gregc

With the larger injectors (more flow), the stock CLK55 PWM ECU signal flows a lot more fuel. Do you have a fuel pressure connected to the rail? It may be flow of the pump and not the tune. I do know for a fact that the E55 pump is much bigger than the clk.

I assume you are using the E55 MAF that came with the supercharger. If not, you are pegging the MAF for sure.

I would check the pressure first. I ended up using a larger pump AND and boost a pump.

It will be hard to hold off detonation at 12psi with our stock 11:1 compression. I will go to 10psi max.

It would be SO COOL if you find a tuner that can play with the tables. I have not found any place that can get into the ECU and edit anything other than the A/F tables.

I would think a smart person at Powerchips should know. They edit a lot of Mustang cars with Screw blowers. A lot of parameters need to be edited if you change injectors and not the ECU. The Load Value is off, which affects the Knock Sensor, among other things. I have found that the knock math in the mercedes ECU to be good. It really retarded my timing until I got the meth/water injection.






From a past post:

pumps flow different amounts under different conditions. Typically less voltage to the pump, higher pressure, and higher temperature means less flow out of the pump. The flow numbers and max HP approximations I am reporting are the numbers Bosch supplied for the various models and I do not have information for other pressures or voltages yet. The distributor did say that the flow and HP numbers are a little conservative.

Pump #1: Bosch 0 580 254 979

This is the pump I hear referred to as the 310 LPH pump frequently.

Bosch Rating: 165 LPH at 72.5 PSI and 13.5 V

Bosch Rating: 230 LPH at 43.5 PSI and 13.5 V

Bosch Approximate Crank HP rating at 72.5 PSI and 13.5 V: 600 HP

Best Price I Found: $219.00


Pump #2: Bosch 0 580 254 044

This is the pump I hear referred to as the 420 LPH pump frequently.

Bosch Rating: 200 LPH at 72.5 PSI and 13.5 V

Bosch Approximate Crank HP rating at 72.5 PSI and 13.5 V: 750 HP

Best Price I Found: $220.00


Pump #3: Bosch B 261 205 413

This pump is the same pump as pump #2, but this pump is flow tested and rated at 116 PSI instead of 72.5 PSI. What Bosch does is flow some of the pumps and sort them out. This pump they will guarantee to flow its rated capacity at 116 PSI instead of 72.5 PSI. Since lower peressure generally means more flow, all else equal, I think this pump will outflow pump #2 at typical working rail pressures (60 - 80 PSI) or at least maintain a high flow rate if rail pressures above 72.5 PSI are required in high boost / high HP applications.

Bosch Rating: 200 LPH at 116 PSI and 13.5 V

Bosch Approximate Crank HP rating at 116 PSI and 13.5 V: 750 HP

Best Price I Found: $382.78

A side note on pump #3 is that it is only available from a Bosch Motorsports dealer, which is different than a regular shop that sells Bosch products.

Obviously at lower pressures the pumps will flow more volume. Also, with the addition of a voltage booster, the pumps will flow more volume. Therefore, it is apparant that the pumps can support more power than the Bosch Motorsports representative indicated given more favorable conditions (less pressure and more voltage).

gregc

What does this mean: I would love to lose the maf like the kompressors.


Are you using the blower MAP sensor or the stock MAP sensor. My stock unit would peg 5V and cause an check light. I clapped to 4.3V max

I have not found a tuner that can get into the ECU. Superchip say they do mercedes? They do a lot of chips for blown mustangs and do know all the tables to edit.

NitrogenBalance

Any idea why your MAF pegged @ 4.3V was causing CEL lights and mine is @ 4.9V without any issues?? BTW greg, your posts have helped me a good deal.

To stay on topic I think a meth/H20 setup would be a very effective and easy option compared to the other options. Call me lazyI am looking at the coolingmist kit. Their top of the line trunk mount is pretty impressive with ss lines, high speed valves, and the safety control has about 5 inputs and outputs to have the system work using MAF signal, boost, MAP, IAT, and any other input. You can also use multiple inputs to create a truly custom setup from your laptop. For example you could program the IAT signal to spray a tiny amount if the IATs get hot during traffic to keep the blower cool, you could then program a completely different table to spray alot using boost as the trigger and MAF signal as the linear climb. You could also wire a bypass to bleed off boost should the system get clogged or run dry. I read the instal manual for their kit and its really cool! Your combustion chambers would stay a little cleaner also, knowing the oil dumpster that is our PCV system.

So very impressive rich!

gregc

If the EEC sees 4.9V for a while (under boost for a while), it will set an error light.

I clamped at a value just lower that 5V so it never sees it.

The truth is that in Texas the output is about 2.3V on a normal day. Goes up and down with barametric presssure.

I would assume on a blown E55, they use a different sensor.

mbenzman

The factory 55 Kompressor engines don't have a MAF. They rely on the map sensor as well as the other sensors.

There are people that can do this, Kleemann for one.

They use a A004 153 33 28, which is what I have installed and it never gets near 5v even with 20 psi applied to it.

You should try one of these map sensors, or maybe wait until I shake it out. .

I don't like to clamp the voltage as is has no reference to adjust to after the clamped voltage. But it would at least prevent shut down and the load limit code.
It reads around 1.3 vt. at idle but gives a nice linear curve for the ME ecu (not eec, that's a Ford system) to adjust itself to, and the transmission will compensate then too. With clamped voltage the transmission will shift erratically because the actual load can change without the ecu showing a load change so it can slip one time and bang the next. either way, not good for your tranny

gregc

That is good info on the MAP. NO MAF for WOT ecu adjustments?? WOW, so in your case you do have the stock MAF out front. It really would be cool if you could get the CLK ecu tuned with the E55 maps.


I would think that as long as my clamp is high enough, it would not affect everyday driving. I see what you are saying about the tranny. Mine is smooth as a can be.

I am thinking on history as I have not looked at the signal in a while: my MAP gives a voltage value while in vacume(everyday driving), then the V goes up in voltage as I go through vacume into boost. The MB ECU is not expecting to see boost on a CLK55, so at some point it thinks the sensor is bad. (you probably remember better as you have been looking)

I need to go look on my scope again this weekend and reply. In the end, I clamp just before the signal top, so the ecu does not think the sensor is dead or open circuit.

I tried to double bleed value to bleed boost away from the sensor while under boost, but that did not work.

One other thing. ASP in Houston makes a bigger pulley for the E55 guys. They can make a smaller one I would guess to detune your boost. 12psi on a 11:1 non-iron block scares me!


Another thought. I did have the MB dealer set my system to 93 octane a while back, and to set the fans 10 degrees down. I asked them to set tranny to shift firmer if they could. I can not tell much of a diff.

gregc

Who makes the tail fin I see on the clk55??

mbenzman

Getting rid of the maf would be part of the plan. Plan C would be the Neo. However, I'm close enough that the fmu would probably take care of things even a 1-1 fmu.
That said, long term issues light CEL's have yet to be determined, but if I could drop the 55K program on there, A lot of issues will definitely be avoided.

Better not to have a clamp at all if you can help it. There is nothing smooth about a clamp especially if the figur3e need to go way beyond the clamping figure. It's ok if you're barely touching or going slightly beyond, but I'm way past.
Your setup is way different as you know. The screw builds boost down low too! To give you an idea of the power, I don't get to boost before both the tires are breaking loose. But if I turn the esp off and let the tires spins, at very low rpm, less than 1500, the boost is already 6-9 psi. I may wind up with more than 12, I haven't gone there yet, as I have said due to the going lean part. But power, , or should I say the torque is incredible.
Several decent drives with the 55K map and I've never seen a map fault code. So cross your fingers. I have tried the original sensor and the driveability sucks, the trans shifts erratically, but you aren't pushing this kind of boost, large and immediate. We can compare notes, but I should be facing far more difficulties and probably am, just taking a different road and trying not to get frustrated.

I have a bypass already installed than I'm wanting to build a control box for. It's basically a M111 actuator complete with the feedback ability. I even could rig a mechanical regulator to it to open it at a present level. I would go this route rather than a smaller crank pulley first to keep my low end boost.
I may get more than 12 psi by the time I ever go full throttle , haven't been there yet, need more fuel and I haven't reinstalled the fuel pressure gauge yet. I wasn't planning on this high a boost, but it seems to be swallowing it.
The highest boost pressure I measured on my E55K is 8 psi and it just dynoed (see the dyno graph I had posted earlier in this thread) at 427.7 hp Sat afternoon after 5 failed attempts to get it into dyno mode!
The E55K's are alloy blocks and cylinders as well as the N/A engines.

You don't have the electric fan to adjust the temp. down on. Your engine has a mechanical/viscous fan clutch so that didn't happen. The suction fans can be adjusted, but not for engine temperature.
I would set the octane back to base or the 89 setting, I actually felt like my 55 had a power loss in this setting, I have set mine to 89 octane now, but you understand why.
The tranny self adapts based on slippage, there is no firmness adjustment I have ever found, and trust me, I would have liked to firm up a few problem cars.
I have no rear spoiler or lip on mine.

MBFORCE

Omg this is one of the fastest cars on the road hands down i went for a ride in this supercharged beast and im still trying to get my organs to come forward because they was pushed back against my spine from the take off!! THIS CAR IS SICK FAST!

hey rich, did we break the sound barrier?

blackbenzz

Any updates?

mbenzman

I've played around with different angles and ideas. I've had several issues, and problems, maybe a fluke, maybe some limits. One that may be of interest is that letting the stock map sensor see boost of this type may not be healthy for it. I stuck it at 4.87 volts, boost or vacuum. There is an updated part for these N/A 55's part # A 005 153 50 28 which I am testing, without being boost referenced, just vacuum.
I have installed a BEGI FMU set at about 1-4 ratio and a temporarily installed a/f gauge for quick reference while driving. I just did this one Friday so the ratio may get adjusted. I need more pulse width for the injectors but it's not available without altering the program ala kompressor map! So I have to add fuel and this is one adjustable way to do it.
I am still working on the ecu software angles but haven't had time to wait on the coding tool solutions to materialize.
I still haven't done a full throttle blast, but just part throttle is intoxicating and very quick. I've started driving the car in "W' transmission mode to keep the traction control and tires happy. I'm going to have to look at stuffing 275's in the rear wheel wells.
The transmission has settled down with this new N/A map sensor funtioning and I don't have it boost referenced this time, don't want to have to buy another just to find that 12 psi kills them, however the map going farther towards 5v. was helpful for stretching the injector pulsewidth. I still may have to clamp the maf signal yet, I'm trying not to, as it would stop any linearity to the ecu inputs. I need a larger maf to measure this kind of flow!

blackbenzz

Thanks for the update. You can fit 275's out back without rubbing... ask me how I know lol Both my 19s and 18s have 275 rubber in the rear.

mbenzman

I hope so, but this is a cab though. Seen a Cab with 275's? It needs them, the quaife aint enough.

gregc

Keep us in the loop. As you may be aware, I ended up with:

8;1 FMU
Boost a pump
Split second MAF and Timer adjuster - with 8:1 I get lots of head room to find tune the stock MAF. Fuel pressure ~75psi. If I go up in boost with smaller pulley, I will change to a 4:1

My FMU is next to the fuel pump, so I had to use a spring loaded lid from Vortech. This is the lonly way to get fuel in time. I bet you have a slow response issue from the FMU.

stock MAP sensor and MAF so ECU get nice everyday driving. I average 19.8MPG to and from work. stop and go traffic.

Ghostrider

How hard was it to tune your car with those Split Second products? Which ones did you use? Is this something that anyone can do??

Chappy

Is this monster going to be at the ATL meet?

mbenzman

I might be able to limp it across the street from my shop (dragging yours!)

NitrogenBalance

I've got the vortech non-adjustable unit a 4:1 if I recall. It too is installed out back next to the fuel pump. Is this unit better off mounted up front closer to the fuel rail? The vac line runs the entire distance of the car to reach the fuel pump. Last dyno I was on was with a rousch mustaing guy. He felt that it would be better if it were closer....any good to this info??

You guys are making my setup seem ghetto rigged from your comments....

PS: check out PTE's thread on stuffing 275 drag radials on his 208. If you don't use your trunk you can always tub the wheel wells LOL.....

mbenzman

You would have to run the fuel return line to the front of the car in order to mount your regulator in the front of these cars.


PTE has a 209 non-cabriolet. BB's cars are coupes, Gregg's and mine are 208 Cabriolet's. I haven't seen 275's on a 208 cabrio, but I will be trying soon.

Dan Wang

I can't believe I've been missing out on this thread.

I've been MIA from the CLK55 world for ages because I've been preoccupied in the Smart car world. But recently I've been driving my CLK55 alot.

My setup initially was running really really lean. Then Josh @ HOP helped out by intalling a Kenny Bell Boost-a-pump and BEGI FMU to maintain an adequate fuel pressure in the fuel rail. He also made a custom pulley by using a stock E55K pulley to retain the harmonic balancer. The boost was just too much at first, but now its at least managable. Lastly, he installed a voltage clamp on the HFM.

There are a few more items I want to install that have been collecting dust in my garage. Larger more free flowing bosch fuel pump, colder plugs, thicker wires, and a Split Second MAF/Timing adjustment.

NitrogenBalance

Very nice Dan!!! Beautiful setup! Any dyno #'s? Thats not the first car thats been fixed at HOP. He fixed my friends car pretty much the same way. Seems to be on the ball from what I've seen and heard there.

RICH!!! any udates??

Ghostrider

Can anyone help me with the min/max values for a wideband O2 sensor???

blackbenzz

What do you mean? Wideband tells you your AFR. You should be between 11 and 12. Higher number means more air than fuel = lean. Lower number = more fuel than air = rich

Ghostrider

I was trying to set the calibration with the software... I was actually needing the voltage readings that stock O2 sensor sees like .05V - 1.2V.

mbenzman

Dan,
Thanks for joining the party. Nice job on yours, how about some detail shots, like your intake tube, KB BAP and the front pulleys? Did you shave the "AMG" off the surge tanks or are they something custom, since they are also painted? How's the driving experience and do you have some performance numbers, or like mine it's still not ready for that?

Is the pulley actually cut down? How much less boost are you running? I know that would help my driveability and make things easier to tune, but I really don't want to reduce boost if I can help it as also owning a E55K makes me power greedy. I want the same performance out of my ML55 next!!

The CLK55 is sitting in the corner of the shop right now. It was time for a few repairs/mods on the ML55 before our turkey day road trip. And I'm still playing with it until I'm completely happy with what I started plus getting it ready for the next upcoming holiday duty. I miss driving it though and almost took it home tonight.

1 volt or less is what the stock o2 sensor puts out. 1 volt is rich, .1 or less is lean.