otoupalik

LOL - it is damn hard to put out products that meet expectations and are reasonably priced, that is for sure.

On a standard header, you have a merge collector that will be pulse rate balanced. That means that the collector will scavange and accelerate as each hole pulsates. With the design you are using - a LOG manifold, you do not have that. So you are trying to push air from 2 holes into the same pipe without merging or controlling that transaction. With the pipes all the same diameter, you are going to create a blockage so to speak. As you add holes, you need to increase the size so that the air from the the front half and the air from the rear half of the motor can both flow equally (or close). As it is, the air from the front will hit the air from the back as they fire and you will have back-pressure as the pipes are not large enough to handle 2x the volume into the flange. Does this help at all - I don't think I am explaining it well and to do so would take much more then one simple paragraph. This is all available info on the net though.

See the attached pic we did of a manifold for a CLK430 - that might help.

thanks
brad

Ghostrider

I see what you are saying, but that is an inherent 'quality' of this type of application.

I also don't think the pictures are doing them justice. One of the reasons we went from the single main runner that had the rest of cylinders diverging into it, to this format where each cylinder mates with the next in sort of like mini Y-connectors. Not quite the same as the stepped approach but still a better design than before.

There are also a couple of other things in the works that will make the overall system !

otoupalik

No offense, but those are not anything like a mini y-pipe. There is no room for expansion and collection. You are just connecting the same diameter pipe.

I wish you luck, but physics and engineering will dictate.

You might want to show the builder this post and our pic and get his opinion. If it is counter, if I were you I would ask him for the engineering support. As I said, there is a wealth of information out there on this specifically.

Ghostrider

I know exactly what you are talking about, trying to avoid the conflict of pressure that is caused by the timing of the 2 counter firing cylinders because they will be exhausting almost simultaneously into the same exhaust manifold system. I was thinking that you were saying these would increase reversion and backpressure, but I think your saying they would not completely eliminate it.

I have seen your design before, but that is your design. It would be bad form and downright disrespectful to try and taut them as something I came up with.

I was just trying to make something better than stock and a little better than what I had before. I do believe this new design will provide a better flow characteristic than the originals I posted last year, along with the increased flow over stock. I hope you would agree? I am also working on the rest of the exhaust system compliment them, which would also help with reversion, as well as scavaging for the whole system.

Would you like to work with me on something? Or give me permission to use your design, and tweak it to make it my own?

otoupalik

Thanks for the reply.

Check you PM.

thanks
brad

Ghostrider

Just a quick heads up... Thanks to the information that was provided by Brad at EvoSport and the permission to use his design, I am in the process of getting a final design of the mani's completed. I will keep you posted on the progress.

If anyone has a preference or suggestion between ceramic coated mild steel and stainless steel let me know.

-Ghost

otoupalik

ceramic coated mild steel is your best bet!

2PHAST

I would choose which ever material won't crack under use, which seems to be a common problem with cheap headers.

Any ETA on these for the CLK320?

otoupalik

Yep - that is why we use mild coated. Mild has more elasticity and the coating will offer you typically a lifetime warranty against corrosion (at least ours does).

Thanks
Brad

Ghostrider

I am in the process of trying to get a set of OEM CLK320 manifolds... But I won't be doing much of anything until I get this next set installed and tested.

Ghostrider

I have been pondering this back and forth... Why does Kleemann use stainless for their headers?

Altough a person could coat a set of either material.

otoupalik

I cannot tell you why anyone uses what they do other then us.

When using stainless steel 304 you can run the risk of cracks. If not welded correctly and if not of a guage sufficient, you can easy have this problem.

We have seen this with one Italian makers BMW e46 M3 headers - LOTS AND LOTS of cracks.

The problem is that 304 stainless does not react as well as carbon mild steel to heat cycles. So with cars that have higher egt's (turbo, blown, high rpm NA especially), the 304 will heat and cool over and over and become more brittle then mild. This will possibly create cracks in the bungs, flanges, welds, etc.

I have seen this with many maker's headers.

We have never had a problem like this with mild.

The other benefits of mild, are in price. It is significantly less money.

The downside is rust and corrosion. But with the right coating (inside and out), you 100% eliminate that as a concern.

Food for thought....

thanks
brad

babyboigsxr

If you guys come up with headers for a CLK 320 ==>

Ghostrider

I have just ordered a set of OEM manifolds so once I get them we will start development.

Ghostrider

Blast from the past.... Just a brief history of what goes into product development.

Williams707

Funny and interesting timing but your competitor buddy friend AMS Performance is also advertising his Headers too

Please count me in on a set. I have 2 more interior mods to do then I am ready for a set of your headers. That was some amazing information from EvoSports and more impressively how they helped you with the design.

After that I will start to work on either a custom fabricated stereo system or do the turbo system. They both will run around the same price.
I'm leaning toward getting your headers 1st, stereo 2nd, turbo 3rd. I'm running out of things to do to the car. I guess if I get really bored, I could get a new set of the same rims and do what CLKFAN/MAN did and run 9.5 up front and 11.5 rear.

Ghostrider

That was pretty cool, but I wish he had spoken up a little sooner!! it would have saved me a couple of iterations. I did my stereo first, but nothing really worthy of The Williams, my car has lived such a Yeoman's life...

I look forward to the future!!

dlbehrns

I am very interested in a 320 set. Sounds like the mild, step up and coated might be the ticket. would the lowered cost of the mild offset the cost of coating? you guys are amazing. lets keep this thread on top. thanks

sick430

im still in!!!!!!!!!!!
when can we expect pictures

Williams707

Yes, please tell us the price and which one you went with for your car and why? Same reasons as what EvoSports or you went for looks?

dlbehrns

The picture of your headers sure looks like stainless. is the coating giving the headers that effect? would the decreased cost of using mild offset the cost of coating? sounds like the production of headers for a 320 is in ghost's hands or is Evo considering production? TIA.

whkento

Will, I just had to laugh when I read that. If you run out of stuff to do and really want to keep working, just let me know--we can trade CLKs for a while...

Ghostrider

They were mild steel and shiny coated... It's in my hands for now. Just need someone that is willing.

Williams707

Your funny It would be easy. I would take all my parts off of mine and put on yours. Then I will give you mine.

I'm WiLL ing, after I return from Business Travel. Going to Lacrosse WI for 2 weeks on Friday. Let me know the price for the mild steel shiny coated.

I'm running out of things to do to my car

sick430

Wait before you start making some for the 320(sorry Will). i want mine first!!!!!!!!!11

i need a set to make my car scare little kids and puppies when it roars by!!!!