FatTony001

What's an TCU flash? like a ECU tune, chip?

Klinh

Yes and only on the AMG cars. That's why the AMG cars tranny shift 30% faster. On high power HP car like the 65 engines, not only it shift faster but it also got others feature like controlling how much TQ/HP applied to 1st, 2nd...etc. gears. TCU (I believe) stand for= transmission-control-unit.

LeeRod80

Just ordered a Sprint Booster from here! Less expensive than other places, $261.62 shipped!!

FatTony001

You know your Mercedes stuff

AcSmash

I read every post on this thread, I will be getting a sprint booster real soon, I hate the lag time in my car when I'm in automatic mode. In order to perform certain manuevers I have to quickly shift into manual mode and downshift to that extra boost...

SickSpeedMonte

Guys, its a signal amplifier. There is a white paper that I can dig up that proves this. Someone datalogged the electronic throttle signal and the TPS voltage, as well as the the throttle signal output and the conditioned output from the sprint booster. All it does is amplify the signal by 30% across the board (non-AMG I believe)... it does absolutely nothing in the way of reducing throttle "lag" (I am defining lag as the time delay experienced between pressing the throttle pedal and feeling a jerk (jerk = change in acceleration, the first time derivative). You will also lose the last 30% of your throttle. When you push past 70% throttle, there will be no response because the throttle is already wide open.

So what it will do is make the car feel more responsive than what you are used to, but the same exact experience could be had by driving around with a heavier foot. The SB does not enable you to do anything that you can't do without it... and the fact that they are selling an op-amp for $250 is just disgusting. If you know a little bit about electronics, you could build one for less than $15. I'd bet that whatever OEM wiring connector you'd need would be the most expensive part of the whole project.

Oh- one other thing to consider. The throttle pedal has a pair of sensors (probably potentiometers) so that if one fails, the vehicle is still driveable. If the sprint booster does not independently amplify both of those signals, then the SB becomes a single point failure component which can disable the car. You could always just uninstall it, if you can figure out what the problem is and it doesn't happen at a time when you need to throttle out of a trouble situation.

Edit, here is the paper.

https://mbworld.org/forums/3259426-post1.html

AcSmash

Intersting post Monte, but you also mention a $15 alternative which would be what?

Klinh

We all know that but the car still sometime fail to response/delay usually on the first try where the Sprint Booster never fail but alway with an instant response when you tap the gas paddle even when the engine is cold. You rare can do that when the engine is still cold on a stock car. Btw, the rest of the stuff you said has been known.

SickSpeedMonte

Buy a pair of operational amplifiers and a few carefully chosen resistors and make your own. I say to buy a pair so that way you retain the redundancy of the two signals, which is safer.

Op-amps and resistors are cheap. The electrical connectors (if MB specific) will probably be the most of your expenses.

If you know the rest of what I said, then how can you find it even possible that the sprint booster lives up to what you claim it can do? How can simply amplifying the signal change the time delay?

Please explain to me how adding some sort of mystery black box between the throttle pedal and the computer can make the computer get the signal any faster than electricity passing through wire.

The lag is in the computer processing the signal and sending a voltage to the throttle actuator. I can assure you, the signal traveling through the wire travels at close to the speed of light... there's no improving upon that to reduce lag.

SickSpeedMonte

AcSmash - The absolute easiest way to make one would be to take a commercially available one apart and duplicate it. Reverse engineer it so to speak.

Klinh

Yes, it that simple on paper but the guys that went out of his way to do the test wouldn't do the simple resistors mods(as he mentioned) on his car to do a comparision test? There's more then just a resistors inside that big box which no one ever open one up (inlcuded the guy that did the test) to see what really inside. Also the orignal test were done on "manual tranny" sprint booster, not the "automatic" version or the "Amg" version. Wrong version tested on the wrong car.. His reason, because he couldn't find the right spring booster for his car when he did the test.

Klinh

1) Because I try the mods and many others that try it, agreed it reduce the throttle response lag. Maybe you should try the mods before giving your opinions based on a theory.


2) Agreed that the improve is not signal traveling through the wires but the signal send from the ECU to the throttle actuator because the engine doesn't even sound the same when compared to full throttle without sprint booster. Should you think there's more then just a resistors inside that box?

SickSpeedMonte

1.) I dont need to swallow a sugar pill to know that its all in my head...

2.) You're kidding, right? (Well, first of all, I said it has an op-amp. Resistors alone wont amplify the signal.)

Second of all, at wide open throttle, there is no difference what so ever. You can only open a butterfly valve until it is perpendicular to the flow. After that, you are closing it again. You tell me how plugging in a box changes that
I'm assuming you looked at the paper that I linked. Did you see how the TPS value was unchanged after 70% throttle application with the SB installed? As far as the engine is concerned, if the throttle is wide open, it's wide open. The engine doesnt care what some little box is doing upstream. How can anything sound different?

SickSpeedMonte

Oh, and since you tried to attack my credibility based on an assumption that I have never tried it...

I am basing my remarks on test data, professional vehicle testing experience, years of hotrodding, basic mechanical and electrical undersanding, and an engineering degree. There is no theory involved here... a few laws sure, but theory no. Not seat of the pants, "this feels so much quicker" reaction (where a change was flat out expected to begin with.) I will never waste $250+ on a DC signal amplifier of this sort/purpose, and so I guess you will always be able to say that I dont know what I'm talking about because I didn't hand over loads of cash.

Klinh

[QUOTE=SickSpeedMonte;3495174]1.)
Second of all, at wide open throttle, there is no difference what so ever. QUOTE]



You missed understood me here. Yes, at WOT, there's is no difference on between the two on the throttle response. What I'm questioning is, why is the engine sounded so lounder/meaner with the Sprint booster then without Spring booster at WOT? It scare the crap out of me the first time I floor it. There must be something inside the box then just 2 resistors, would you think?

Klinh

I think anyone can because, you never try it, never open the box up to see what exactly inside the box but your assumption that there's only resistors inside the box. Btw, based on your experienced, you do alway formed a test results/opinions without ever doing a real world test? Like I said in the past, I have not seen 1 single person that try the mods and based on the test data in the link and confirm that the sprint booster does not do a thing. If you or anyone that has done both testing, I would respect your opinions.

SickSpeedMonte

Yes, there are op-amps in there too. None of it makes the engine sound any different at WOT. There's nothing in there that could possibly open the butterfly valve more than 90*. At part throttle, it will seem to sound different, only because it is actually more throttle than you think you are giving it.

I've given the facts, they are out there now for people to make informed decisions. Enjoy your car

SickSpeedMonte

I really don't need to. Independent testing has documented what goes in, and what comes out (electrical voltage). It's called a "black box" in engineering practice... you really dont need to know the specifics, but you know what it's function is. Based on that, there's no way that everything that you claim can be true.

Klinh

How do you possible know what engine sound like at part throttle, WOT...etc when you never even thry the mods yourself? Well, here's mine real world test my friend, at part throttle the engine actually sounded normal like part throttle without the sprint booster. But at WOT, we both agreed that there's no signal difference but it a fact on my cars that the sprint booster some how make the engine sounded much much louder. These facts you CAN'T argued with me because you never try it on your car yet to know what the engine sound like. There must be something in side that box there just 2 resistors theory.

Klinh

........and the decisions was that alot people that try the mods and LOVE IT. So why don't you just let the people enjoy the mods? We respected your opinion that it not worth the money for you. What your points of bashing the mods? Or are you trying to say that you're smarter then some us.

SickSpeedMonte

Did you ever consider the fact that you have a vested interets in people thinking that this mod makes sense scientifically? Otherwise, you just wasted a ton of money on something that does not enhance the performance of your car, and you look uninformed to everyone that has read your claims.

I may have never tried it personally, but

1.) I understand how it works and what it does (you openly admit that you do not and you make claims that I have yet to see any other SB user make)

and

2.) I don't care whether it works or not. I have no interest in it working or not working.

I havent tried it, but thse guys did:

https://mbworld.org/forums/3316395-post52.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/3317615-post56.html

And with the understanding of how this thing works, they decided not to buy it as well. And Glyn is an extreemely credible member of this board. Everyone trusts his advice when it comes to fixing their car... I don't understand why anyone would ignore him on this. You can try to alienate me from the rest of the community by accuisng me of belittling others all you want, but the facts are the facts.

Klinh

You got 2 people with a quickie test drive on someone else cars who really didn't said that they didn't like it but only not worth the $300. Give us the link to the whole "thread" so we can read what others is saying. Dude.....let just move on.

SickSpeedMonte

"Thread":

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ic-review.html

I'm not hiding anything by selecting posts... just trying to make it simple and clear.

LeeRod80

Well, I installed my SB today. I was going to create a DIY thread, but it's ridiculously easy to install on a W210.....just Plug & Play!

The throttle is so fun now, minimal to almost no lag...it just GOES! Definitely worth the $260!!





Stop being a buzz kill dude! We are happy with it, so quit your b*tching! Try it, then talk!

Klinh

Yes, the pre-2000 model mercedes is the easiest because it inside your engine bay and you really don't have to remove anything excepted the cable. The post-2000 mercedes models require that you remove the gas paddle. Btw, which sprint booster did you order for your W210 E55?