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Hey all.
i looked all over the web for a guide or tutorial and i just couldn't find anything that's even close to it!
i need to remove the soft top, but not the whole thing, just the most exterior fabric layer.
is that even possible?
thanks
Yes, it's possible. I assume you want to replace the canvas? I did this earlier this year. I will say this is definitely a tough job. Here's the thread where I posted about it:
yeah you almost got it!
i want to remove it to repair it instead of installing a new one.
as you said, the seam failed, and i got the HH-66 cement that's suppose to work pretty well, but i still have no idea how to remove that first layer so i can actually fix it..
i saw you said something about WIS documentation? can you elaborate on that?
WIS is some German acronym, but it MB's computerized repair manual. Is is accompanied by the world's worst black and white photos. Rodney can tell you if it's even useful or if you are before off winging it. But why do you want to do all that just to apply glue? Most people glue in place. If I put in that much frustration I'd probably just buy new canvas. It is a seriously complex job. You could probably rebuild your transmission while wearing oven mitts in less time.
lol
not me tough, with my mechanical know how, me putting on the oven mitts will be the first and last step
and i just thought it will make the whole thing easier with the glue applying and maybe with like clamping it together while it drys.
and also im just not sure i can even pull the seam back to place in this position of the soft top, certainly will have no way to clamp it or something like that..
WIS is some German acronym, but it MB's computerized repair manual.
It's an acronym for "Workstation Information System", which is MBZ's shop manual for dealership service centers. You can get a "copy" on eBay for around $30, or, if you get the full-blown Chinese clone of SDS (Star Diagnosis, the dealer's diagnostic system), it comes with that (which is about $500).
Is is accompanied by the world's worst black and white photos.
Oh, no, you haven't seen my B&W photos from my 7th grade photography class. But yeah, they can be "challenging" to see.
Rodney can tell you if it's even useful or if you are before off winging it. But why do you want to do all that just to apply glue? Most people glue in place. If I put in that much frustration I'd probably just buy new canvas. It is a seriously complex job. You could probably rebuild your transmission while wearing oven mitts in less time.
WIS was definitely very useful in replacing the canvas, mostly because it gave me the proper order for doing everything. The photos were somewhat helpful. On a scale of 1-0, they were a 6.
Actually, folding the canvas back to the seam and then using stitching and glue would be a good idea. That's maybe 20%, maybe less, of the overall job of replacing the entire canvas. Seeing how the seam is doubled-over, there's really no way you can get it well glued from the outside.
I can tell you that a glue job from outside is not going to look good. I used Goop Boot & Glove waterproof contact adhesive and it sis hold strong, but it's messy to use. The main problem is that you can't get the seam back into it's proper position because of the way it's designed. Here's a drawing showing the seam:
Without removing the canvas, you won't be able to get adhesive into that inner fold (the upper "glue" block in my diagram). The only place you'll be able to glue is the lower strip. What will happen is, if it hasn't already, the adhesive inside the fold will let go and instead of having a double-glued folded seam facing rearward, you'll have a single-glued seam facing upward. The Goop adhesive that I used did a fine job of holding the canvas together and keeping water out, but it looked bad. Without that inner fold, the canvas stretched about half an inch and you could see the Goop in the seam. I also made a bit of a mess with mine, even though I used tape. That Goop is strong stuff and was very hard to remove once dried.
My advice is this. If you need to do a temporary fix that will hold the canvas together and keep you dry until you can get the canvas replaced, then try using an adhesive from the outside. Use tape to keep the job neat, but really, once the inner folded seam glue lets go and the canvas stretches, you'll see the outer glued seam.
To do this, start the top opening until the rear glass lifts. Then, place something (no-marring) on top of the soft top cover to hold the glass up so you'll have slack to work with. You will need to go ahead and separate the entire seam across the top, and a few inches down the sides toward the fenders so you can get a good, continuous glue line. I found that binder clips (those black spring clips for binding large stacks of paper) worked well to hold the seam. I bought enough to run the entire seam. Also, I'd do this on a nice warm day (or in a nice warm garage). If you go with the Goop adhesive, keep it very warm so it flows well. Try using a brush or wood stick to spread it on both sides of the seam to mate, then let it slightly dry before securing the seam (basically following the instructions on the container).
If the rest of the canvas is in good shape, I'd find an upholstery shop that can do the repair for you. I read another thread where a guy said he found a shop in his area that would do this for $400. They would detach the canvas from the front and fold it back to expose the seam from underneath, where they would then glue and stitch it. If you have the skills and tools, you could do this yourself. Folding the top back to the seam involves removing the header rail on front of the top (several bolts), detaching the spring cable on each side, detaching a riveted strap on each side, and separating three zippers. It would take less than an hour to do this. But, re-attaching the canvas is more difficult. Those zippers are a PITA to close - they have no "starter" tabs and you have to use crimp staples to keep them closed (you don't leave the slider in place, meaning you'll have to find a suitable slider to use to close them). Re-attaching the spring for the tension cable is not too hard, but you need to take a photo of exactly how it goes before removing it. And finally, the rivets are easy if you have a hand riveter.
ok so i got a little lost with your great (seriously, thanks) answer.
English is not my main language so i lost you when you explained about the whole inner fold and the double-glued folded seam facing rearward against the single-glued seam facing upward and that whole thing.
I attached a pic of the situation as it is right now, not sure which of your description it applies to, but i'm sure you will have a better idea..
and regarding the upholstery shop, as i said English is not my first language, and that is because i live in a country that the ONLY upholstery shop that has the know how about repairing soft tops, told me that the only way to fix it is by some sort of plastic rubbery welding or something like that which leaves a brutal mark throughout the length of the top. (see 2nd pic.)
And he's also not very good at it, as the picture shows. (from his own work album)
Oh, and ordering a new top + shipping & customs fees + labor for installation where i am - will be a stupid idea on my side cost wise..
In your first photo where you have the canvas between your finger and thumb, that is the part that is folded over. If you put your finger into the open seam, you should feel that the fabric is folded over underneath. The same glue is used inside that fold and will deteriorate and separate just like the glue in the open seam you can see. The diagram I posted shows a side cut-away view of the seam. The black lines are the canvas layer and the green is the adhesive. The top black line that makes "J" hook shape is the canvas on the front of the seam, i.e. the part between your thumb and finger. The bottom black line is the canvas behind the seam.
Got you.
And you say that if i just glue it like this it want stick? it will make the inner seam break as well? or is it a good temporary fix? because i want to fix it in order to sell the car basically.
Like I said above, I use Goop brand Boot & Glove adhesive on mine. It's what is called a "contact cement". Most adhesives like this work by bonding first to the material, then to themselves. You apply it to both surfaces to be bonded, let it just barely dry for a few minutes, then mate the surfaces. It then creates very strong bond. Mine held this way for a good 6 months with no leaks, but it looked like a "hack job".
so i should really try to make it as clean and tidy as possible. but either way, i think a hack job will still be better then leaving it all open like that..
thank you for your time rodeny, i appreciate your help.
Rundeny
Can't figure out how to pm you.
Replacing rear wheel liner. Removed old damaged line and found black plastic bag like lining under the felt liner held in place by a a flatland running around the wheel well. The plastic had formed a bag that was full of dirt and water. So you know what purpose this black plastic sheet does and also what the strap does.
05 CLK55 AMG (1 of 247) Cubanitsilber designo series
There is a plastic sheeting behind the carpeted wheel well liner that protects all the electronic components behind the rear wheel well. Not sure what he means by a "plastic bag." This is true on the passenger side at least. Considering the cost of the evaporative system in that area it needs moisture and dirt protection.
Rundeny
Can't figure out how to pm you.
Replacing rear wheel liner. Removed old damaged line and found black plastic bag like lining under the felt liner held in place by a a flatland running around the wheel well. The plastic had formed a bag that was full of dirt and water. So you know what purpose this black plastic sheet does and also what the strap does.
Not sure any of my follow up messages got posted.
I removed the felt wheel liner on the opposite wheel and sure enough there is a plastic sack with insulation inside. It is located to pad the fender side that faces the rear cabin so I assume it is soundproofing. One this sack was damaged due to rip in felt wheel liner water and dirt filled the insulation sack.
Have orders new insulation. It does not seem to waterproof any part of the wheel well so I am not sure what electronics this would protect. Thanks for any help.
Sid
03-03-2016, 09:51 PM
