freestylebiker3

the only thing i can think of is that the dyno guy screwed up and put the wrong numbers... i have no idea

freestylebiker3

i will be contacting my tuner to talk to him about my numbers, and if he made a mistake or not

saintz

I bet you have a clogged cat. It dawned on me. That would also explain why it gets better as it warms. A bad cat will cause misfires and serious power issues (it starves the turbo for air, so you probably aren't hitting boost right). It's normally the last thing the dealer checks. It's also covered by federal law by a 8 year, 80k mile warranty, so even if the car is out of warranty, that is often covered.

Speedriven1

At this point best thing you could do is try another dyno in the area. Possibly one that someone on the forum has used so you can compare numbers. And get a boost reading on the dyno so you can see what the issue is. MB did have a bulletin about either an issue with wastegates or bov, can remember for sure. Its been a couple years since I left the dealer.

freestylebiker3

i have replaced my passenger side cat converter becuase the dealer thought the misfire was caused by that..... also i will re dyno my car and check boost pressue, also i am waiting for the group buy on the catless downpipes from speedriven

JHouse

Did you replace it before or after your dyno run?

freestylebiker3

every thing that i did for service/repairs was done after my dyno runs... i would love to have 600+ hp and 800+tq on my cl65 with just a tune like everyone else

freestylebiker3

i just hooked up a boost gauge to my cl65 and my boost pressure was at 14psi and spike to 16psi for a second... what are other people runing there boost pressure at....

FYI: i got my boost refrence off the vacume line coming from the intercooler going to the map sensor

02cl55amg

i see maybe a peak of 24 and then tapers off to 17-18

freestylebiker3

ya you are making more boost then i am... i stay at 14psi and berly spike 16psi i have heard stock MAX psi is 1.5 bars. which makes that around 21psi your psi reading look like they are stock or is it tuned? becuase i am 7 psi under the factory 1.5 bar / 21psi

JAYCL600

youre down on boost big time. Have you replaced your intercooler pump? If ecu senses high IAT temps it will bleed boost in an effort to keep temps down.

RaceHorse

Sorry to hear about your run around and lack of power....Stick it out once done you will appreciate what the car has to offer, especially with a tune. I have had both my coil packs replaced. After the second bank and ignition module were replace(sametime), I got a CEL with mulitple misfires codes for the second bank again. My independant replaced it a second time saying it was a bad coil, and I haven't had any problems since. Now I understand this may not be the case for you, but maybe worth checking out. I appologize if I missed it on another thread, but have they performed compression tests on the misfired cylinders? I remember reading about the spark plug gap as a possibility but to me that should affect all cylinders equally if they are/were all the same gap. Its sad to think that you are paying top dollar at a dealer for their diagnostics and yet with their so called expertise they are not guessing any better then guys on the forum. Is it possible that you have a problem with the turbo BOV/wastegate staying partially open not allowing boost to build? Could a crack in the manifold be the reason for rough cold starts? I may not be the guy with the answers, but maybe a cold start video to hear what it sounds like could help other members solve your problem. Good Luck!!!

waxking1

I've got the Speeddriven tune on my CL65. I've been trying for over a month to get a file for the 100 octane tune with no luck. I have been happy with the 93 octane tune.

freestylebiker3

thanks everyone for trying to help me... it did cross my mind that the replaced coil rail from the dealer could of just been a bad one.. and the only way to check it is by getting another one and putting it in.. also i am limited to 91 octane pump fuel in los angeles california.. so my power will be diffrent then a 93 octane tune. but i am going to change my intercooler pump this week, i got a performance electric pump and i will see is the air temps will go down.....

i also stopped by my friends shop he has a very popular racing shop for bmws, he builds everything inhouse.. he makes clay models of intake manifold and ect and cuts them out of his huge CNC machine for all the supercharge kits he makes. also he makes racing heat exchangers for mercedes, so the owner was asking me if i would let him use my cl65 so he can build a proto type heat exhanger and a bigger intercoolers.. soo i think im going to let him use my car as a "dummy" to get a set of free intercoolers and heat exchanger.. once the project gets going i will build a new thread about it.. maybe if people like it i can make a group buy going for these kits...

1995E320Cab

Sounds cool, whats the name of the shop? You should start a new thread on this, if he's not going to use your car as a test mule he can use mine !!

MarkoCL65

The car will run lean with upgraded intercoolers without modifying the tune. That is assuming the upgraded intercoolers outflow the stock ones. Keep in mind this car does not have a MAF but map sensor.

freestylebiker3

thanks for the info i will keep those in mind MARKO

also the name of the shop is called RMS in van nuys california..

today i did a heat exchanger pump upgrade i will start a new thread on it

trag

Kinda late on saying this but i dont know how your 65 doesnt spin tires at or below 30mph,my 600 does from around 12mph to 50mph stock with the traction on,got videos of the yellow triangle to prove it.They are 0-60/20-80 runs and i was running around 95 oct (if that makes a diff ?) ,but the triangle stayed flashing never the less.Where is the thread about the prototype upgrades?

freestylebiker3

i put a boost gauge on my car and noticed i only have 14psi.. stock the car should have 22 psi max, i am loosing half of my boost and im sure thats why my tires wont spin over 20 mph.... also the proto type stuff should be up next week hopfully

RaceHorse

Good luck with new mods, and nice write up with pics on the pump. There are some writeups on too much flow with that pump and not enough time to cool off in the heat exchange. If I remember correctly a trunk res. is a simple solution with added cooling and volume.(Just read everything from V12GodSpeed haahaha) One thing I will strongly advise, (and I'm sure others will agree) Get the car sorted out first with your boost issues. If you start too many mods and a tune you won't know what is responsible for what. Check your intake temps if you think its the heat thats killing your boost. If your boost is still low and your temps are under control with the new pump, you know the deal...its something else. Your car should run really strong stock, and like an animal to with a tune. Good luck!!

freestylebiker3

thanks for the info.. yes i agree there is a chance of over pumping the system... and not having proper cooling from the heat exchanger... one thing i noticed was that the heat exchanger and aftercoolers has very small internal rails which slow down the flow by allot.. which makes me feel like it will have enough time to cool.... but yet again hard facts is what matters, on the mercedes computer my turbo temps and air temps were to high.. so once i get a chance to hook the computer back up, i will figure out if my temps are lower then before.also the car regulates the power going to the pump based on temp, which will turn on or off the pump to raise the temp or lower the temp......

the basic test i did yesterday was driving home from work on the freeway about 20 min.. i touched the aftercooler on the engine and they were super cold. and they use to be so hot you could not touch them... so just based off that i think it helped allot....

stock pump: 3.0 gpm

renntech pump: 9.0 gpm

my monster pump: 20.0 gpm

Flight Test

As long as the pump does not cause cavitation, an increase in flow will lower the intercooler temps. The heat transfer equation is below. As you can see if the flow rate increases the rate of heat transfer increases.

The rate of heat transfer, Q, is determined from the equation:
Q = WC (DELTA)T + W(DELTA)H
where
W = flow rate of fluid (lb/hr)
C = specific heat of fluid (Btu/lb/degrees F)
DELTA T = temperature change of the fluid (degrees F)
DELTA H = latent heat of vaporization (Btu/lb)
If the fluid does not change state, the equation becomes Q = WC DT.

Sometimes people get confused about the flow rate due to the fact that if the intercooler is super hot and the outside airtemp is low there is a larger cooling percentage across the core, but our goal is for cooler intercooler water temps which require a nice high flow rate. If the flow rate is very high it will reject quicker from the intercoolers. People sometimes comment that if the water goes through a radiator or intercooler too fast it will not have time to heat up, but it also goes across the heat exchanger faster so the temps stay low across the board which is good.

I remember an old elementary teacher of mine telling me hot water cools faster than cold water in the freezer and that if you have a hot bowl of water and a cold bowl the hot will freeze faster. I called him out on that one and made him prove it. While he had some facts correct (that hot water cools at a faster rate than cold water, due to a large delta T) he missed the point that the hot water must eventually cool to where the cold water started. In the end my nice cold water froze much quicker than his hot water much to his embarrassment.
This is similar to what people believe about coolant flow in cooling systems, unfortunately they are usually incorrect.

BUT..... There are always cases that deviate from the rules and that is why we test, test test!!

freestylebiker3

i did my usual 20-30 min drive from work and i touched the coolers and they were very cool to the touch, this new pump is very impressive...

and lol i feel like a dummy i always thought the cooler in the middle of the front bumper was the heat exchanger for the turbo, and i was wrong the turbo heat exchanger is sandwiched between the A/C condensor and radiator

Malones Perf.

The problem with your heat transfer equation is it must have constants in it, where in the this situation there is no constant and is ever changing so no calculation is viable. Sure after 1000's samplings and calculations you could come up with an average but again that is not to helpful with the near infinite variables. And it is most certainly possible to over flow any cooling system. For instance you need to know the volume of coolant held in the intercoolers in this situatation, volume of coolant held in the heat exchanger, lines, tank, anticapated heat creation and temperature, and flow rate of every component to at best loosly be accurate at calculating the correct gpm or lpm needed to work sufficently. The coolant must have enough time in the heat exchanger to be cooled down by whats known as the thermal heat gradient of the heat exchanger. If enough time is not given for this to occur the paritally cooled but still warm water travels back in a becomes hotter water and at this point cannot recover if the heat being created stays the same-"if you could maintain same load same conditions it would continue to rise in temperature" - Easiest way I can make to understand it is imagine if you covered 50% of your grill less air is able to make it to and threw the radiator causing coolant temperatures to rise in a controlled test same is true if coolant is passed threw the radiator to quickly.

Also in comment to hot water cools faster then cold water and the way your teacher interpreted it, of course thats incorrect. But it does takes the same amount of energy "calorie's or now commonly known as joules" to either heat or cool one gram of water 1 degree celcius. And again there are variables for instance atmospheric pressure and ambient temperatures. So im not sure how that relates at all to the coolant flow and over cooling discussion?

freestylebiker3

allot of interesting and usefull technical info here.. overall i think my setup worked perfect becuase my cooler do not get warm at all...