Oxygen sensors FYI.....
10-01-2005, 01:35 AM
#1
Oxygen sensors FYI.....
If you're in need of R&R your O2 sensors, Bosch has developed a generic universal sensor system. The sensors are OEM spec., the only difference is that they come with a "Posi-lock" system where you have to use the elecetrical plug from the sensor that you are replacing. I know the dealer can charge 300-400 bucks to change 1 sensor. You can get these sensors online for about $85. Essentially, you can replace all 4 sensors (highly unlikely that they are all bad, but still) for the cost of getting 1 sensor replaced at the dealer. For more info, check out the bosch website.
P.S. From what I gather, the front 2 sensors are the same and the rear 2 sensors are the same. So, if ordering 4 sensors, you would only order 2 types of sensors.
P.S. From what I gather, the front 2 sensors are the same and the rear 2 sensors are the same. So, if ordering 4 sensors, you would only order 2 types of sensors.
10-01-2005, 10:18 PM
#3
I suppose you'll only take Brand Name drugs as well, instead of generic. It's the SAME EXACT SENSOR YOU FOOL! Bosch makes the sensors for MB. It is the same exact sensor, minus the electrical plug. Thus, you use the electrical plug from your old sensor.
Maybe this will help.....
- You have 4 sensors in your car, 2 in front, 2 in back of cat
- all four sensors are exactly the same, except for their electrical plugs.
*Note* a correction from my first post....all four sensor are the same part number according to the bosch website. So, you'll be order 4 of the same exact sensor (if you need 4 that is).
Maybe this will help.....
- You have 4 sensors in your car, 2 in front, 2 in back of cat
- all four sensors are exactly the same, except for their electrical plugs.
*Note* a correction from my first post....all four sensor are the same part number according to the bosch website. So, you'll be order 4 of the same exact sensor (if you need 4 that is).
Last edited by TresX; 10-02-2005 at 02:27 AM.
10-01-2005, 10:26 PM
#4
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00 clk 320 and 3 hondas. Darn I am down to 4 cars.
Originally Posted by TresX
It's the SAME EXACT SENSOR YOU FOOL! Bosch makes the sensors for MB.
Yeah, I learned that a while ago when looking for O2 sensors for a Honda.
$155 at the dealer $29 at autozone. Exact same sensor minus the plug.
They actually sell it with the OEM plug for an extra $20 or so. Not sure if they do for MB as well.
10-02-2005, 10:34 AM
#6
If you can get under the car, all you need is a 17mm wrench and your hand. You unlplug the appropriate electrical plug and then un-screw/bolt the sensor from it's location. Install in opposite order.
10-02-2005, 08:20 PM
#7
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I went to my mechanic cause of the check engine light, he said I needed a bank 1 sensor 1 oxygen sensor. The light comes on and off occasionally, he said not to worry about it till the engine light stays on all the time. What effects on the car can an oxygen sensor cause? Should I get it replaced now or wait like he said? If I do order from Bosch, Which one should I order?
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10-02-2005, 11:48 PM
#9
check engine light
Originally Posted by TresX
You need a passenger side, pre-cat O2 sensor.
10-03-2005, 05:09 PM
#13
Unless you like wasting unneccessary gas. If it were a sensor after your cat, fuel trim functions wouldn't be affected, but since you have a bank1 sensor1 failure, you're burning unneccesary gas every mile driven.
10-03-2005, 05:13 PM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by TresX
Unless you like wasting unneccessary gas. If it were a sensor after your cat, fuel trim functions wouldn't be affected, but since you have a bank1 sensor1 failure, you're burning unneccesary gas every mile driven.
10-03-2005, 06:44 PM
#15
I don't think that would be much of a factor for him (not me & most), seeing is that all he wants is the light to go off. But the monetary factor on the other hand, affects EVERYONE$!$!$!$!$!
10-03-2005, 10:12 PM
#16
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
WTF? 
The mechanuic told a previous poster that is was not that important to replace the sensor ASAP. I was told by both Mazda and Volvo the CEL is not critcal and the O2 is not critical. I did not say or expect the car run perfect or perform at best.
Tres: I see you corrected your statement regarding the 2 front and 2 rear for the universal O2's; I agree. I called MB dealer and received four different P/N's. I assume there are four numbers because of the wire length (???) regarding placement in the exhaust. I called a Bosch distrbutor and received retail pricing similar to the dealer. Then I asked about the universal part. There is only one universal part for the MB - all four use the same universal part; number 15738. Later, I asked about an O2 for a Volvo 850T/1995 and received the same universal P/N; retail $139. P/N 15738. $85 on-line for a new 15738 is reasonable. They were not aware of "posi-lock". Distributor thought the sensor had a length of wire that would be attached to the OEM wire/ not plug. They did not have one to view and I have not viewed the MB sensor to know what to expect.
Next, I have not had my car scanned. That is why I was asking for information regarding the MB system of resets etc. I still need added information on resets, CEL's. The local mechanic normally cannot scan euro system cars. He could not scan the 850T. The factory dealer charges a large amount just to scan. Where do you have your MB scanned and what equipment is required? Is there software available to scan with a computer? I googled "bosch 15738" and got several hits; showing many vehicles. I was hoping to find the values or a description of operation so I could OHM the sensors to determine if they are operating properly. I do not know the technoly of how the O2 works.
10-03-2005, 10:48 PM
#17
Well.......
Originally Posted by wallstreet
Now this is an inteligent response.
The mechanuic told a previous poster that is was not that important to replace the sensor ASAP. I was told by both Mazda and Volvo the CEL is not critcal and the O2 is not critical. I did not say or expect the car run perfect or perform at best.
Tres: I see you corrected your statement regarding the 2 front and 2 rear for the universal O2's; I agree. I called MB dealer and received four different P/N's. I assume there are four numbers because of the wire length (???) regarding placement in the exhaust. I called a Bosch distrbutor and received retail pricing similar to the dealer. Then I asked about the universal part. There is only one universal part for the MB - all four use the same universal part; number 15738. Later, I asked about an O2 for a Volvo 850T/1995 and received the same universal P/N; retail $139. P/N 15738. $85 on-line for a new 15738 is reasonable. They were not aware of "posi-lock". Distributor thought the sensor had a length of wire that would be attached to the OEM wire/ not plug. They did not have one to view and I have not viewed the MB sensor to know what to expect.
Next, I have not had my car scanned. That is why I was asking for information regarding the MB system of resets etc. I still need added information on resets, CEL's. The local mechanic normally cannot scan euro system cars. He could not scan the 850T. The factory dealer charges a large amount just to scan. Where do you have your MB scanned and what equipment is required? Is there software available to scan with a computer? I googled "bosch 15738" and got several hits; showing many vehicles. I was hoping to find the values or a description of operation so I could OHM the sensors to determine if they are operating properly. I do not know the technoly of how the O2 works.
The mechanuic told a previous poster that is was not that important to replace the sensor ASAP. I was told by both Mazda and Volvo the CEL is not critcal and the O2 is not critical. I did not say or expect the car run perfect or perform at best.
Tres: I see you corrected your statement regarding the 2 front and 2 rear for the universal O2's; I agree. I called MB dealer and received four different P/N's. I assume there are four numbers because of the wire length (???) regarding placement in the exhaust. I called a Bosch distrbutor and received retail pricing similar to the dealer. Then I asked about the universal part. There is only one universal part for the MB - all four use the same universal part; number 15738. Later, I asked about an O2 for a Volvo 850T/1995 and received the same universal P/N; retail $139. P/N 15738. $85 on-line for a new 15738 is reasonable. They were not aware of "posi-lock". Distributor thought the sensor had a length of wire that would be attached to the OEM wire/ not plug. They did not have one to view and I have not viewed the MB sensor to know what to expect.
Next, I have not had my car scanned. That is why I was asking for information regarding the MB system of resets etc. I still need added information on resets, CEL's. The local mechanic normally cannot scan euro system cars. He could not scan the 850T. The factory dealer charges a large amount just to scan. Where do you have your MB scanned and what equipment is required? Is there software available to scan with a computer? I googled "bosch 15738" and got several hits; showing many vehicles. I was hoping to find the values or a description of operation so I could OHM the sensors to determine if they are operating properly. I do not know the technoly of how the O2 works.
in my opinion, you have done A LOT of research on a part that you're unsure as to whether it has failed or not. I don't know what kind of "local mechanic" you take your car to, but EVERY OBDII complient car in the US (german or korean!) can be scanned with a simple $45 scanner. As for Mazda and Volvo telling you that the CEL is not critical.......... I got this nice piece of marsh land for sale down in the Everglades,interested?
10-03-2005, 10:52 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by TresX
in my opinion, you have done A LOT of research on a part that you're unsure as to whether it has failed or not. I don't know what kind of "local mechanic" you take your car to, but EVERY OBDII complient car in the US (german or korean!) can be scanned with a simple $45 scanner. As for Mazda and Volvo telling you that the CEL is not critical.......... I got this nice piece of marsh land for sale down in the Everglades,interested?
10-04-2005, 12:19 AM
#19
Originally Posted by TresX
in my opinion, you have done A LOT of research on a part that you're unsure as to whether it has failed or not. I don't know what kind of "local mechanic" you take your car to, but EVERY OBDII complient car in the US (german or korean!) can be scanned with a simple $45 scanner. As for Mazda and Volvo telling you that the CEL is not critical.......... I got this nice piece of marsh land for sale down in the Everglades,interested?
10-04-2005, 12:25 AM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by wallstreet
As for the marshland. I sold mine for a large profit. You're not the guy from......? Thanx
10-04-2005, 12:30 AM
#21
Originally Posted by E55AMG99
LOL! Maybe they don't think it is critical becasue the engine isn't about to grenade. I think some GM's say "Service Engine Soon". How soon? Technically, it is part of the emissions control system but in this day of $3 and soon to be $5 gasonline, don't you want to squeeze as much fun out of every gallon?
If you are "squeezing " as much fun out of every gallon. Good. I agree. You are taking my simple request for a dialogue and information way off target. To this point you, a senior member with 2700 posts, have supplied zero information and a lot of cheap guff.
10-04-2005, 12:39 AM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by wallstreet
To this point you, a senior member with 2700 posts, have supplied zero information and a lot of cheap guff.
10-05-2005, 12:24 AM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
I’m an ex-wrench, and know a little something about O2 sensors. 
In an OBD II vehicle, you have one O2 sensor before and one after the cat (catalytic converter). The ECU uses two so it can tell when the cat is toast, which will be sooner rather than later with a dead O2 sensor. The ECU also uses the O2 sensors to stay in closed loop mode, which occurs at idle and/or cruise. With a dead O2 sensor your engine can’t go into closed loop mode and will remain in open loop indefinitely. If the car idles in open loop mode it will use more fuel than normal. The additional fuel may not all be burned and cause the cats to overheat, which destroys the washcoat (the internal catalyst material). Ditto at cruise.
My 2002 CLK430 uses Bosch Motronic ME 2.8 FI. Mazda use a licensed version of Bosch FI, but it’s not a Motronic system. That being the case, I don’t know how they can tell you anymore about what your FI logic will do when it encounters a dead O2 sensor than I just did. I have no idea what Volvo uses. The last Volvo I saw used a Bosch L-Jetronic system. That same Volvo would illuminate the CEL if you drained all the oil out of it and started the car. That's because it only had one CEL, and if it went on, the owner might want to know why before choosing to ignore it.
A resistance check can tell you if an O2 sensor is dead, but a faulty O2 sensor can still show resistance. Basically, it can pass the test and still be bad. I was taught the proper way to test an O2 sensor is to accelerate and decelerate the engine suddenly while checking the O2 sensor for voltage. It should produce 0.5 to 1.0 volts during acceleration and zero to 0.4 volts during deceleration. I was also taught to make sure and test the O2 sensors if the customer makes a request. That’s because if the wiring is good, and the ECU determines that the O2 sensor is not sending back a signal, then the O2 sensor is dead. Checking a dead O2 sensor allowed us to charge the additional diagnostic fee AND for having to install a new one. Don't cha just love service departments? Always ready to do whatever the customer wants.
Lastly, charging $400 for an O2 sensor is obscene. For that much money, you can buy a wide band sensor, a cheap gauge, and be able to check your air fuel ratios in real time. I don't know what you'd do with the information, but it would impress the heck out of your high performance friends.
In an OBD II vehicle, you have one O2 sensor before and one after the cat (catalytic converter). The ECU uses two so it can tell when the cat is toast, which will be sooner rather than later with a dead O2 sensor. The ECU also uses the O2 sensors to stay in closed loop mode, which occurs at idle and/or cruise. With a dead O2 sensor your engine can’t go into closed loop mode and will remain in open loop indefinitely. If the car idles in open loop mode it will use more fuel than normal. The additional fuel may not all be burned and cause the cats to overheat, which destroys the washcoat (the internal catalyst material). Ditto at cruise. My 2002 CLK430 uses Bosch Motronic ME 2.8 FI. Mazda use a licensed version of Bosch FI, but it’s not a Motronic system. That being the case, I don’t know how they can tell you anymore about what your FI logic will do when it encounters a dead O2 sensor than I just did. I have no idea what Volvo uses. The last Volvo I saw used a Bosch L-Jetronic system. That same Volvo would illuminate the CEL if you drained all the oil out of it and started the car. That's because it only had one CEL, and if it went on, the owner might want to know why before choosing to ignore it.
A resistance check can tell you if an O2 sensor is dead, but a faulty O2 sensor can still show resistance. Basically, it can pass the test and still be bad. I was taught the proper way to test an O2 sensor is to accelerate and decelerate the engine suddenly while checking the O2 sensor for voltage. It should produce 0.5 to 1.0 volts during acceleration and zero to 0.4 volts during deceleration. I was also taught to make sure and test the O2 sensors if the customer makes a request. That’s because if the wiring is good, and the ECU determines that the O2 sensor is not sending back a signal, then the O2 sensor is dead. Checking a dead O2 sensor allowed us to charge the additional diagnostic fee AND for having to install a new one. Don't cha just love service departments? Always ready to do whatever the customer wants.
Lastly, charging $400 for an O2 sensor is obscene. For that much money, you can buy a wide band sensor, a cheap gauge, and be able to check your air fuel ratios in real time. I don't know what you'd do with the information, but it would impress the heck out of your high performance friends.
Last edited by MarcusF; 10-05-2005 at 12:30 AM.
