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I once promised an easy timing chain thread for the M113 but exceptional problems did occur.
The Double Row Roller timing chain is prone to stretch after much abuse and costs one several degrees of cam timing. Benz recommends replacement around 200,000 km. 125,000 Miles. I found over a half link of stretch when compared which equates to around 15^ lost cam timing. This is not noticed too much as the ECU makes radical decisions but it is much lost power.
I have serviced many Benz in the past but this M113 caught me by surprise. Once the procedure started I noticed some ugliness and decided to dig deeper. Found cracked Guides.
Brittle and grooved
The Proper service recommended by WIS is to feed into the engine method with proper tooling. This is what we want but cylinder head removal required.
New Guide
Now that I am this deep it is time for Engine preparation for some serious HP With a supercharger retrofit from E55k.
The E55k Rods are going in. If anyone has a source for M113 Glyco Bearings please chime in. The OEM are around 50.00 per cylinder.
So you saying I'm at risk of losing power at over 200k km? Hmmm I didn't see it mention anywhere when the chain should be replaced. What are best aftermarket options for this Gator or should one stick to OEM only?
Hey Mike, are you dropping the upper oil pan and just swapping the rods and bearings, with a re-ring, while leaving the block in the car? Or are you pulling the engine and doing a full rebuild?
So you saying I'm at risk of losing power at over 200k km? Hmmm I didn't see it mention anywhere when the chain should be replaced. What are best aftermarket options for this Gator or should one stick to OEM only?
Hi Kahn,
All Engines will loose power with lost cam timing. It Equates to static compression loss and retarded intake exhaust valve reaction, eventually degrading power.
When I was building twin carb 1200 CFM Ford Cleveland engines. A nylon cam gear was purposely utilized to retard cam timing on the cool down after the trap. There were no computers and detonation was not welcome after winning a race with a rare $8000.00 Cleveland. This technique will never be required with today's computers and tuning capabilities.
The bottom line consider getting it done if you want the best performance from the 5.5na or K.
I am not afraid to use aftermarket but on the engine German Mfg only they are likely OEM. Autohauseaz and others have the German replacement parts.
Cheers
Last edited by GatorMB; 09-25-2016 at 01:09 PM.
Reason: content
I wonder what my 200,000 mile motor looks like inside?
Hi Chadzu,
It is not pretty, These engines take a beating and age never helps.
I removed #8 and #4 today for Mic data, Crank is cherry so far but I had no issues.
Oil rings look rough Cylinders are coated nice with no damage. Crosshatch machining is mirror evident through the coating. Carbon ridge at the top cleans right off, no ridges.
I will post some pictures tomorrow Working nights rest is luxury.
Hey Mike, are you dropping the upper oil pan and just swapping the rods and bearings, with a re-ring, while leaving the block in the car? Or are you pulling the engine and doing a full rebuild?
Hi Marcus,
I removed the drivers motor mount (shot) to get the upper pan out of the car. The engine was sound and I had no intention of doing this but boyz will be boyz. Ha Ha
The block is still in the car. Just propped up under the passenger mount and the drivers mount bracket enough to remove the lower pan.
I will give more data on the bearings as I collect it. Heads are now in the machine shop.
The E55K and CLK55na use the same crank journal but the K rod bearing along with the piston pin carry more meat. Hence Pin OD same and Bearing OD made up in the K rods. Piston rings are the same between K and NA engines. Real data coming.
The Rod Bearings are custom compounded and sized for the AMG engine. It is expensive because it is a racing heritage bearing. You might be able to find a rod bearing for M112 that is similar $50.00 for a set of eight. but it will never be equivalent to the M113 AMG for $50.00 per cylinder.
These are stronger than Racing Clevite 77 and the main reason these engines outlive the car.
Cheers
What the heck? That sounds heavily expensive. Gator thanks for your information and feed back. Tell me though, lucky you in this scenario, if your cylinders on the block didn't show the cross hatch honing pattern then what were your next steps to revive this engine? I couldn't find anything on the net to repair them and I believe oversize pistons wouldn't be cheaper either as an alternative.
Kind regards
Indeed these engines were built to withstand everything, Besides the Rod and Main Bearings being special constructed and fitted. The piston rings were Steel Nitrided. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitriding
The Rod Bearings are $50.00 per Rod and currently on international back order.
The piston Rings are $75.00 per Piston. Hence the cylinders never wear but the rings will loose elasticity eventually.
I discovered most of my sludge was forming from completely plugged PCV orfices in the Rocker covers.
Had one destroyed bearing in the used set I purchaced, 7 in the forum and 1 on E-bay.
I contacted the E-bay person and he sent me a Cherry replacement free. (he is on my x-mas card list).
While the heads are in the shop the bottom end will be going back together. I started Measurements on the crank today. I will be getting some pictures together soon.
So far reconditioning this engine has been reasonable price-wise. Gaskets, Seals, Bolts, Valves, Guides etc.... The mouth dropper is in the bearings and rings.
Be patient as I have been waiting on parts. I actually considered working on a Retrofit thread but this one might be suitable.
I managed to collect new rod bearings and rings. The M113 NA and K connecting rods have the same dimensions after actually micing them. The K bearings are no longer available but the NA bearings are in limited quantity. I found the only difference was the oiling hole in the upper bearing shell.
I have a lot of useful photos and specs coming as I edit and collect notes.
Here is whats coming though. This was a trial fitting to determine required parts to complete the retrofit. I had to lighten the K rods a bit. Polishing the I beams makes them stronger as well.
The oil cooler will be removed and a custom plate made to cool down the oil with an aftermarket or OEM E55 cooler.
Waiting on parts and roasted turkey are about the same in my book. It smells good all day just getting excited about the payoff.
Interesting project, and a good heads up if I need to replace parts as my car progresses. Little daunting I must say, as I thought the AMG 5.4 V8 parts might be a little more common. Has anyone done a stroker motor? Gator, are you going to run a piggyback EMS or standalone like MOTEC?
The 55NA uses the MAF for fuel mapping and the 55K uses a MAP.
I am adding a PIC micro controller and programming to control the boost bypass valve. It will be stand alone with its own MAF and pressure transducer.
My Eurocharged tune is working well and I will consult with Jerry if needed when the time comes as Eurocharged has a retrofit ECU tune.
Many have just swapped out the E55k ECU and harness.
When I get it working good I will be happy to share the electronics and programming with others.
man reading all this makes me look stupid because I mostly know Japanese engines only. Sure all engines work on the same principles but to open up an AMG engine and measure things and mod here and there is on another level. Hats off to you Sir. Please keep us updated with photos and your measurements. I wonder in the endurance racing or the Le Mans how these engines performed (unsure which series they competed in) in terms of racing hours before they too were torn apart and refreshed with most of the same parts you replacing.
My notes on the connecting rod journals and rods are not close by but i can assure that the Sizing is the same between the K and NA M113.
The only difference is the oiling hole for the piston pin in the NA rods.
Both engines share oil nozzles that lube the cylinders and in the case of the K engine the wrist pins as well.
I did not learn how to prep an Alusil cylinder over night it took a lot of research and some bucks.
Much of the info was found here by member Sir Boost alot.
I followed through with much of his engine preparation.
Keep the silicone honing compound out of your engine. The masking tape takes 15 minutes and the compound is messy.
I did a bit more prep than Sir boost alot. Studied many of the posts in the P car forums. I used a scotch-bright green and a special honing oil to scuff the aluminum a bit. Remember the aluminum's job is to hold the silicon which is incredibly strong.
Worked well as it cleans and forces contaminants away from working surface of the cylinder. Available @ amazon as well.
Revmaster Machine Did the heads with a three angle valve refresh. Surprising all valves and guides were good to go. I was ready to spend. Whew, They also sourced the piston rings.
The K rods are heavier than the NA rods so I ground and polished I beams and lower cap counterweight a bit.
Lower bearing cap after removing some weight.
Matching K rods to NA pistons pin dimensions are same.
The K pistons are heavier which would throw the NA engine out of balance. The K crank has a large weighted rear section which makes up the mass of piston and rods balance.
Shop is a mess but the pistons are ready to go
Here is where I am at today.
I will have it running next weekend with the factory intake to start collecting data from the secondary MAF. I still have to round up an external oil cooler and a trans dip stick tube.
When I find my notes I can put together a required parts list for anyone interested in this swap. Maybe less waiting on parts.
Thanks Bro,
I am no Genius just happen to be an electronics guru in high school, When In College forced into the mechanical field to start raising a family.
It paid the bills and kept me in horsepower.
Gator. Do you have the part number for those rings you used? I see they from SM Motorenteile Germany.
My Machine Shop Guru Alberto @ Revmaster found them. They were sealed OEM AMG.
I will get an image in the morning. Fixing a minor oil cooler heat exchanger leak. Might nave to Heli Coil it.
Engine is strong stout and smooth. Very pleased to have a tight healthy 5.5. Cleaning all the PCV passages, Intake manifold soak vacuum lines and timing chain really made this engine new again.
It is best to work in an engine that is still functional and healthy than one that has failed.
Happy New Year Folks stay sideways but safe.
PS: Found engine measurement data in my STAR PC bag. Data coming
The oil leak turned out to be a crack in the housing.
Anyone have an extra one lying about please chime in. I may have it heli-ark welded until a replacement comes in the mail.
I used a 1 7/8" socket which removed the nut but damaged the casing. The proper socket is a 46 mm or 1 13/16". Hopes this helps a few.
There are some special sealers to use when working on critical parts. Especially on upper pan, Heads and timing cover.
Import grey should not be used on them at all.
More coming.
Thanks Gator appreciate your time and assistance. Any idea on what you paid for all 8 cylinders on those rings?
Is that your oil filter housing that's cracked? Sorry to hear bout that and thanks for the heads up on the correct size socket to use should any of us ever do the above.
I found an M156 last week at a salvage yard. Needs new coil or two and few odds and ends but yeah the owners said they want R85k which should be roughly $5700 US. Another place where I know the folks that work there sold one engine for roughly $4400 but from a CLK63. Thinking maybe in the future it could be an option for me but I like to restore things so this write up of yours will definitely be in my galleries on engine tuning and overhauling.
09-19-2016, 06:18 PM
