SoCalCLK

Nice headers, Ghost. They look way clean. Please post those Dyno results!

Ghostrider

Hey Everybody,

My car is sitting at the dealership!!! For some reason they let a tech that had never installed headers or even remove/replace the stock manifolds work on my car.

There are some nuances to installing these types of part (manifolds/headers) that are inherent to MB's.

Here's what happened...

When I picked my car up the first day it was great no issues whatsoever. The next couple of day I here this spitting of air, that sounds like it's coming from underneath the car. It goes away when the engine heats up, but will come back once it's cooled down and you start it again.

My first thought was 'Great, blew the welds on the X-pipe or Y-collector!!' This is Friday afternoon, and I can't get it into the exhaust shop til Monday. I get it there, they take a look and everything's fine. Now I can't get into the dealership until Thursday; drop it off for the tech to look at. That evening the SA gives me a call the tech is saying the flange is warped and that's what's causing the the leak and ask what would I like him to do. I tell hime I would like you to let me speak to the tech; the tech says he has gotten the nut as tight as he dare and there is gap between the flange and the block. He then preceeds to tell me that he even went so far as to remove the nut/stud combo and replace it with a screw. I tell him to leave it and I won't to see what he is talking about.

At this point I shoot off an email to my fabricator and he gives me all the info I need about what he did wrong and what it would take to fix it. As it turns out, sometime when you are remove the manifolds the nut and the stud will come out together. A lot of techs think it's okay to put the put it back in this way as well, however; the proper method is to take the nut off of the stud, reinstall the stud into the block and then you can reuse the nut. Doing it the other way can cause the stud to crossthread and not allow for a good seal. They also sometimes double up on the gaskets or not get them lined up properly.

So when I get there Friday, I go ever my questions he knew nothing about what I just described above. Says he has installed a number of headers, but never on an MB. I look at the stud and you were threads had been flat spotted from not being seated properly in the block. He puts the car up on the lift and sure enough there's this freakin screw waving back at me like...

So now come Monday he has to take it all apart and inspect the stud holes so we can figure out the proper course of action. Needless to say I am not a happy camper!!!

I will post that info on the install when I get back to the office on Monday, and once I find out something I will let you all know.

-Ghost

Ghostrider

The heat will never warp the flanges we use. We use a water jet cut P&O steel that's flat sanded and trued after all welding is done. Chances are either the tech doubled the gaskets on the back cylinder and bent the flange of the gaskets or when the OEM manifolds were removed, the studs came out when the nuts were being removed.

Most techs believe its ok to not remove the nuts from the studs when reinstalling them. Well because of the flange thickness difference (1/4" to 3/8"); when the stud/nut combo is reinstalled, the holding depth needed for the 6mm stud is no longer there. So this will tend to pull the threads out of the head. The back cylinders are common to have the studs come out when the manifolds are removed.

Every Mercedes that we've done has had this happened. It’s the installation method afterward that makes the difference. The easiest way to tell is if the stud length is the same sticking out past the head of the nuts. If they are not all the same then the stud was not installed properly.


The factory exhaust manifold studs are already a high-carbon hardened steel; this is the same material ARP.

What you need to do is this:

Always tighten the bolts starting at the back of the engine, moving forward- start with the flange closest to the firewall, tighten both nuts, then move forward one flange, tighten the two nuts, etc. -Don't tighten all of the top nuts first, then all of the bottom nuts next- this is likely why you have an exhaust leak at the head. Torqueing from the back to the front will ensure the sealing surface of the header flange is square to the cylinder head on every runner as it is torqued down.

Dawson AMG

Any up dates with your car and the headers power add? I see my E55 use's different headers then yours but I do want to see the power gain of these custom headers you installed.

Ghostrider

Hey Dawson, I just picked my car this morning from the dealership!! Can you post a picture of your exhaust so I can try and see the difference??

Ghostrider

The standard torqueing method of from the center outward works as well...

E55 PWR

can't wait to hear the dyno results when they come. thanks

John 99CLK430

Man sorry to hear all your pain Ghost, did any updates yet? Is the leak aiight now? Hopefully we'll get some info soon.

Ghostrider

They had to totally redo the install!!! They used new studs, new nuts and new gaskets. There is no more leak and it sounds even meaner now!!

The dyno appointment is set for tomorrow at 9:30 in the morning so keep your fingers crossed.

John 99CLK430

Damn what a PITA but I bet your happy with the results now, post a vid if you can.

Can't wait for the Dyno results.

Ghostrider

Okay so I got to the shop for the dyno, and let the guy know I was there. They moved some cars around and eventually got mine up there. They were waiting for the dyno tech to get done on another car, once he did they got it all set-up. The downside is the one guy I was talking to didn't let the tech know to hook-up the tailpipe sniffer so I could get my AFR.

So to sum up the vehicle:

208 Prototype HFM
SC Delete
X-pipe/Y-collector
AMG airbox
Evosport pulleys

The car was run with my 19x10's, 265/30-19 Falken FK452. I did not have time to get my stock wheels on before my appointment.

I think the car could use some tuning!!!! Let me know what you think....

Dawson AMG

So what are the headers giving you in HP? What was your stock HP 275?

Ghostrider

Yeah 275 at the crank... I think it's down between 10 -15 horses from the wheels. But the headers are giving me a solid 15!!

I'm hoping some of the dyno readers will chime in and let me know how it looks.

E55 PWR

I really wish you did before and after, its hard to tell how much the headers made. Any word on when you will have a set available?

bbearden

Our cars make 275 HP at the flywheel. After losses through the automatic transmission, you will lose around 15-18% (~40HP) so you could expect to have around 230 to 235 HP at the rear wheels. Given this, your headers would make up to around 10 HP which is a solid gain, expecially if it is across the RPM curve.

MarcusF

It's going to be tough to determine the increase without a before dyno.

Stephen (SoCalCLK) was seeing 245HP at the rear wheels on a bone stock 2002 CLK430. Another regular poster ran 13.8's @ 102+ MPH on a stock 2002 CLK430. According to my drag calculator, 102+ MPH in a 3500 pound car requires a bit more than 275HP.

J Lucas

how could you not do a before run??

E55 PWR

+1

Ghostrider

Yeah, I remember seeing that, but he made his run without the air box....

Hey Marcus, what do the specs say about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times??

da_guitarist

Oooh...new times?

MarcusF

The 2002 MB USA press kit says 0-60 in 6.1. Both Road &Track and Automobile reported that same 6.1 zero to sixty back in April of 1999. Road & Track recorded a quarter mile time of 14.5 @ 99.5 MPH for the same article.

There's a slip at my website from some time ago. Bone stock at Sactown Raceway - 13.88 @ 102.4 MPH with the adaptive throttle reset, the ESP off, and no spare tire or jack.

Ghostrider

Okay thanks for the info...

I know what I need to do!!!

Ghostrider

Not to worry my friend, it will be taken care of.

Ghostrider

They can be made available whenever, but I know that everyone is waiting for some more concrete information. I hope to close this circle very soon.

Ghostrider

Alright I knew there was something not all the way right with the results. Meaning looking at my baseline and then the new dyno, I wasn't getting the results I should have. So I call the dealership to get my stock wheels out of storage and have them delivered so I could get the car re-dyno'ed to see what she could really do!!!!

So.... Without further ado, I present, The Results:

This is my first dyno from a year ago. I had the airbox, filters, and pullies on at this time.