chiphomme

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...ck-series.html

Ted Baldwin

..........impressive. They did get 4.1 sec 0-60mph out of the cabrio that weighs 400lbs more. To me this is an argument for a regular CLK63 coupe. If the cabrio can do 0-60 in 4.1 secs and the black series 3.8 secs, the coupe will be somewhere in between (3-9 to 4.0 secs) at around $80K. It won't track as well at the black series but it will be an option for those that do not want to shell out $130. ink AMG finally has the AMG CLK done right, now get us the coupe here in the US.


.......on another note, does this mean that the SLR is overpriced?

Ted

Schiznick

Ted,

I think you are ticked at the wrong people. You need to direct your anger at the dealers. The CLK55 Coupe did not sell. Even my dealer had three of them sitting for a really long time. One of them for 14 months before they basically gave it away.

If the dealers are not willing to buy the cars then they will not come.

The addition of the 6.3 was not going to save that car in the US. Dealers have been burned on the CLK and will not order it.

My dealer won't even order a CLK63 Cab without a huge deposit.

The Black Series is far from a normal CLK or the C class platform. Everything about the suspension has been completely redesigned and uses the latest technology. You know as well as I do (Talking in Renntech or Kleemann $$) that if you went out and bought all of this stuff yourself it would cost you way more than 45K to build this car on top of the CLK63 Coupe.

Complete new suspension system
Brakes
Forged Wheels
Exhaust System
Limited Slip Differential
Additional coolers
Carbon fiber fenders ect.

Just my .02

Schiz

E55Freak

There is a vid from the front of the car while its going around the track. Sounds pretty good!!

Alan Smithee

Ted, 0-60 times are meaningless when discussing 500hp+ cars. More time is spent trying to get traction than accelerating. 0-100 and 1/4 mile times are more indicative of performance.

And straight-line acceleration is only one measure of the car's overall capabilities. The Black Series is an entire package, including appearance, handling, braking, and exclusivity that is well beyond a standard CLK63.

Ted Baldwin

........thanks for the lecture, albeit uneccessary. The thread title specifically discusses 0-60 time. The title of the thread is 3.8 sec 0-60. If this is completely meaningless, you wish to tell the thread starter to change that.

I guess this is where I say that I understand that that the black series is different and is a track car, etc etc. But you and I know that already. My point is that we don't know the performance specs of the CLK63 coupe in order to compare and see how much better the black series really is compared to the CLK63 coupe. Since the thread was touting 0-60 figures, it needed to be pointed out that even the the cabriolet version has a very impressive 0-60 time of 4.1 secs as tested by the same magazine. Essentially the CLK63 black series needs to be compared to the coupe version from where it oriinated. Not sure why this is controversial. There tests of the M3CSL against the M3 all over the place. Why is this not okay for the CLK63 black series. My point is not that the CLK63 black series is not a great car, rather my huntch is that we will discover that the regular CLk63 coupe is a formidable car itself. I think they should introduce the CLK63 coupe to the US. Those that want the black series can pay $130K and race it against the regular coupe version.

Ted

Ted

allenjdmb

it's the DEALERS fault that customers have no interest in a CLK 63 coupe? or in any CLK? Perhaps you haven't noticed that every piece of the CLK line is an absolute loser for dealers in terms of sales. The 209 has been a loser from the start, and though the freshening is better, still not the kind of bold coupe (or cab) that customers desire (obviously). It's entirely too feminine, with no real identity, and absolutely no street cred. The 208 was a far more succesful car in terms of sales, even up to the end, but the 209 team won't gather any kudos from customers, dealers, or the factory. Hey, it s a really nice dirve. Just no personality-- not to mention numb steering, a lazy tranny (OK, the 7 g is better), and the incredibly cheap wheels, even on the sport package. Sorry, rant over. Bring on the real CLK, the 63BE. BTW, anyone have confirmation on thier order yet?

MACHC5

Just gave my deposit today... Now what color...?

Schiznick

In the end it is customers that buy the cars BUT the dealers that I know were burned so bad by the 209 Coupe that they refused to order them. Hense my comment about the dealers......

The decisions that the dealer network makes influences what you are able to buy far more than we know I would bet.

Germancar1

Which is why I don't understand why Ted thinks the CLK63 Coupe would do any better than previous CLK55. This CLK has never looked as good as the previous model and I'm not just saying that because I have a W208. Hell convertibles look good with the top down almost always so a W209 CLK Cabrio is still a popular car, but the coupe particularly the early W209 CLK320 models were awful looking.

Of course the dealers have a huge say in what gets imported here. That is why the C-Class hatchback got dropped along with the C-Class wagon. Not enough interest in either. Ditto for the CLK55 Coupe.

I'm sure the changes to the R-Class were made in part by dealer requests that they got from customers who looked at it and didn't buy because of x,y,z reasons.

M

Ted Baldwin

............this partly explains why I think people don't understand the US AMG market. Of course no body in their right mind would have purchased the W209 CLK55. It was a joke.

.........Lets try again.

The reason the previous CLK55 did very poorly is because it was relatively underpowered and cost the same as a W211 E55. The CLK55 was 150HP less than the E55 and lacked a quad exhaust

The reason the previous CLK55 did very poorly is because it was relatively underpowered and cost the same as a W211 E55. The CLK55 was 150HP less than the E55 and lacked a quad exhaust.


The reason the previous CLK55 did very poorly is because it was relatively underpowered and cost the same as a W211 E55. The CLK55 was 150HP less than the E55 and lacked a quad exhaust.

..........MB/AMG fixed the HP deficit and then withheld the car from the US market because they did not really understand why it didn't sell. Perhaps they just wanted to first unload the CLK63 black series on those willing to spend $130K and then introduce the CLK63 coupe afterwards. The AMG CLK has always been an unrealized potential for AMG in the US market. They just don't understand the market well enough to cash in on it. The improvements in the CLK63 black series shows that they know wht to do with the car, they just don't know how to sell it in North America. It appears to weigh no more than the black series. Tweak the car a bit, add a quad exhaust and stop advertising it as 478HP. Remove it from playing second fiddle. It will become the new W211 E55.

............Why did the W211 E55 do so well in the US market?

Ted

norb

It would also help if MB gave the CLK a bit more aggressive look.

Jim Brady

Like the F1 pace car.

Germancar1

Sorry Ted, but I don't really buy any of this. The CLK Coupe, the W209 has never, ever looked the part to begin with, AMG or not. Secondly people just have never bought the coupe when the Cabriolet is so much more appealing. Saying people didn't buy the CLK55 because it didn't have a "quad exhaust" is ridiculous. Buyers don't usually care about such things and those who do, i.e. those here that like to tinker endlessly with their Benzes would have gotten it changed anyway, so that reason doesn't fly at all. People didn't buy the CLK55 Coupe for the same reasons they don't buy many CLK550 Coupes, the Cabriolet is just more appealing. This is the case for cars like that Jaguar XK and others, cabrios are just more popular. I will agree that for the money it was relatively underpowered though, but it really isn't supposed to have the same hp as an E-Class AMG either and it didn't cost the same when they both debuted in 2003. The CLK55 was like 69K and the E55 was 76K, a slight difference.

M

Whoopsy

Germancar1, from reading your last 2 post here, I feel like you are one W208 owner who is stuck with his car and trying to find a reason to justify that.

W209 are night and day better looking that the brick-up suitcase that's named W208. That's just the outside, inside it's lightsyear ahead than the grandma car.

Granted, the W209 only looks good with the AMG kit one, the el cheapo ones are just kinda plain looking but they still look way better than any W208s.

Ted is so right one this topic. 3 years ago I had a look at the CLK55, what Ted stated was exactly how I feel about that car, and if MB had given it 4 tips like the SLK55, I will probably forgive the hp part. I don't tinker with my cars much so whatever the factory offers plays quite a big part on how the car looks to me, and to most of the customers of MB. I had a chat with the store manager and he told me most of his customers are put off by the lack of 4 tips more than the hp deficit, so I am definitely not alone thining like that.

I ended up buying a CLK500 convertible, just because I didn't think the 50 or so extra HP that the AMG offers is worth the extra money, I'd rather spend that money on a convertible top istead. Plus the AMG version don't have the cool AMG signature quad tips, why should I buy the neutered version?

Germancar1

Not, I could have bought a same year (2003) CLK500 for the same or just a little bit more money so you couldn't be any more wrong on that count. Be clear I didn't want the W209, it didn't look the part to me. Plus I've WANTED A W208 CLK430 Cabrio for years.

Really, funny how most people I know seem to like the older style better. Grandma car? Funny how I'm always hearing how femmie the W209 is, especially the coupe. Of course the inside of the W209 is better, uh...shouldn't it be..its a newer design. I would be shocked if it weren't.


Only to the blind. The W209 CLK320s are the blandest looking Mercedes in recent memory. No way in hell they look better than the W208 CLK430/55s. I bet if you set up a poll on this board sheerly about looks the W208 would win.


Sorry guy but that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've read here yet. You're going to pass on a car because how many exhaust tips it has? My god that is precious. Forget hp concerns, those are valid, forget how it looked, but break the deal because of some exhaust tips?

You only prove my point about why the CLK55 didn't and why the CLK63 Coupe wouldn't sell, the convertibles are more desireable. No disrepect but to not buy a car because it didn't have the "AMG signature quad tips" is just absurd. You didn't want the 55 in the first place if that stopped you from buying it. HP I could see and this exhaust tip stuff is just nonsense IMO.

M

JLee81

Germancar1, it is purely your opinion, my car get so many praises all the time.
W209 is just a new version of your W208, just think of it that way and leave the judgement to whomever needs to decided what to buy between the two.

Ted Baldwin

.......I am glad you are hearing from other AMG customers. I am also glad that you are not in a leadership position at MBUSA. If you were, you'll run the company to the ground by arguing with customers about what they like. Again, to do well company needs to fundamentally understand its custmers. If they want quad tips, give them quad tips. The fact that you think it is ridiculous is your own problem. I am one of such AMG customers. I don't own the most number of AMG's but I own three of them. I am around enough other owners to understand the beat on the street. I don't expect this to end the argument. Infact below is another thread where most responders do not like the CLk63 black series. I am sure you'll have a few choice words for them.
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl55-amg-sl63-amg-sl65-amg-r230/194331-clk63-black-series-sl55.html

Ted

Germancar1

True, but most of what he gave about the W209 just isn't what I've experienced in real life scenarios. BTW, any and all Mercedes get praises, the name tends to do that, well except for maybe the R-Class, but that is another story. Though I think if you ask other Mercedes owners (that don't own either a W208 or W209) you'll find that they think the W208 was a better looking car. True the W209 is a vastly better car in nearly every area, that wasn't a point of debate from me.

M

Germancar1

Likewise I'm glad you aren't running it either because we'd have no choices like the S63 and we'd have a bunch of models that only a few choice people want like a CLK63 Coupe. I'm not going to sit here and say that MBUSA is perfect and understand the market completely, but likewise you don't seem to realize that they can't please each and every single person that wants to buy a Mercedes. No company can. Your beat on the street is fine for the people you know, but you really need to quit acting like your beat on the street and this board speaks for the whole of MB owners in the entire US of A.

Wow you've found a few people that don't like the CLK63 Black Series, yikes...call Jersey and have them cancel it right away. Forget the other people in some of the same threads that say they have deposits down on the car already. The fact that someone would pass on a car because it didn't have a certain type of exhausts tip is the most plum ridiculously silly thing I've ever heard. That is something that can be easily changed no? Since you say you know the "beat on the street" so well and you think you know what most MB customers want why don't you at least write MBUSA and tell them all this great stuff. Seriously, why not apply for a job with them.

Lastly, I don't have any choice words for people who don't like AMG cars, that is their choice, it is just the nonsense that I object too. Passing on a car because of exhaust tips....I can't tell you how ridiculous that sounds. I could see if the CLK55 was underpowered (it was) overpriced (it and the CLK63 Cabrio are), but exhaust tips, that is just plain nuts.

You act like Mercedes is going to be able to please everyone all the time, when you start running a company that way you get satisfaction like Lexus gets on its surveys, but you also get design by committe and sheer bordem like Lexus also. Everyone can't be pleased all the time and someone is always going to object or not like something all of the time.

M

Germancar1

Seriously Ted, I'm curious what changes would have MBUSA make to their current lineup, either AMG or non AMG models?

M

Whoopsy

Such anger from you, chill out buddy.

Something to make you feel better, I am in fact in your camp concerning convertibles, I kinda like them and that's why I bought the CLK500 convertible, not a CLK55 back then. But, a coupe was my first choice, they don't have a couple with the exact options I wanted but they had a convertible with everything I want and that's the reason I bought that car.

Since the CLK500 convertible and the CLK55 was costing around the same money, I just don't think the 'extras' from AMG is worth the premium over a regular CLK500 coupe, I'd rather spent that extra money on a convertible top.

Why not break the deal on the quad exhaust? It's suppose to be a AMG signature and it's not there, while the SLK55 has the same motor, but it has quad tips, in fact the CLK55s were the one AMG without quad tips, as Ted had said before, it was the neglected child in the AMG lineup until this year. Why did you think MB finally offer them? Because they actually listen to customers. We want quad tips on AMG cars period.

Yes, after market can change the tips arguement, but compared with the whole market, the modding crowd is still a minority, so the factory look of the car plays a major role in deciding if a car is successful or not.

chiphomme

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=120754

Ted Baldwin

..........I people are already voting with their pocket books. I know these things do change, but below is a link to the April 2007 sales figures for the USA. You'll get an idea. Of course you can call them all stupid and clueless and simpletons...........or, you can listen to them and offer them what they want. Just an idea.

http://emercedesbenz.com/May07/02_Me...New_Units.html

Ted

Germancar1

Guy, you really need to get over whatever is thats bothering you, seriously. What is a link to their sales figures supposed to show or prove. The market is bad and no amount of exhaust tips is going to change that. AMGs aren't even 15 percent of what Mercedes sells in this country so I have no idea what you're getting at here. AMG is tiny fraction of what Mercedes sells here in the U.S. I asked you before what do you think they need to change, and you give me a link to sales figures???

M