alex/b/

some help me find a good boost configuration

alex/b/

has it been done or is it better to buy the 5.5L

Havoc

I never thought of not using an intercooler. You can add boost intercooled or not to a high compression engine, my point was that it will be a smaller amount of boost compared to lower comperssion engines, that's all.

Wow, that's weird that your mustang 5.0L block split in half at just over 550 FHWHP. I've seen stock Ford 5.0 cast iron blocks handle over 700hp all day long at the drags.

betrezra

The common "5.0" production block as mass produced is known to split in half at that power level.... it's well known amoung mustang enthusiasts..... after that power level you are playing roulette

Most go to a dart block or something better for reliability. I'm guessing the AMG block does not suffer from that same limit. It sounds like there is not alot of experience with pushing the amg engine to these extremes...... stroker + boost.

I'd be interested in a long term plan of going stroked/blown w/my clk55..... just want to get some facts before going there.

It's somewhat easy with a sbf because just about every combo has been built/tested/destroyed/rebuilt/corrected.... so you just copy of good known combo. BUT we're in a diff world.... where its' big bucks, you can't self tune, and parts are really scarce,costly.

I'm not whining.... just an observation.

A few challenges with a stroked 6.1 L, Kleemanized CLK55 that I see:
1. fuel delivery -
larger fuel pump (mustang stock fuel pump 78lph good for 320fwhp)
larger fuel lines? (mustang stock fuel system good for 450 fwhp)
larger fuel inj?
boost controlled aux injectors required?
FMU - I hate fmu's... are we stuck with this band-aid..... or can we get fuel curves set with ecu (the best way).... FMU's do fail, then lean, then trouble

2. ignition -
stock mustang ignition good for 9psi, then issues with spark blowout.
Any limits with amg ignition?
timing control - I presume the tune handles this no problem.
timing control curves as function heat soak... I presume tune handles this.

3. engine cooling system -
any limitations with stock amg cooling system?
bigger rad required or beneficial?
can fan be reprogrammed to come on earlier like on c5's?
PTE has a 180 therm... which I"ll try.

4. intercooler mods -
what options do we have for a bigger intercooler
what options do we have for bigger intercooler pump (lightening pump ford?)
Any one run two intecoolers?
Any one run a larger reservoir in the trunk to stave off heat soak. (Old trick from the intercooled vortech racers)
Anyone use meth spray kits?

5. anyone have actual dyno data or 1/4 miles trap speeds with a 6.1 stroked clk55?

or better yet same data for 6.1 stroked clk55 with boost?

6. Will kleeman's little eaton blower provide enough volume to support a 6.1 stoked clk55 motor? we're moving more air now.... and you can over spin the blower, then efficiency is an issue.
Can kleeman upgrade the eaton blower for larger displacement?

7. trans
what trans mods will be required for 600-700 fwhp levels?

alot of questions, but alot to think about since we don't have 1000 iterations of a proven combo to work from

Havoc

Very few have taken on a stroked 6.1 L, Kleemannized CLK55. But it doesn't have to be a long term project, just bring it to Kleemann.

I would start off with the 55K heads since they flow better than the 55 N/A heads. Stock AMG pistons are cast and got to go anyway. If you're going to increase the stroke then it's best to change out the crank with a stroked crank than to go with longer rods.

The 55K AMG fuel system can support 700hp. You can always upgrade to SLR fuel items though they will be costly. As you know there are tons of aftermarket fuel parts out there to support a custom fuel system for the Kleemann S/C set-up if needed.

The AMG ignition systems are high performance and there's no need to upgrade.

The 55K intercooler mods include additional heat exchangers and upgraded pumps. Currently there are no options for a bigger intercooler. I had some custom top mounted SLR style coolers made for my build. The Kleemann S/C set-up for the 55 N/A comes with an intercooler so an upgraded HE and pump just might do the trick.

The tune shouldn’t be that difficult on a stroked and S/C 55 N/A since Kleemann has tunes for their S/C kits already.

David_AMG

All I can say to all your mods is

If you it isn't rude to ask, what has been the end results of all of them as far as durability, drivability, total cost and performance numbers?

Havoc

Thanks bro!
My mod list is pretty lengthy.
Not sure about the end result as of yet and durability would be very low since my motor is getting rebuilt for the 3rd time because of a valve spring issue. For total cost and performance numbers, I have $50K in it and should have around 700 RWHP when completed.

MarcusF

Ford (and other) blocks usually crack due to their open deck design. The block on the left is a BMW open deck block. The one on the right is a Mercedes-Benz M156, which like the M113, is a closed deck design.


You can see the closed deck design has a lot more space filled in between the cylinders – that’s why it’s called a closed deck. The block has just enough open space to keep it cool. Closed deck blocks are more expensive to manufacture and weigh more. The upside is increased rigidity. The stiffer block means it can withstand higher cylinder pressure and not crack, like this next photo.

bobbyjo9

Marcus... your gonna have to start putting together an "OOPS" gallery with those type of pics! LOL

Havoc

Both of my 5.0 Mustangs had big water passages, but were not open deck blocks. I never heard of Ford using open deck 5.0 blocks...

Stock Ford 5.0 Block


My 465hp 1992 5.0 LX The memories!!

betrezra

Havoc - thanks for sharing REAL data.

I bet your car surprises alot of people!!!!

MarcusF

Sorry. You're right. The Ford 5.0 blocks are closed deck. I've been staring at duratecs, ecoboosts, and dodge blocks for too long.

suicidal4life

Are you sure the M113 is a closed deck design? The pictures from Finny's awesome Project stock to Awe thread on the W211 page look like the M113 may be an open deck.

Havoc

Correct, both the M113 E55 (55 N/A) and the M113 ML55 (55K) are open deck design blocks.

This is my 55K bored to 5.7L with iron cylinder sleeves.






My custom oversized forged pistons compared to the stock 55K cast pistons.

FLYNAVY

You are going to be wasting a fortune on doing that when you can simply swap in a 5.4L N/A motor from the w210 E55.....nearly plug and play as I understand, and for a fraction of the cost. Then boost as you desire....HPS and Kleemann both offer kits on the market with numbers solidly in the 400-450 whp range depending on tune. I won't say the N/A 5.4 is a common swap for the '43, but it has certainly been done a few times (including members of this board)

MarcusF

Odd.

Havoc's photos clearly show open deck M113 blocks. Attached is a photo from an August 2003 Mercedes-Benz press kit. It's a closed deck block. I thought all 2003 MB passenger car V8's were M113's. That can't be true though because aside from this being a closed deck block, the valley of the V8 in Havoc's photos are clearly different than this V8's photo. What other V8 was Mercedes using in 2003?

ecampbell

this may sound overly simple but why not buy a 6.2 engine?

betrezra

Is the MB 6.2 plug and play into my 04 clk55?

_ trans mount?
_ ecu
_ harness?
_ exh?

THere should be a way to do it, since the last iteration of the clk has the 6.2 in it from merc.

ecampbell

betrezra.....phone calls and research.

betrezra

Has anyone done a 6.2liter swap into an early clk55?

StuttgartAMG

blackbenzz

You could get darton sleeves but they are not like these

Brad Cross

hey Havoc, I just failed a compression test after a Weistec kit and I need to rebuild the bottom end.

Some questions:

1. What bore diameter did you go to? I understand they’re 97mm stock, just wondering how much you machined out to get to 5.7l. Seems like you have a nice amount left.

2. What pistons did you go for? These look sturdy, and with much stronger design than the stock cast ones.

3. What rods did you go for - keep the stock ones? I’m going to push the engine to 40-45psi of boost once the sleeves are in, which will be big big power numbers, so I don’t want to do all this work and end up with a bent rod.

4. Did you need to do any head or cam work to feed the extra capacity you created?

Final question: how is it all holding up? Did the car drive well and stay in one piece post all of the mods?

Excited to hear your answers, this is a big project for me.

Ahmed

Yes sir, back in 2002, a friend of mine purchased an SL500 and immediately had his engine modified by brabus.