mis3

[QUOTE=JeffreyP;5035969]Crap. My CLK is high mileage, close to 150K miles now.

I have a similar experience years ago with a 1999 Honda Prelude. After 75K miles, I switched from regular oil to synthetic. I soon noticed that I was loosing oil significantly. The dealership had no clue why. Everything went OK after I switched it back to regular oil. My thought was the mileage of the engine was too high to switch motor oil.

Glyn M Ruck

Firstly. Engine oils & transmission fluids serve a different purpose & cannot be compared in this way.

If your Honda was not leaking oil it probably had a dirty ring belt on the pistons. Frequently when changing engine oils to higher specification more detergent oils the oil consumption will rise while the better product cleans up the ring belt & free's up rings & then will stabalise again. This phenomenon is well known in the industry. The only other possible explanation could be vastly varying viscometics. Were both oils the same viscosity grade?

Don't worry about the mileage on your CLK. As long as you have looked after the transmission you will have no issues if the change is done properly. Even if it is a half change. The elastomer compatibility & seal swell characteristics of the old & new fluids is identical.

If a transmission had not been serviced at all in 150K miles and dirt/wear debris had somehow bypassed the filter/filter had failed, then if a flush shows excessive wear debris beyond the filter all the dealer has to do, to do a proper job, is flush the transmission, cooling lines & cooler in the radiator AND remove the valve body & clean the shift plate.

A transmission that has not been serviced at all for 150K miles would likely have some damage done to it. That is simply too far to hope for anything better.

A transmission that has been serviced every 39K miles even if only a half change was done & the vehicle was not used for towing would be just fine.

mis3

I did the partial flush on Feb-2009, when the car was about 90 k miles.

I remember I had to insist on the change. The SA kept telling me not to do it because the ATF was lifetime.

Glyn M Ruck

So this vehicle has done 150K miles & never had a full change. That's not good but you are lucky it is a 722.6.. You really should do a full change.

mis3

To my defence, I did follow MB service schedule until I started to read this forum.

I did ask my SA but he insisted that we should not touch the ATF, it's lifetime!

I asked earlier today why they could not do the full flush. My SA said they don't have the machine to empty the torque converter. I kind of prefer to do all my works in the dealership.

Glyn M Ruck

It's not your fault. It is the fault of MBUSA & their dealer network. MBUSA came out with this filled for life nonsense. In the rest of the world change interval has always been every 60K Km's or 39K miles. People on the W203 forum do a full flush themselves. It is not difficult and does not really require any special equipment.

This is why I believe so much nonsense is spoken about failures after fluid changes in the US. It is a misdiagnosis of the problem. If your transmission now fails - everybody will say - Oh it's the fluid. It's not the fluid, it is rank neglect encouraged by MBUSA. You should see all the recent transmission failures on the W203 forum. Moreso on the 7G 722.9 because it is a more sensitive unit & MBUSA also originally claimed it was filled for life.

As an example. South Africa consumes two thirds of the number of MB cars that the US does every year so we are a representative market. We never have transmission failures. But the cars are under Motorplan here and the transmissions all have their regular services paid for by MBSA.

MBUSA has a lot to answer for.

mis3

I am in Toronto Canada and the dealerships here share the same thoughts as MBUSA. I would think that they all follow instructions from Germany, the mothership!

I will just do what I can now. I am OK if, like you suggested, 236.10 and 236.14 fluids can mix well in the transmission.

In general, I do trust my dealership. Service and parts are expensive but they do good work. I never have any issues with them. Of course I would like lower prices but I don't know any local indie. I know of McNally which is a reputable indie here in Toronto but last time I checked, their oil change was as expensive as the dealership. I called them a few months ago about ATF flush and they would not even tell me what ATF they used.

JeffreyP

[QUOTE=mis3;5036633]Sorry, but I am not sure if you missed my intention. My suggest is not to mix 236.14 with 236.10 if you car is approaching 150,000 miles. You want to do a full flush but not a machine flush. Although, the two fluid are similar, the new fluid is much thinner so the new fluid may not be best fit for older 722.6 tranny. Some had to remove the 236.14 fluid since it caused hard shifting, once 236.10 was back in, the harsh shifting is gone.

I will offer my opinion in the safest possible way here: use MB 236.10 fluid (not 236.14 and backward compatible) - you can order them at autohausaz.com. Do a pan drop, change filter, then pump them all out at the coolant line for a complete flush. To me 39000 mile is way too early, I flushed mine at 70000 miles and it is still going strong at 130000 miles but I was planning on doing the flush in about 10000 mile or a year.
I know a couple of gentlemen who had over 500,000 miles on their tranny with only two ATF changes, so these trannies are really built to last.

Rudeney

It always amazes me at how people will in one breath justify buying a Mercedes-Benz vehicle by extolling the virtues of its unsurpassed engineering, and then in the next breath, claim how ridiculous it is to use their recommended high-priced fluids. Honestly, if you want to use cheap oil in your car, either don't buy a Mercedes-Benz, or, admit the real reason you want/bought one is because it's a status symbol.

mis3

I went to autohausaz.com and I found these 2 ATF for my car:
Fuchs OEM
Genuine Mercedes (backorder)

I highly doubt that they would ship to Canada.

Does anyone here know where I can get this in Toronto, in Canada?

Glyn M Ruck

Sorry - I should have picked up from our previous conversation that you were in Canada. Complete your profile. You might have a good dealer but NA does not listen to the "mothership" & this makes Stuttgart mad. They change nomenclature on vehicles & always seem to consider that NA buyers will not keep their cars very long so they don't require the same level of care. Only when it costs them do they react like 722.9 warranty claims - so they say change once at 39K & then forget - great - we've got it out of warranty & wash our hands of the problem. ROW has always been & still is EVERY 39K miles.

If your dealership is good why can't they perform a WIS listed flush. My Benz owned dealership can do it in Cape Town - why not Toronto?

Glyn M Ruck

+1000^ And in the US you pay half the price ROW does.

mis3

I actually ssked my SA. He said that they did not have the machine the empty the torque converter.

Just to be safe due to the the high mileage, I was hoping to find the old fluid to do a partial flush. If I cannot find it, I would try to get an indie to do a full flush with the either fluid.

BTW. I just spent the last hour on some Canadian online stores and I could not find the 236.10 fluid.

Glyn M Ruck

[QUOTE=JeffreyP;5036975]
Hear we go again with misinformation. Please read Johnand's Transmission thread.

The new fluid is not thinner than the old fluid. It is higher VI and is the same viscosity as the old fluid at operating temperature. The 236.14 fluid also maintains it's viscosity for longer in service. One of the design goals of the product. These transmissions also adapt to the new fluid in a short while. It is possible to have a slightly more crisp shift initially but the TCU will adapt to the fluid in the first 100+ miles of use. The alternative is to reset adaptions with Star after a fluid change. Johnand recommends this. It can be done or you can wait & let the transmission adapt itself.

These trannies are built to last with proper servicing. Please listen to Benz Stuttgart & change the oil every 39,000 miles or 60,000 Km's with filter. We have seen many oil samples from these transmissions at 60,000 Km’s with the fluid looking very tired, oxidised & contaminated. More so obviously with the older generation fluids that do not use the same quality of base oil as the latest generation.

The main reason to do a flush on the 722.6 is to drain the torque converter because Benz removed the TC drain plug in 1999 & put it on the 722.9 in 2006. The torque converter holds nearly half the oil charge on these transmissions. We now find that lazy US dealers are not changing the torque converter on 722.9's even though there is an easily accessible drain plug via a removable rubber plug in the bell housing. If they only charge you for 4 or 5 quarts/litres of fluid you know they have done a half job.

VI is the rate of change in viscosity of an oil/fluid for a given change in temperature. In layman's language High VI oils thin out less at high temperatures than Low VI oils.

Glyn M Ruck

Fuchs probably had the last 236.1 product on the planet. It is withdrawn because it is obsolete & no longer required. You might still find some Fuchs Titan 3353 which was the 236.12 product lying around. It was the early generation product for the 722.9. Please just use the 236.14 product and at your mileage I really recommend a full flush. When we first talked you said how long it had been since your last change. I did not realise you were at 150K miles

JeffreyP

All right, mis3, please check out this thread. I believe it will give enough information and confidence to determine what you have to do. Please don't submit to all these must be, have to use MB approve and status symbol etc...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210...d-722-6-a.html

Yes, there is a little status in owning a MB, but it not unsurpassed engineering any more. Windows regulator broke every other months, spring perch, SBC, suspension air pump, harmonic balancer, rust, engine mounts, tranny mount, pulleys, radiator, CPS etc... are on a long list of problems with newer Benz's. If you would attack anyone looking for different ways of doing thing, then please bring your car in anytime a light bulb is out - VISIT WORKSHOP. Oil change is $300 and ATF flush is $500. CPS is $400, HB is $500 etc... Yes, that's staus for you. I just want to help other members to save money and offer my opinion. Doing whichever way is up to the owner, but don't go where you have to do this, do that because someone said they know so. Or don't do that because you own a MB, why cheap out.

For your information, Shell 134 (is 236.14) is only $5.** a quart at Rider - which is actually cheaper than other ATF. But where I stand, I will not recommend using it in a 722.6 tranny. Read the linked thread above.

JeffreyP

It's the bottom of the two: part number 001989210310, however both are proper fluid. They should ship to Canada.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...&cid=98@Fluids %26 Chemicals&gid=8591@ATF, Automatic Transmission Fluid

Glyn M Ruck

Sort the "wheat from the chaff". There is some good but a lot of crap spoken on that thread.

I'm only going to address one issue of misunderstanding regarding the new fluid being semi synthetic that I replied to on the w204 forum the other day.

Quote" It's a good question which I can answer very simply. Full synthetic or very high Group number base oils, GpIII & above have their downfalls. Additive miscibility steadily becomes more & more of an issue. i.e. the additive will not dissolve or disperse in the base oil.

So to achieve the desired performance we use the synthetic base fluid for the high VI, oxidation stability etc. properties it brings to the formulation while using a small proportion of petroleum base stock as a co-solvent to get the additives into the blend & stable.

100% synthetic is not always better - in fact far from it.

Don't worry. Benz & the oil industry have really done their homework on this product through it's many generations from 236.1 to 236.14." unquote

For the rest of this thread I'm getting tired of listening to rubbish.

Either listen to Benz & look after your car properly. Or do as you like at your own peril because some people that do not have your interests at heart wish to argue.

See post #51 on the Benzworld thread. A sensible & considerate man.

mis3

So, I called around and I got some part numbers.

My regular dealership: 001-989-68-03-13
Another dealership: 001-989-68-03-10 (for 5G and early 7G), 001-989-78-03-10 (for 2012 models)
Local Indie: 001-989-68-03-10

I tried to talked to them about ATF3403 and 4134 but they had no idea what I was talking about. Apparently, they work strictly with part number.

If I cannot get 001-989-21-03-10 locally, I will have to go with 001-989-68-03-10.

Another choice is to order from autohausaz.com. From their site, the original MB brand is backordered. They only have the equivalent Fuch fluid.

Glyn M Ruck

Fuchs 4134 is fine. Most of the W203 forum have used it until we found the Shell product cheaper.

JeffreyP

[QUOTE=Glyn M Ruck;5037390]According to this chart, it is. Clearly, 236.10 is thicker at 40 and 100 degree C.

Note other than Valvoline Maxlife, the rest of the AT fluid are MB approved 236.10 236.12 and 236.14 fluid respectively.

Glyn M Ruck

001-989-68-03-10 or 001-989-78-03-10 are just fine for your tranny.

Glyn M Ruck

[QUOTE=JeffreyP;5039830]The difference in viscosity is nothing even on your chart. You are comparing different brands typical values. The MB spec & genuine fluid are are identical in viscosity 236.1 to 236.14. The differences you are seeing are typical variation from one manufacturer to another & are only typical production. You will get minor variation from batch to batch.

BTW - Benz prefer you to blend at the light end of the spec for fuel saving but that is another issue.

JeffreyP

[QUOTE=Glyn M Ruck;5039853]Respectfully, that's why I beg the differ.

1. MB doesn't make ATF, they put their approval on the products they tested. You claim all of them are of same viscosity, I sent a chart showing all approved fluids are not the same viscosity. Now, you say the difference is viscosity are neglegible?

2. You said MBUSA is screwed up with recommending lifetime fluid, but you also stated that the European MB Taxi industry has all kind of ATF problem (I presume they follow the 39k mile recommendation and use the proper spec fluid?) - so WHY does the European MB Taxi's have problem?

3. You said 236.14 is the best for 722.6 tranny, I send a link where owners have problem doing so - I believe that's proof. You basically called them a mixbag - you disregard anyone's sucess using other fluids, and only one person who see it your way is sensible?

Most likely I'll try to stay away from possible confrontation as this ATF topic is torturous.

mis3

Yes, there are certainly different opinions on the ATF.

I called McNally (reputable local indie) and 2 other MB dealerships, their transmission services include partial flush only. When asked for the full flsuh, they all said they didn't do it because it's harmful to the transmisison.

Can someone, locally in Toronto, suggest a indie who has the equipment and capable for the complete flush?