LZH

The "bench racing" I'm referring to is you comparing your cars to something you haven't even driven. That clear enough for ya ?
So becasue I use terms like "and guess what" and "my friend and I both agree" puts me in the same catagory as your son ?? I fell sorry for your kid...
I use those terms to describe my FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE of both cars on the track. Clearly, you cannot do the same. I simply write what I know. You write what you THINK you know and have proved you don't know much.

TheCreditMan

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus: Untrue in one thing, untrue in everything. This applies to you and "Fickleone". You've already proved you're willing to fabricate facts so why should anyone believe you about anything? Explain.

Second, there are lot's of things I don't have to have "FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE" of but I can still form an opinion. Hey, I'm of the opinion that I should not touch a hot stove but I've never actually done it myself! So too I don't have to drive certain cars in order to reach the conclusion that one may not be similar to the other in a meaningul way.

The 599 has a 6.0-liter 65-degree V12 Enzo derived 612HP engine, it shifts in 100 milliseconds, has CCB, its undercarriage produces more than 400 pounds of downforce at 186 mph, and it has the most advance semiactive suspension in the world. I've actually tracked the car and driven it, hard. So without driving the B.S. I have my doubts that the MB and the F car are similar. That's not "bench racing", that's common sense.

But I still can't wait to drive the B.S. And when I do, unlike you, I'll be honest about my observations and secure in my purchase without finding the need to make up wild stories.

Oh, one more thing, don't feel sorry for my 4 year old, I'm sure, unlike you, she'll grow out of using childish, inane language in a few years and her parents have taught her always to tell the truth.

LZH

You seem reasonable well read, which is why I'm having such a hard time understanding why you keep making the same dumbass comment...What has been proven ???? How have I (or betteryet, YOU for that matter) proven that I've fabricated facts ???? Becasue YOU doubt them ??? All that proves is that your logic is just as skewed as you ability to know how a car drives without ever driving it. Again, amature bench racing at it finest.

LOL - more quotes from magazines, and speculative bench racing...I compared the BS to the 430, not the 599. The 599 is astonishing, and it sure as hell better be for DOUBLE the price of a BS. Give me another $150k to mod the BS and I guarantee I'll make a car that destroys the 599. But, unlike you, I know for a fact (think lap times) that the BS is more car than the 430 - on and off the track.
I have been nothing but honest. If you had bothered to read my posts, you'd have seen that I already said (after my track day in the BS) that it is for sure, not a track car. As far as my other comments that you DOUBT, well, too bad. I'm done with you.

TheCreditMan

I'm crushed!

Seriously, in the spirit of two people who can at least agree that we both love cars, if you are ever in the Chicago/Milwaukee area, email me first and we'll go driving my cars. Typically, these internet heated exchanges fizzle out when two people meet face to face.

magwheel

Damn LZH and CreditMan..... will you stop this BS and I don't mean the Black Series! You sound like me tearing MW a new azzhole

You both sound knowledgeable about cars and you're arguing over each other's personal choices. There's nothing wrong with that until..... you start throwing darts at each other!

Let me tell you both... I love my BS so much that I sold me 997 GT3RS because the BS was so much more enjoyable to be in (comfort, torque, sound and 'off the cuff' compliments! It sounds absolutely unreal (all the time) and has the torque of a Monster Truck!!! It reminds me of the 'Days of Old' when I owned several muscle cars back in the 60s.

LZH..... That's an unfair statement about the F430. The BS may be a hell of a car, but the F430 isn't a bridesmaid by any means! You can both see and hear a F430 coming long before you see and hear a BS on its way. I can't believe I'm saying this but the F430 is 'almost' too loud... I love it though! IMO, you're comparing 'Apples and Oranges'! You have a front engine car and a rear engine car. You know damn well there's going to be handling differences and driving idiosyncrasies. The F430 is a true exotic while the BS is a 'Hot Rodder's' dream come true.

I didn't buy my F430s because they were just so... so. They are so easy to drive and so enjoyable that it's a real pleasure to own them. I don't and never will track any of my cars because I respect their value and quality of them so much. I do 'Hot Rod' them around town and the local freeways and they each present their own individual characteristics.

Both of you.... don't lower yourselves to the level MW and I just recently achieved. That jerk just gets me so POd' every time I see him post saying "I'm gonna get this and I"m gonna get that", that I can't stop firing my 'hell-fire' verbal missiles at him!

Just respect each other's opinion about your favorite car and try and discuss your likes and dislikes in a gentlemanly manner! Damn.... I sound like 'Sigmund Freud'! Da Mags here!

fickleone

CreditMan,

It would appear that your problem is that you let your Internet mouth get ahead of your brain. Let me throw a little more Latin at you (my favorite expression)

FESTINA LENTE!

It means "Hasten Slowly"

Now, you have all sorts of accusations out there, that you can't back up. I was deliberately slow to respond, so you would sink yourself further and you did. LZH did a great jog of exposing you, and I wonder why you have to disclose your Ferrari ownership on a MB website. Again, since I am not all knowing like you, I can only wonder if it is an ego problem.

I am sure in real life you are a nice person, but you really have to manage your Internet mouth, it undermines your credibility; as does opining about a car you haven't driven.

When I stated the BS was like a mini 599, it was becasue it was similar in pushing the handling envelope and was a 2 seater with an automatic. Heavy like the 599 so not an all out track car, but enjoyable nevertheless.

I never stated I tracked the BS because I hadn't, not enough miles on it yet, and I have an RS for that duty (I am aware of magwheels posting too).

To get back to your Latin (translated) Truth in one truth in all. If you believe that (and you wrote it) then you have dug a hole for yourself.

You called me out to "duel" over the truth, so in Gentlemanly terms (and according to precedent) I get to pick the weapons.

My weapon is as follows, since I don't believe in public disclosures of certain things, and they can come across as childish.

We pick a mutually accepted number (manageable of course) of trusted forum members. We each agree to give the group a $ amount (any amount, I suggest $5K, not much for a 599 and 430 owner, but a lot for someone who makes things up).

Then if I can't back up that I have tracked both a 599 and F430, I forfeit my money and it goes to your favorite IRS recognized charity. Vice Versa, if I back up my claim, to the independant group, you forfeit your $5K, and it goes to my favorite IRS recognized charity.

Remember, truth in one, truth in all, and since the above it is the easiest to prove that should end the matter.

Of course, you have another way out of this. Stop digging and you can admit your were precipitous, accusatory and dumb to let your internet mouth get ahead of your brain.

Either way is fine by me.

Festina Lente!

LZH

LOL - look out !!!

Mags - Yes, the 430 and the BS are different cars....but the BS is by far not at all a hot rod. Its a factory built car that performs very well on the track, and even better on the street. That cannot be said for the 430. Until you have taken both cars to their limits (and I'm not talking about freeway entrances/exits and burnouts) you wont understand how good the BS series really is. Not ALOT faster on the track than the 430, but faster nonetheless and much more pleasurable to drive around town.

Most-Wanted

Hey magwheel, How's it feel to be so, so wrong You can drop my name as much as you want, it makes me feel good that I got to you. You are a classless internet warrior Not even man enough to apologize and admit you were wrong.

Grussell- good luck on the sale. It will make someone very happy.

TheCreditMan

There is no "!" attached to this phrase as it also means to "make haste slowly" or "hurry slowly" according to what the Jesuits taught me a long time ago. And it's not upper case either.

Then why do you have to help out your friend? I mean, LZH was formidable enough, and now I have you "exposing" me! You two are quite a team!

I wonder why you have to wonder? Go back and re-read your post where you invoked the 599 name. After all, you claim that credibility comes only with driving the car, correct?

As far as my ego, wonder no more Fickle One: yeah it's a problem....it's too big for even me sometimes!

Undermines my credibility? If it is according to you I can live with it. By the way, since we're talking about "Internet mouth", please state what I "opined" about the B.S. other than to write that I don't think there are meaningful similarites between the cars you invoked?

And did I not write that I would correct my opinion once I drove the car if I found otherwise?

Question: Are you so insecure, so delicate in your sensibilities, that you can't handle even that?

I am looking forward to driving the B.S. and, who knows, I may agree with you my fickled friend!

Now, why would you have to bring up the fact that you have an R.S. on a Mercedes Forum? According to you that means you, like me, may have an "ego problem"!

You speak of "weapons" and "duels"... you need get a grip here.

While I appreciate the drama you're trying to create here, it seems as if you're stalling. The solution is clearly simple in this instance. Give the phone number and the person who offered you $20,000 over list. If you do: (1) I'll apologize to you for questioning your veracity and (2) I will call this person immediately and sell him/her a car I can buy right now at list; and (3) I'll even donate the $20K profit from the sale to your favorite charity.

Then, while you're at it, provide some rudimentary evidence you tracked a 599 and a 430. For example, give us the the track and lap times. Photos would be nice too.

And LZH, if you could do the same that would be appreciated, along with a copy of the check from the guy who tried to buy your car outside of the restaurant for $20,000 over list.

You can disclose all of this right now. No need to festina lente with the disclosure of information as you can disclose it right now; and, in turn, my humble apology will immediately follow.

EDIT: And regardless, my invitation stands for you (and LZH) to visit and drive -- and maybe even track -- some cars because all of this talk about a "duel", "internet mouth", etc. is quite silly when you meet people face to face and all the hot air disipates.

moldowan

magwheel

Uhhhhh..... did I mention your name azzhole? No I didn't! I said some jerk with the letters MW..... right? I was referring to someone called Most-Wasted! Ohhhh... wait a minute... that is you... isn't it 'sh_t for brains'!

Apology? For what? You've been asked and still haven't posted pics of your(?) Yellow Gallardo with you standing next to it maybe even with the keys and owner's manual. You post pics of some guy (maybe you... maybe not) standing near the Gallardo with his back to the car like he didn't even know the picture was being taken.

Then you submit pics of some girl next to the Gallardo and say she's your wife (maybe she is... and maybe she isn't)! What I will grant you though, whoever she is, she is very pretty and definitely sexy!!! Sorry that a couple of guys cracked on her in your post... (yes I do check your post out to see what kind of BS you're spreading now). That was pretty low of them. Even I will admit that!

MW, my biggest problem with you is that you say "I'm gonna get this and I'm gonna get that. I have this car and I have that car." Believe me, I'm not jealous of what you have..... except possibly for your GF or Wifey or whoever she is! There are a lot of guys in the U.S. that make my car line-up look like I'm a pauper! They just don't come on to 'Internet Forums' for whatever reason.

If you have a Gallardo... fine. It's a fantastic car and you're very lucky to own one! All I (and a few other members here) ask is that you show us a pic of you in or out of the car to somehow verify you really do own it.

You have a tendency to post comments that make you look like 'pompous azz'! Like... "I'm only going to have the Gallardo for 4 months or so and then get something else!" And then you 'brag' about your $500K house to someone else who you're dueling with. You obviously like to agitate people and then wonder why guys come back cracking your head!

Listen 'immigrant'.... I could say I own all the cars in the pic below..... BUT I don't. I DID own them... BUT I have since sold ALL those cars and replaced them with some other rides I enjoy driving a little more. Not that my new ones are faster or crazier looking but I just like them more for everyday driving, comfort and ease of use. SEE, it isn't too hard to post a pic of car(s) you own!!!

Go back and get that pic of you and the Gallardo and then I'll be more than happy to 'apologize' to you. Regretfully... but I will!

One thing does bother me though. How does a sexy, cute and seemingly nice girl, wanna be with your azz??? And please, do yourself a favor. Don't post pics of her rear end with her legs spread! Oh sure, WE all love it... but it does cheapen her image in some of our eyes. BUT then again, that's something a 'complete jerk' like you wouldn't care about.... now would you? Magwheel

fickleone

[QUOTE While I appreciate the drama you're trying to create here, it seems as if you're stalling. The solution is clearly simple in this instance. Give the phone number and the person who offered you $20,000 over list. If you do: (1) I'll apologize to you for questioning your veracity and (2) I will call this person immediately and sell him/her a car I can buy right now at list; and (3) I'll even donate the $20K profit from the sale to your favorite charity. [/QUOTE]

Thanks but no thanks!

Cute, that you are trying to change the terms, my offer to you was not negotiable. The original offer was reasonable and provided a private way to settle the issue with independant verification. You want to complicate it by doing a car transaction in the middle of it. You my friend are the one stalling! With all your car buying you know how deals go down, and they are never as simple as you propose.

Further, why would I give away/publish my sources, to create competition for myself, if I get fickle and want to sell my car? Right!! In car business everyone has to work their own deal and develop their own sources.

As a Creditman, you may be used to creaming off the spread on deals; but I want you to put your money in the game, not money from some other Dealer transaction that I would arrange for you. Where is the fun in that?


I can see that this thread is going nowhere. I have sent you a PM with my phone # (so I am not hiding) and we can continue the discussion privately.

The other "pissing contest" beginning to run through the thread is adding to the deterioration and dilution of focus about the merits of the Black Series.

PM when you go drive the one that is available, I would hope in a soft market, to a qualified customer, they will give a test drive. Especially so, since it is available at MSRP.

TheCreditMan

Anything is negotiable!

Fickleone, as a successful person yourself, you know the answer to this question, come on. I don't want to put my own money into play if I can help it!

Finally, thanks for your email. I emailed you back and I look forward to speaking with you soon. All the best!

JoeShark

Damn,

Got to hand it to MW (magwheel), you have got one of the best writting styles I've seen in a long time. No matter what your posts are, whether it's about cars or you going to blow with MW (Most Wanted), they are one of the most entertaining reads. Thanks for all your contributions to this board and especially your earlier efforts when it was mostly about your great collection of cars. When I first read them, I always thought you were a very cool guy who also seemed to be extremelly humble with the things you had in life.

Nice work and look forward to more posts (whether they are about cars or your "take down" of MW.

Now where's that smiley eating the popcorn?

js

Most-Wanted

magwheel- this will be my last post addressing you as for couresty to the OP. You started all this drama by calling me out. I posted receipts pics and everything else to prove myself which you asked for and you know where the thread is I'm sure. Do not turn this around. I never started a post about the Gallardo until you posted crap everywhere about me being a fake. I only stated to one forum member he may miss his C55 after selling it as I miss mine even though I'm in a Gallardo. If that makes me a pomous azz as you say, then so be it. And I initially really wanted a CLK black too, but the wife preferred the Gallardo. After getting the run around from my dealer about color choice and delivery time I decided to get the G for my wife and take back my deposit. You are the drama queen, not me. I only did what was asked of me to clear my name as you've had it out for me forever for some reason. And what does it matter to you if I drive it for a month or a year. It is my daily driver right now and I don't want to keep it for a year. I'm trying to start a family and just want the wife to have some fun first. Yeah, I guess your right, I am a 'pompous azz'! Now would you please stop bringing up my name in random threads to start drama as you and I will obviously never get along. Some people's personalities just clash and this is a very evident case of that. You live your life happy, healthy, and the way you want and I'll do the same. Good day.

magwheel

Thanks a lot JoeShark, I'm sorry for ranting and raving every so often on MW but he POs me when I read some of his BS about himself! I hope I haven't POd some or a lot of you members off because if I did, I sincerely apologize.

I'm hoping to return to my normal 'posting roots' and do a personal review on my BS real soon and also on the S65 I just got last week! I'm really enjoying the new Mercedes line-up I have. They all offer a different ride and style that makes every one of them so much fun and enjoyable to be in.

I guess I've strayed from my initial posting style and have succumb to possibly being a jerk myself attacking MW. I've gotta go take my medication and maybe that will straighten my azz out! Magwheel

Chucky300

Those of us who know Mags - would never be upset at one of his posts!

We all anytime we see his signature - because its always nice to see a car lover enjoying the finest beauties in the world.