mbenzman

I wouldn't ask you you to go snipe hunting!

John 99CLK430

LOL @ the first dyno result, I wish I ran that amount of power w/ an 55 box

I personally have to agree with you, the best way is to just run K&N filters and intakes, it runs fine on my car, plus you gotta make the box from the 55 fit into the 430.

Silverbillet

So does this means that the 430 airbox with k&n filters gets the same HP as the 55 airbox with k&n filters?

Didn't JoshK dyno'ed his car with these two setup and got 15-20 HP?

John 99CLK430

Well most certaintly you SHOULD get more power from what I hear out of the 55 box since it has a bigger air box? But it all varied, I'm sure JoshK can shed some light on this for us and prove us all wrong maybe.

da_guitarist

The box has slightly larger tubes, but the design of the box is fairly similar. The air is routed differently inside the 55 box (according to another post where someone opened them up). The volume is slightly larger. Dyno tested, it makes a difference, but only bout 5hp/tq at best, not the claimed 15 whp.

The 430 airbox is the worst of the 320/55 combos. The 320 gets almost the exact same hp as the 55, maybe 1-2 hp less, but with a hair more torque. But, the 320 airbox is in a position such that it shouldn't heat up as hot as fast (it doesn't sit ON TOP of the engine). It's in the bay on the left side of the engine behind the headlight. The deal is, it's within 2 hp of the 55 box, and maybe a hair more torque, but at a significantly lower price.

blackbenzz

Reporting for duty sir! I believe the part number is A113 094 01 03 There were some other numbers on it as well but I have no idea if they are relevant 01 3682/06 1978

da_guitarist

PS, I don't know what joshK did w/ his dyno, but we dyno'd back to back 2 runs each and gained little hp. The car was stock except the eisenmann muffler. Due to time constraints, we couldn't try it on my car which has an ECU tune along w/ the eisenmann, but didn't show much (if any) better performance than the other as a stock vehicle. The order was:

Stock (2 runs) about 234 hp 242 tq (10 am)
55 Box (2 runs) about 240 hp 247 tq (10:30 am)
320 box (2 runs) about 238 hp 250 tq (11:30 am)
played w/ tunings (4-5 runs) about 220 hp 230 tq (going down)
My car w/ amg box (2 runs) about 230 hp 240 tq (12:00)

As the day gets warmer, the pressure changes and the air density decreases, so you get less oxygen and therefore less fuel to get the same mixture. Also, the engine gets warmer, which heats the air up and decreases the oxygen intake. So we expect the power to drop as it gets closer to noon or 1 (the hotter times here in Atlanta). The runs should show the strongest at 10 and the weakest at noon. We noticed that when playing with the timing settings, it kept decreasing. We did not have time to put Greg's car back on to see what his results were again at noon. The colder the day, the more airflow and therefore the more difference. If you dyno up north in winter, you'll put down more #'s than down here this time of year. I doubt sincerely you can prove a car will get more than 8-10 whp off either of these setups without other mods.

gregory13lil

I guess its actuall time for me to chime in now LOL. I have actually been waiting on the email that contains all the different DYNO's along done throughout the morning, this way there is proof on what did what. I only have the 55 Airbox w/ K&N Air filters DYNO sheet and I will scan that tonight amd post it. This was done right after my stock run so the temps were the same..well the car was a little hotter. This setup netted me 244.6 RWHP and 249.8 Torque and I believe this was 6 more horses than my stock airbox (with stock paper filters). MBenzman and I also talked about the difference in filters and the K&N filter could have played a part in the increased numbers due to my stock paper filters.

As the day went on the weather ( and the car) got significantly hotter so the numbers were dropping lower and lower. My idea was to take the car off the dyno to let it rest and then put it back on with the 320 box and re-test but our time had ran out.

All in all it was a fun day and MBENZMAN it was a pleasure to meet you and I definitely learned alot from you!!

I have although reconfirmed my thoughts that I NEED A DA** 55 AMG..but all in due time. As soon as I get a copy of all the DYNO's I will post each and every one for everyone to enjoy.

Greg

Ghostrider

Can you list out what steps and procedures you took to dyno the cars????

da_guitarist

not sure what you mean. We opened the hood, put the air blowing towards the front of the car to cool the engine, had the rear wheels on the dyno and the car was chained down and the guy at DYNOLAB used his software to record and plot all the data...each time comparing and choosing the run with the highest #'s as best run.

mbenzman, being the technical leader, made sure traction was disabled, and the car was manually shifted through each gear and redlined in the final gear, very smoothly. The guy at the dyno did an awesome job. I've heard of MB's giving troubles to people on the dyno, but this guy did an awesome job.

gregory13lil

Well described!!! If you mean what kind of software or type of dyno machine then I will have to contact the Dynp shop unless MBenzman knows off hand.

mbenzman

That was an #6 and 7 of our dyno attempts to get a clean run of my e55K. It kept shifting down and we finally got it into dyno mode. I wonder what it would have put down if we had run it in that 58 deg. am air we had, instead of the last runs of the day.

The box pops on, the only thing that would have to be modified is the front cover that has the AMG on it so that it clears the oil filter housing on the 430's.

Thanks, I'll explore them. If you get a chance measure the opening and post a pic.

Bigger isn't better and none of these intakes are optimal for the 430 air demands, they are too large to boost any power. If you want to try something, build a single smooth intake tube with as long as you can 2-2.5" tubing, probably 2" is around optimal for the 430's demands.
Or for some real 430 gains, go with the 320 intake setup with a K&N, Kleemann headers, and a pair of 55 cams.

He was the best operator I've seen. He was pretty slick and nailed them pretty quick.
The runs were red lined in 4th, not 5th, this is to give the most actual 1-1 drive ratio figure.

It's a dynojet, the most popular type everyone uses here so a good comparison.


In hindsight since we are splitting hairs instead of any very notible gains, the 55 airbox had several advantages over the 430 box or any others. Gregg's 430 box had used, paper filters, and was heat soaked. I threw the 55 box on and ran it immediately, so it was cold with brand new K&N's in it, and cold intake tubes also. the 320 setup was run considerably later due to the mods required. Zack's 430 had the same exhaust, the 55 box (with a heat soak)and a chip, and didn't do any better in that afternoon air. So the time loss killed our test.
That my 2 cents.
The

Ghostrider

That is what I was looking for....

I usually unhook the ABS from under the hood. The manually shifting through the gears is the most important peice.

John 99CLK430

mbenzman, wait, I'm lost here, by 320 setup...you mean just a single intake?...

btw, that Kleeman heads + 55 cams sounds juicy, you run that setup?

da_guitarist

He has a 55 anyways.

Yea, the single intake w/ the box in the passenger side hole by the engine is the 320 setup. Has clearly higher power #'s than the 430 factory box, even at the elevated temperatures. It doesn't have the sweet look that the 55 box has (unless you chrome your manifold like Rich), but should have all the advantages: about the same hp/tq gains, less initial cost, only 1 K&N filter to purchase, doesn't heat up as bad b/c its not on top of the engine.

da_guitarist

But we didn't try the 430 w/ K&N's instead of stock. Could be mostly the filters even.

John 99CLK430

Ahhh okay, that explains cause I run the K&N filters doesn't seem that bad at all, lol that's funny a little 320 box pushing that amounts of power to the car STILL w/ just 1 little filter.

gregory13lil

Oh yeah we all forgot to mention that...MBemzman did actually unhook the ABS from under my hood for all the runs, as well as the manual shifting.

Greg

mbenzman

My CLK55 can suck 375-380 h.p. through the single 320 setup whereas the 55 box sucks power at that level. We need a large flow bench to test the ultimate cfm results.
Here's more food for thought. I mentioned this to Gregg. You boys should test the intake manifold vacuum at full throttle too. your throttle bodies may be restrictive (too small) and could benefit from that and a single tube. I suspect you guys have a 70mm opening throttle body and that may be an intake restriction you could improve on.

Ghostrider

But the 430's and 55's use the same part for the throttle body....

What would do to make that happen??

mbenzman

I haven't checked the part numbers but I wouldn't have been surprised to see them (M.B.) having installed a smaller one. Are you assuming they're the same?

Ghostrider

When is was looking for a throttle body upgrade I found that they were they same part. Atleast that's what the MB parts guy told me...

mbenzman

Alright you forced me. Fire your lazy parts guy. The part number is A 113 141 00 25 for the 430. It has a 69mm id.
The CLK55 has a part # A113 141 01 25 and it's opening is 74mm. I have them both sitting here.
I haven't tried this, but the wiring harness connector is different and will require rewiring.
Have fun.

Ghostrider

I already did!! Kept asking too many questions about why I was doing this or that...

If you can please post up a picture of the wiring harness connector. Would this be a good thing to add if say I were doing cams???

Ghostrider

A1131410025 - 1999 - 2000 CLK430

A1131410125 - 2001 - 2002 CLK430 (This one cost about 1/3 as much as the other one. Who knew...)

They are both used in a lot of vehicles though.