Houman

i checked and the top was not operational before before i did the hot wire.
and i checked again and the top still isn't operational after the hot wire.
when inside the car the relay i hear clicks on when pressing the button up or down but sounds like it releases right after and thats when the light starts flashing. if i press the button again i won't hear a relay again only flashing until i turn the ignition off and on again.

at the moment the top is down.. i finished the cycle manually. should i try disconnecting the battery for a while?
stupid question moment.. if i ran 12v to the motor would all sequences work correctly by hydraulic or does it need the controller to operate?

Top Hydraulics

Houman,

just putting power to the pump will not make the top move. The controller needs to activate the various solenoid valves in the pump to make this all work. Disconnecting the battery for a few hours can solve problems on older convertibles like the R129 SL-Class, as it removes some error codes in the volatile memory. I don't know how much it helps on the W208 CLK-Class. Note that the controller can remember most of its error codes until they are actively reset, and that the battery needs to be disconnected for an extended period to drain the capacitors in the controller.

Does only the pump run, or does the top actually move when you disconnect the connector on rear bow lock A 124 770 04 26?

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

Houman

the pump runs and the top has operating movement.

connected the battery and nothing works.. just flashing. disconnected the bow switch and the top started working. the bow opened and the top went into the trunk half way only. the motor still tried to push but nothing was happening and then the safety shut off again.
now this is funny.. i realized i didn't close the screw so i tried it again with screw shut closed and same thing the top only went into the trunk half way yet you can still hear the motor working.
i was under the impression if the screw was open.. and it was all the way open nothing should work?
when the top stopped going it wasn't stuck on anything.. i could move it in the back direction with one hand as my other hand was holding the button. its as if the solenoid responsible just stopped half way.
And i don't see a relation between this issue and the bow switch being unplugged.

Top Hydraulics

The rear bow lock micro switch gets triggered when the lock is open, but the switch is a "normally closed" type. That means, the rear bow lock should have an open circuit when the latch is open, and a closed circuit when it is closed.

Can you read the resistance (Ohms) on the rear bow when it is latched and unlatched, or post pictures of the micro switch on the rear bow lock?

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

Houman

the bow lock is about 500ohms when open and connected to controller.
full contact in closed position.

there is also the 3 way switch where there is a black brown and blue wire.
the blue has one contact at 380 ohms when switched.
the brown is 380 ohms in middle position and switched to one side.

Houman

Top Hydraulics

You should have someone with the Mercedes software read and reset codes for you - this is turning into too much of a guessing game.

Klaus

P.S. The pictures you posted are not showing the micro switch on the rear bow. However, it appears that the micro switch is working correctly.

Resistance on micro switches gets measured when disconnected from the controller - that gives you the open circuit/closed circuit reading, plus you wouldn't be damaging the wire insulation and risking wires later shorting to each other or to ground.

Top Hydraulics

Ah, the follow-on post with the rear bow micro switch came up while I was typing my response. Thanks for that, and the switch looks fine.

Houman

i take it this is not an OBDII thing? more like dealer. to read and erase the codes on the controller can they do that via port under dash or does the controller have to come out?

thanks Klaus for your assistance. ill keep you guys posted with updates.

Top Hydraulics

Correct, this is not an OBDII thing, and the soft top controller stays in the car. It needs to be done at a dealer or a good Indie who has Star Diagnostic. Again, have them read codes, erase codes, and tell you which codes are left in the end. Ideally, get a print-out.

More and more Mercedes enthusiasts are buying Chinese pirate versions of Star Diagnostic (SDS), which is available for under $500 these days.

camuri123

Anyone who can help!!!

I have followed every possible instruction in this trheat about fixing my soft function and believe my problem is with the S84/11 Soft Top locked switch.

My systems works almost perfectly, but the open switch light stays on when the car is stopped, it does make a quick beeping noise when I start driving and then it blinks.

Whan I open the top the windos do not automatically go down, so I have to lower them with the normal open/close switches. after that the soft top opens and closes completely with no problem with the 3excpetion that the light stays on as indicated above.

I have tried finding the S84/11 switch and connector as per the WIS instructions, but cannot seem to find it anywhere. Instructions say the switch is located on top of the windshield frame (That's what I understand), but have teared that section apart and did not find it.

Can anyone help with pictures showing where the opsition of the switch is as well as the position of the connector???




Many thanks

Serndipity

camuri123

The thumbnail you enclosed is for entirely replacing the S84/11 soft top locked left limit switch. Doing so requires removing the A pillar molding , seals etc.. for access to the switch's connector/wiring harness.

While the problem can due to a faulty switch, faulty wiring connection (e.g. at the connector in the A pillar or at the controller), a common problem has been that the switch or locking handle is loose and out of adjustment.

If the 3 mounting screws have loosened up you can get numerous symptoms. For example:

1. Intermittent contact can occur when going over bumps, causing your windows to suddenly open.

2. Opening the top with the locking handle does not actuate the switch and the controller does not know that the roof has been unlocked from the window frame.

The indicator lamp on the main switch (e.g. always being on and/or blinking) provides basic fault information and is explained in a thumbnails in post #16, in this thread.

Removal of the panel to access and inspect the switch is very easy.......see post #6 at:

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...hemselves.html

camuri123

Many thanks Serndipity,

From the information on post #16 it looks like I have one of the following:

Continuous illumination of S84 switch:
- Control Module (N52) Defective
- Fuse for circuit 30 defective
- When soft top compartment cover is not properly locked.
- Line discontinuity to the power soft top switch.

Flashing frequency = 1 Hz of S84 switch while vehicle is operated)
- Soft top is not properly locked

In hopes that the N52 Control module is not defective (The Softtop operates welol throughtout the rest of the cyccle) and assuming the power is OK to the power soft top switch as I can still operate it. I think the Softtop is not making good contact that detects that the soft top has been fully closed.

I will take a look and see if there is any misalignement on the S84/11 switch and will recheck fuse of circuit 30.


I will post my findings.

Serndipity

Continuous illumination, when the man switch is not pressed, indicates that the soft top compartment cover '''''''OR THE SOFT TOP''''''' has not properly locked.

You're also getting the flashing lamp, while the vehicle is being operated, which also indicates that the soft top has not been locked to the window frame.

The controller knows if the soft top has been properly locked via switch S84/11. Therefore, when you physically unlock the roof, from the frame with the handle, your windows do not lower because the controller is still waiting to receive the last step required of the roof being closed and locked sequence. In order words, the controller will not perform the first step in opening the roof (e.g. roll down all the windows), until it know that the last step in closing the roof has been performed (e.g. closing and locking the roof to the window frame).

Additionally, you previously said that after unlatching the locking handle, if you open the windows using the window switches on the center console, your roof opens and closes normally. This means that the controller and fuse in circuit 30 is not the problem.

While the problem can due to a faulty switch, faulty wiring connection, a very common problem has been that the switch or locking handle is loose and out of adjustment.

From the link I provided in my prior note, the removal of the panel required to access and inspect switch 84/11, is very simple.

Posting your findings, will be most welcomed, as it will help with the capacity and ability of this thread, to help find and repair problems with the CLK series power roof.

Houman

hey guys.. update.

just went for a star diagnostic at a really good reputable shop and nothing popped up.
as in the control module didn't even read! as if it doesn't even exist!
so i asked him what he would do in this case... he showed me a few pins to check for power to make sure the module is receiving power and it powers up.

I'm going to check that out and see.. other than that any suggestions ?

Serndipity

Huuman....in your initial post, you said that sometimes your power roof works, but mostly not.

Read this thread https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...top-fixed.html

In the diagram, there are 3 fused power roof circuits, 2 of which supply voltage to the controller (e.g. #15 in fuse block F1 and #11 in fuse block F4). These are show in the far left side of the diagram. Note: Fuse #13 in fuse block F4 provides power to the pump motor, via the relay contacts (e.g. this fuse does not supply voltage to the controller).

I would carefully inspect the 2 fuses that supply voltage the controller. If they check out OK, then check the controller's ground returns, from the connector to the chassis ground point (W7 in red box), which is also needed for the controller to power on. Note: The controller ground return circuitry is shown in the upper right corner of the diagram.

Houman

checked those fuses and they check out okay. the guy who did the star diagnostic told me to check pins #4 and 14 for power and 51 52 for ground. he said there should be small numbers on the connector indicating pins but i don't see any and can't seem to find a diagram.
check it out..

Houman

in the mean time I'm going to do the old nintendo game trick and blow in it and put it back!

Serndipity

Yes, those are the correct connector pins that supply power and ground to the N52 controller.

In the electrical circuit diagram I pointed you to, N52 is shown across the top. If you enlarge it, pin 14 receives voltage through fuse #15 in fuse block F1, pin 4 receives voltage through fuse #11 in fuse block F4 and pins 51 & 52 go to ground. Additionally, the color coding for the respective connector wires are also show, from which one should be able identity the needed connector pins. However, the resolution of the diagram was to poor to decipher the color codes.

Perhaps with access to the MB WIS workshop manual, you might find a pictural of the connector showing the pin assignments and/or be better able to determine the respective wire color coding.

Houman

yeah.. i searched many different google phrases still trying to find a pic assignment for the N52

Houman

I'm having no luck on the N-52 controller pin out numbers.
anyone have a diagram to view?

Frolius

Hi,

I got a cheap replacement motor and found an easy protection against burning it when the relay gets stuck. Total cost 75€. I want to share my findings, so this is what I did...

On another forum I found out that there are several other convertibles made with the same (or similar) motor that fits your W208 pump.
link: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/bodyw...or-repair.html
I got my replacement from a VW Golf III on the local scrapyard.

The mechanical part:
I would advise against adjusting the drive end of the motor. The VW has a slot in the shaft which fits over a small shaft in the pump. Adjusting the drive shaft of the VW motor to have the flat cuts like your W208 motor would in my opinion weaken the shaft too much for a long lasting repair.
In stead I adjusted the small metal coupling that fits between the W208 motor and pump. I drilled out the slothole to 10mm so it fits over the motor shaft, and hard-soldered the small VW pump shaft in the center. Now the unmodified VW motor can drive the unmodified W208 pump with the hybrid coupling.

The electrical part:
First, the VW pump does not have the purple wires for the thermal protection. I left them isolated and unconnected.
Second, I extended the wiring and moved the pump relay to a more accessible place next to the fuel pump relay in the trunk. The relay connection can be slid onto the fuel pump relay connection and held in place with a small screw or some glue.
Third, I added an extra relay, powered from the fuel pump power connection, which interrupts the motor current when the engine is not running.
This way you always need to run your engine in order to open the roof, but when the roof pump relay gets stuck you can stop the motor by switching off the ignition, saving your motor.
Running your engine when using the roof pump is also better, more voltage (14.4V from alternator) means less current for the same power requirements.
I used circular crimp terminals to be able to easily adjust or take out the wiring when so required. When the roof pump relay burns you can swap it with the extra relay and connect the black wire from terminal 87 of the roof pump relay to the extended wiring. Now you can operate your roof without protection until you buy a new relay... quick temporary fix just in case.
It is also important to be able to change the polarity of the motor when testing it. For the VW motor the black wire is plus, the white is minus.
When testing this loosen the cap from the oil container, so you don't accidentally pressurize it.
The extra relay will not get stuck, when it switches there is no power yet, so it doesn't pull an arch like the pump relay does, so the contacts won't weld together.

So, that's about it I think. Hope it helps someone.
I added some drawings to clarify the above.
Enjoy...

regards,
Frolius

Top Hydraulics

Good idea to have the extra relay that allows the pump to run only when the engine is running.

I am not knocking what you did, but want to make everyone aware that it is only a compromise repair.

Here are the drawbacks on the conversion you made:

1) There is no such motor in the US. I would know, since we work on over 30 brands, with multiple pump models per brand.
2) The motor you are using has far fewer windings on the armature, which will make it overheat even sooner (because the motor is essentially less powerful - if comes from a convertible that has a smaller roof and only two cylinders for roof actuation). Be careful not to use it for repeated opening/closing cycles without it having a chance to cool down.
3) There is no match to the noise reduction in the CLK pump electric motor. By noise reduction, I mean electrical noise/spike filtering that protects the electronics in your car.
4) This setup has no thermal protection. The CLK's thermal protection is not very good, but it works in many or most instances. For example, the computer would not allow the pump to start another cycle if the temperature reading was already high.
5) On the motor shaft adapter modification, note that this change has to be very precise. If there are any metal shavings released, then this will ruin the pump.

Klaus

Top Hydraulics

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

Frolius

You certainly have a point there Klaus. The extra relay is more a precaution than it is a repair. This way, when the **** hits the fan (or the relay) I am at least able to turn it off before the motor gets fried.

True, I did only find European cars with similar motors.
Luckily they have Top Hydraulics in the US ;-)

I didn't open the motor to compare, but you're probably right. During testing I opened/closed the roof 5 times in a row checking the temperature after every opening/closing cycle. The increase in temperature is exponential, a 6th cycle would have been risky. However, when operating normally this shouldn't be much of a problem.

Again, I didn't compare the 2 motors, but since the motor is powered directly from the battery I am fairly confident that most of that noise would be absorbed by the battery. If I would get in any trouble with this I'll post it...

If you really want a thermal protection I guess you can attach a temperature switch to the motor cover and connect it to the purple wires. I didn't bother, like I said, it should be ok for normal operation.

Very true, a metal chip could easily block your pump and as a result your motor would fry again in notime. In addition, the shaft should be positioned exactly in the center of the coupling and the solder must flow evenly around it to avoid creating too much of an unbalance. An unbalance can cause problems over time in the bearings of the motor and the pump.

So, at the end, all advise is good, but it's your brain and your hands that do the job, take your time and use them well and you should be ok...

comptronix

first of let me say WOW what great posts about the top on this great car.
I just bought my first Cabriolet today a 2002 320clk and my top works great compared to some of the things I have read. So here is whats going on I unlatch my top operate button to open and top starts moving , and when the top get about above my head it stops I push it a little and it goes on to open , closing does not have that issue.

thanks in advance guys