daking1959

Yes , if you take care of your engine..No, if the thing is full of sludge..
I do put alittle Marvel Mystery oil in the crank and drive around for 15 20 minutes, the change the oil. (Mobile 1 ).
But Ive never done a engine done a flush.
How many of us consider a flush part of maintence..like plugs, tires?

Rudeney

Not me. I change the oil per FSS and that's it.

Audi Junkie

MMO is stoddard solvent, an effective engine cleaner. It works slowly though, so more like a month or 500 miles at the end of an oci is the effective method.

Most engine cleaners are stronger solvents like mineral spirits, which should not be used routinely, just in specific cases. A quart at idle for 10 minutes and drain. If you continue to run a volatile solvent, it thins the oil too far, then will evaporate, re-depositing the dissolved sludge. Seafoam would be particularly harsh on seals and quite volatile.

I would just use a q of kero, diesel or the best choice bio diesel, as it has the greatest solvency. Some bio based oils are on the market, Castrol just announced a line of bio oils, worth a shot if you are cleaning the engine.

HD diesel 15w-40 or 5w-40 tend to be the most detergent choices in oils. I'm using 15w-40 in my car for summer for a short cleaning interval.

I would advise against the FSS in anything except a leased car. Best interval is 6 months, reusing the filter. Find an oil that makes you happy at that interval with the miles that you anticipate driving. Personally, I'm not a fan of M1 0w-40 in some applications, I think a heavier 5w-40 or even 10w-40 like Mobil 1 High Miles is a better choice in demanding conditions. 6 month intervals allows for a change in visc for the change in seasons. This, plus an extractor tool is a great combo.....better than the FSS which is a "compromise" at best.


Don't forget to do a proper intake cleaning, Seafoam is good for that, but CRC GDI cleaner for DI engines is the best by far....200x the PEA that is in Techron. PEA...umm. Non DI and NON turbo engines are very easy on modern oils. If you are the orig owner, and did FSS or 13k services exclusively....I would step it up a notch. Short trip driving is a far different beast than highway miles....that's another good thing about timed intervals, they account for both types of driving.

Frankly, I'm using 10w-40 Pennzoil HiMiles once a year. I might drive 5000 miles if I'm lucky.

eteller

Here's a very interesting article on oil which in the comments does mention Rotella T having very good detergent properties: http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/why-ex...ney-1797241527

I do know that short term ( a day or two) a quart of transmission fluid will clean a engine. I'd just be careful of anything that thins the oil too much as it can't be good for the bearings. On a beater I'd experiment in a heartbeat but with my benz I agree with Rodney and MB engineers. As for the longevity of modern day synthetics I've seen the results of lab tests and am very happy with a 12k change interval.

0zranvest

[QUOTE=eteller;7221264]Here's a very interesting article on oil which in the comments does mention Rotella T having very good detergent properties: http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/why-ex...ney-1797241527

Be aware that using Rotella T (diesel version) can throw a CEL for oxygen sensor. I used Rotella 5-40 in my Infiniti for about 9 years without issue. About year ago I began using Rotella in my Toyo van w/ 125k miles. About 3 months later Toyo CEL was set off for oxygen sensor. I replaced sensor (Toyo has 4 O2 sensors), then a second O2 sensor threw CEL. About this same time I took Infiniti for oil change, supplying my own Rotella T 5w-40. The Nissan tech refused to use my Rotella T 5w-40. He claimed that Rotella T 5w-40 was recently reformulated & was setting CELs in some vehicles due to recent formulation change.

Anyhow, I no longer use Rotella in any vehicle.

Audi Junkie

FSI or extended oil changes should be considered a MINIMUM service method.

I'll be back to help out and to address the new Mobil 1 oil study. I looked for primary docs and could not find them. So, I watched a decent info presentation by Engineering Explained.


I noticed he only mentions engine wear in passing. I mention it all the time, pointing out that wear is either the same or higher with synth oil. Mobil knows this, that's why they avoid the issue. If you aren't reducing wear with synth oil, what are you doing?

He also never makes a comparison of whether more oil changes would be better, like a real world study demands.

I covered the piston deposit issue with Mobil 1 vs PZ Platinum. Unless something has changed, Mobil is not leading the industry.

I'm actually at a loss why someone would want to go the MAXIMUM distance on an oil change? Is it a repressed form of actually doing the MINIMUM service?

eteller

FSS is no where near the end life of modern synthetics. We had a shop truck that ran Amzoil and bypass filters. At 125,000 the oil finally got changed out of guilt even though the CAT analysis reports done every three months said it was doing fine.

Audi Junkie

CAT analysis isn't going to catch engine deposits. Remember all the sludged engines on the internet?

A "shop truck" is different, many times to oil capacity, with less start/stop cycles.

Fill your new Mercedes with Amsoil and go 125k, by ALL MEANS....

Audi Junkie

Maybe someone who hasn't drunk the Kool Aid can explain how "synthetic" oil (which is just slightly more refined crude) has such super-duper abilities, when it's the exact same base oil and additives in both products.

Is it going to cut wear in half, no

Is it going to handle twice the insolubles, no.

Is it going to neutralize twice the acids, no

Is it going to resist thinning from excess fuel, no

etc etc etc no no no

eteller

The shop truck was an Isuzu pickup used for deliveries, the definition of stop and go. It and it's six quart capacity made it to over 500k mi, engine fine but the interior was an embarrassment. Engine deposits are measured as solids which shown up in analysis. Pull the valve cover of any modern engine running synthetic and you will see no deposits the detergent pack takes care of that. Put synthetic in an older car running dyno oil and you might get leaks the detergent pack is that good. Suzuki recommends against synthetic during break in on their bikes as the rings may never seat, it's that good.

Audi Junkie

Start / stop isn't the metric used, it's cold-starts. Just like a taxi, if it's started up and driven all day, without cooling down between restarts, it counts as one cold start. Modern cars stop dead at ever stop sign and traffic light.


Dissolved solids are measured in oil analysis....the drained oil. How is that giving an indication of solids that are retained inside the engine and not drained out....the sludge?

Save your AMSoil pitch for people who might want to spend even more for an oil change and go farther for some unknown reason. Both represent the opposite of what it takes to get a clean engine.

The nonsense of "pulling valve covers" on old and new engines if failed on it's premise. Of course old engines with poor fuel controls and primitive emission controls get sludged on OLD oil formulas....duh. They don't burn cleanly like new engines using new oils.

You are hung up on the synthetic oil thing, without being able to explain or demonstrate what it is or what it does different. You are also hung up on extended drains....to prove what? Explain how Hondas go around on dino oil, 10k change intervals. Show me the examples of these type engines getting sludged on MODERN DINO OIL....where is your examples???

You are full of nothing but dumb shop talk.

sailorben

And what, may I ask are your credentials? I.e. The ones which distinguish your posts from a knowledge base of dumb, ALTERNATIVE shop talk?

eteller

As an engineer I will stick with the recommendation of MB's engineers who probably know a thing or two about automobiles rather than some Volkswagen fanboy on the internet.

daking1959

I was just curious about a "engine flush".
I have always used alittle bit of MMO before changing the oil.Car, truck motorcycle, mower. My Suzuki, and JDeere are 17 yrs old. And they both run as strong as the day I got them.
I change the oil in the car once a yr. And do use a little bit of MMO before I change it. And put a bottle of Techron in the fuel system at the same time. I cant imagine that would hurt or damage the engine.
This forum has been a blessing to a lot of us that need some guidance. Thanks to all..

ALFAitalia

Funny one of you should mention VW...because when I worked at a main dealer for them we used a factory supplied and approved engine flush in every engine at every service...old car or first service. It was a few years back but I'm pretty sure it was Techtron...or a very similar name. I'm sure VW would not have risked a load of legal trouble by damaging engines if they did not believe it was safe and beneficial. I use a flush in my 151,000 miler every service..as I have every other car I've owned. I notice how much faster and thinner it pours away when comparing it to an oil change on another car with no flush. I do my oil change properly...ie I remove the tray and sump plug. Don't think I would recommend it if you use a vacuum pump. You just can't be sure you have got all the muck you dislodged out of the motor if you suck it out.

daking1959

only is the gas, maybe 2x a year. Seafoam...only in the bike, it is carberated

Rudeney

I've always used the suction method on my MBZs. I dropped the oil pan on my CLK550 at about 85K miles to reseal it. There was ZERO sludge or buildup of any kind in there. I never flushed it and never used anything but Mobil 1 0w40.

daking1959

have only used Mobile1..and Mann filters..no problems at all.

Yidney

I asked him his credentials in the other thread where where he repeats everything he knows about oil and then insults everybody. But I've not been interested enough to see if he ever responded.

Yidney

Since I've owned my car the oil get's changed every year, which is about 3,400 miles on the low end and 7,000 on the high end. No more than 5,000 average. When I drain the oil after a year, it is still amber color, not the darkish brown of most used engine oil, so I'm pretty sure it's clean in there.

Yidney

I went back and looked. His response was to ask me if English is my first language. If a person has no better retort than that, that alone is sufficient reason to doubt everything he says about oil. His brain is 5W40 Rotella goo.

Audi Junkie

The "engineers" don't write the service manuals, marketing does. Accounting also wants the owner to stay away while under warranty.

If YOU knew anything about cars, you'd understand that.

Also, where do "engineers" address my specific issue, where I have a used car with 60k, unknown service history??? You are the expert...

The answer is, they don't. The manual give one simple instruction for simple minded owners that gets them through the warranty period with minimal claims.

Anyone with a brain should understand that more frequent changes can only improve the engine condition. Now, if you're a nutless moron, you probably can't figure that out, and follow a little sticker rather than have faith your own analysis of the situation.

All of these "manual/dealer/mechanic says so" posts lack any insight or understanding.....just repeating a story like a 5th grader. Not one poster suggests how to service this used engine....

What are the options? Regular oil that will dissolve some deposits and then drain out...? That makes sense if you drain it out early....huh right? Do the morons "get it"? No, they think the engine can ONLY run on Mobil 1....so what, run it out to 13k? Yeah, that's smart. Pay $50 for Mobil 1 and drain it at 3k or 5k? Sure, that'll work too....but my way works better.

A truck oil is much more detergent....only a handful of the morons know that, but they aren't sharing it because it conflicts with their "Mobil on the brain" condition. A lot of guys still not understanding that the 13k is the MAXIMUM change interval....with not a brain cell used for further analysis.

In all the brands of cars, Mercedes has the least informed owners, especially when it comes to oils service. Are you guy going to apply the same vigor when the sticker under the hood says "Use Mercedes oil"....because that's what they say now. Do you morons think Mobil has their own oil wells and refinery? Ha ha, wow.

Can some experts like the Yid explain the difference between the various spec oils, Mobil 1, Castrol, Aral etc etc??? Because if you don't know the differences, you don't know anything at all....may as well be a woman.

It looks like a few other mfgs are dropping Mobil 1 from their underhood marketing. I'll save the details for now.

Still, I'd love to see the oil condition in one of your engines after a year or two with an intake leak or coolant leak. That would be awesome.....compared to frequent changes.

Has anyone read all 300k results from searching Mercedes and sludge?
https://www.google.com/search?q=merc...+sludge+engine

Pretty hilarious that MB owners want to stick their head in the sand, and cite only the best case examples. Forget the engine leaks, how about the short trip driving....6500 two mile trips on one oil change....SMART!!! keep reading that manual dummies, check for the "severe service" recommendation, if you can get that far.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/deta...does-look.html




Would this happen with 2x a year changes of truck oil??? It would cost the same as spec oil....

Nobody wants to talk about the facts?

I plan on crapping all over this forum until someone speaks with more than stupid opinions and guesses.

Audi Junkie

At least I don't drive a lipstick colored girl's car.

Audi Junkie

MMO works slowly. Leave it in fro 500-1000 miles before the change.

A quart of kero, diesel or best Bio diesel added then idled for 10-15 minutes, then drain.....fill with cheap oil for 1000-3000 miles, and drain that....even repeating the process.

A year on good synth up to 10k miles is fine in most instances....

Did you buy the car new and overservice it from day 1, or was a used car with unknown history?

As much as I have no problem with 10k changes on good synth, I bought my car at 10 years old and 60k. Might I dare do an extra change of 15w-40 over the summer before I go with full year 5000-6000 changes?

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40 AND 5w-30 High Miles mixed even though I have 4 bricks of M1 sitting here, plus jugs and jugs of PZ Platinum....but my slow revving MB that is driven only occasionally doesn't need it. If it were my daily driver, I'd do Mobil 1 or Rotella 5w-40 out to 5000-6000 miles. If the engine was KNOWN to be clean....push to 10k, but imo 1 year max.

The synth oil is for my new car....



Turbo and Direct Injection, I can't use crappy oil like the Mercedes can.

tw2

I feel like we have been here before. I think everyone agrees with you that more frequent oil changes are generally better. I think everyone also agrees that any oil that meets the 229.5 spec changed more frequently is better than mobil 1 left way too long in between changes. Everyone also agrees that there are plenty of other oils perfectly fine to use over mobil 1, they just don't see any reason to change. I think everyone also agrees that your attitude is why no one will have a technical discussion with you.