputable companies do this, and it's called capitalism. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.
Second, the interviewer seems to be suggesting that tuning is useless on a turbo car, because you can simply slap on a Manual Boost Controller (MBC). On the list of things I want to do to my Benz, this is followed only by "redo the paint with sandpaper and the body panels with a sledge hammer." I remember every time I saw "I blew my engine" on a Subaru WRX board, it was followed with "I installed an MBC from eBay." How do you account for Part Throttle Full Boost without tuning? You're making no adjustments to your timing map, and praying the stock ECU can guess and provide enough fuel to stop detonation? If you have a turbo car and you raise boost, you need tuning more, not less.
How many tuners do a full EPA testing cycle for a tuned car? I've never seen a single one. I don't know why the interviewer is expecting Powerchip would. Did the interviewer do a full EPA test when he installed the MBC and raised boost? Is his ECU dumping gas because the boost pressure is way out of parameter, and it's desperately trying to lower intake temps to prevent detonation? Is that burning his catalytic converters out, so they no longer filter NOx or CO?
Just because Besanko doesn't write the software himself, it doesn't mean the software is bad, although this is the first thing the interviewer tries to impress on you. How many managers hire talented people to produce things they don't know how to do themselves? Do you think Steve Jobs knows how to modify an ARM chip design to include a GPU and then write it to silicon to make the new A4 chip used in the iPad? Probably not, but he hired people who do, and now they can barely keep them on shelves.
The interviewer seems to imply that because Powerchip doesn't own a dyno, something is wrong with their tunes. Dynos are expensive. It makes sense to share and outsource. Even a company that does custom one-off tunes for maximum performance won't run their dyno 24/7. A company like Powerchip that does mostly off the shelf tunes will generally dyno a particular model of car once, create a map, put in a margin of error (to account for manufacturing differences and various mods the car might have), and be done. They are even less likely to need a full time dyno, when they can simply rent one for a few hours when they have a new model of car to tune.
Obviously, they don't have a engine dyno. Tuners don't have these, manufacturers do. Tuners care about wheel horsepower, not crank. Manufacturers need them for emissions, rated horsepower, and other calculations that go onto the window sticker. Tuners, no matter how reputable, don't ship you a new window sticker when you buy their exhaust, intake, or tune.
A more appropriate question would be "do you follow up dyno testing with road testing?" Who cares if they own a dyno, if they can easily rent one. Dyno testing is great for getting close, but a car, particularly an intercooled one, behaves differently when wind speeds vary and load is dynamic, versus when it's sitting on a roller with a fan blowing on it. The interviewer wants to hear if they own a dyno. I'd like to hear if they do a road dyno with a knock sensor, EGT probe, and wideband O2 filter, monitoring RPM, injector duty cycle, O2 mixture, EGT, and timing advance.
In summary, I would not base any purchasing decision on that interview.
First, Besanko admits that the benefit of tuning certain cars is low, and that it's up to the owner to decide if it's worthwhile. This is nothing new, and it doesn't make him a cheat. Plenty of modifications (air filters, exhaust, etc.) offer only marginal power gains on certain cars. RENNtech charges several thousand dollars for air filter housings that makes only a few horsepower. Dinan offers BMW M3 tunes, even though the increase is minimal. Reputable companies do this, and it's called capitalism. If you don't think it's worth it, don't buy it.
Second, the interviewer seems to be suggesting that tuning is useless on a turbo car, because you can simply slap on a Manual Boost Controller (MBC). On the list of things I want to do to my Benz, this is followed only by "redo the paint with sandpaper and the body panels with a sledge hammer." I remember every time I saw "I blew my engine" on a Subaru WRX board, it was followed with "I installed an MBC from eBay." How do you account for Part Throttle Full Boost without tuning? You're making no adjustments to your timing map, and praying the stock ECU can guess and provide enough fuel to stop detonation? If you have a turbo car and you raise boost, you need tuning more, not less.
How many tuners do a full EPA testing cycle for a tuned car? I've never seen a single one. I don't know why the interviewer is expecting Powerchip would. Did the interviewer do a full EPA test when he installed the MBC and raised boost? Is his ECU dumping gas because the boost pressure is way out of parameter, and it's desperately trying to lower intake temps to prevent detonation? Is that burning his catalytic converters out, so they no longer filter NOx or CO?
Just because Besanko doesn't write the software himself, it doesn't mean the software is bad, although this is the first thing the interviewer tries to impress on you. How many managers hire talented people to produce things they don't know how to do themselves? Do you think Steve Jobs knows how to modify an ARM chip design to include a GPU and then write it to silicon to make the new A4 chip used in the iPad? Probably not, but he hired people who do, and now they can barely keep them on shelves.
The interviewer seems to imply that because Powerchip doesn't own a dyno, something is wrong with their tunes. Dynos are expensive. It makes sense to share and outsource. Even a company that does custom one-off tunes for maximum performance won't run their dyno 24/7. A company like Powerchip that does mostly off the shelf tunes will generally dyno a particular model of car once, create a map, put in a margin of error (to account for manufacturing differences and various mods the car might have), and be done. They are even less likely to need a full time dyno, when they can simply rent one for a few hours when they have a new model of car to tune.
Obviously, they don't have a engine dyno. Tuners don't have these, manufacturers do. Tuners care about wheel horsepower, not crank. Manufacturers need them for emissions, rated horsepower, and other calculations that go onto the window sticker. Tuners, no matter how reputable, don't ship you a new window sticker when you buy their exhaust, intake, or tune.
A more appropriate question would be "do you follow up dyno testing with road testing?" Who cares if they own a dyno, if they can easily rent one. Dyno testing is great for getting close, but a car, particularly an intercooled one, behaves differently when wind speeds vary and load is dynamic, versus when it's sitting on a roller with a fan blowing on it. The interviewer wants to hear if they own a dyno. I'd like to hear if they do a road dyno with a knock sensor, EGT probe, and wideband O2 filter, monitoring RPM, injector duty cycle, O2 mixture, EGT, and timing advance.
In summary, I would not base any purchasing decision on that interview.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Originally Posted by Autospeed Interviewer
If the chips do as you have said, how come over the ten years that I have been writing for magazines, I've never got into a car that has been chipped and thought "This is far better than the standard car". Why I am I so wrong for so long if what you say is correct?
If we were talking M3's, this would almost (but still not) make sense. The M3 is already pretty squeezed, as Powerchip even admits. But the topic is about a CL65 and the last post from Powerchip was regarding a CL600. I don't think you can name another car ever made with so much potential from just a tune.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
Apparently the interviewer never rode in Marko's car.
If we were talking M3's, this would almost (but still not) make sense. The M3 is already pretty squeezed, as Powerchip even admits. But the topic is about a CL65 and the last post from Powerchip was regarding a CL600. I don't think you can name another car ever made with so much potential from just a tune.
If we were talking M3's, this would almost (but still not) make sense. The M3 is already pretty squeezed, as Powerchip even admits. But the topic is about a CL65 and the last post from Powerchip was regarding a CL600. I don't think you can name another car ever made with so much potential from just a tune.
Trying to massage big gains out of an already-tuned/optimized NA car, however? Mostly futile.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 72
Likes: 2
From: Metro Kansas City
'05 CL65 AMG
Bottom line is not really what you need, but what you want.
Find yourself a good company, and if you want un-restricted speed, and a few extra hp/tq, then go for it.
oetuning
Thanks for contacting me. There are a few ways of doing this. You can
> remove and send in your ecu or if you do not want to remove your ecu I
> have a product called E-Z Flash that allows you to flash OBD2. E-Z
> Flash gives you the ability to have 2 map settings that you can switch
> between with the ease of a flash. E-Z Flash if yours to own and costs
> and additional $400.00. The cost of the tune (separate cost) is
> $1995.00 with complementary ground shipping. Turnaround time can be a
> s little as 2-3 days if overnight shipping is used. The gains to be
> expected are +50-65whp and +60-85wTq. The top speed limiter is also
> removed. I hope that I have answered all your questions. Please let me
Find yourself a good company, and if you want un-restricted speed, and a few extra hp/tq, then go for it.
oetuning
Thanks for contacting me. There are a few ways of doing this. You can
> remove and send in your ecu or if you do not want to remove your ecu I
> have a product called E-Z Flash that allows you to flash OBD2. E-Z
> Flash gives you the ability to have 2 map settings that you can switch
> between with the ease of a flash. E-Z Flash if yours to own and costs
> and additional $400.00. The cost of the tune (separate cost) is
> $1995.00 with complementary ground shipping. Turnaround time can be a
> s little as 2-3 days if overnight shipping is used. The gains to be
> expected are +50-65whp and +60-85wTq. The top speed limiter is also
> removed. I hope that I have answered all your questions. Please let me
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Just curious, but are you Jon Martin, who was banned?
Here he is promoting a tune from OE, even mentioning discount pricing: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...y-w-dynos.html
And here he is also suggesting to Google "Powerchip": https://mbworld.org/forums/4394616-post173.html
These sound very similar to me. Perhaps a mod can check IPs. At the very least, it's clear there are ulterior motives here. Jon Martin is bashing Powerchip while promoting OE. Freewayne created an account here with the sole purpose of bashing Powerchip (again, check post history).
I think I provided enough examples of the logical and technical fallacies of the article you posted. I don't see anything else to cover here.
As for being a fan boy, I never said anything to promote Powerchip. I have no experience with them. If you have experience, instead of posting a misleading and flawed article, how about being forthcoming? All the rumors (his former employee said this, he stole that, etc.) are irrelevant. That's for the various parties and their lawyers to figure out.
Does the tune work or not? If you're a current or former customer, with no other motivation, then post that. Did you get a tune from Powerchip that didn't work?
I posted not because I'm a fan boy, but because the article was flawed, it's unfair both to Powerchip and other tuners, and your attack is obviously either biased or misrepresented. Clearly your beef with him has nothing to do with the content of the article you posted.
Here he is promoting a tune from OE, even mentioning discount pricing: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...y-w-dynos.html
And here he is also suggesting to Google "Powerchip": https://mbworld.org/forums/4394616-post173.html
Originally Posted by freewayne
Google "Powerchip" and "Wayne Besanko" and see the feedback other like minded folks have to say on this topic.
Originally Posted by jonmartin
All anyone has to do is Google" Wayne Besanko "and you will get tons of results from customers and their horrible experiences of dealing with Powerchip and its owner Wayne Besanko.
I think I provided enough examples of the logical and technical fallacies of the article you posted. I don't see anything else to cover here.
As for being a fan boy, I never said anything to promote Powerchip. I have no experience with them. If you have experience, instead of posting a misleading and flawed article, how about being forthcoming? All the rumors (his former employee said this, he stole that, etc.) are irrelevant. That's for the various parties and their lawyers to figure out.
Does the tune work or not? If you're a current or former customer, with no other motivation, then post that. Did you get a tune from Powerchip that didn't work?
I posted not because I'm a fan boy, but because the article was flawed, it's unfair both to Powerchip and other tuners, and your attack is obviously either biased or misrepresented. Clearly your beef with him has nothing to do with the content of the article you posted.
