Earl

clk black series owners,let me here your opinions on this car please

MACHC5

It's a great car and by reading the Black Series Forum threads you'll get many view points on it...

jimand7

NOt an owner but I have driven one and it is very much closer to a 911 than a mercedes in terms of rigidity and neck snapping stopping and starting and not a great car on imperfect roads but it is a awesome to drive! fast and but very in control.

atan808

more of a gt3

Jim Brady

If you try to discribe this car and compare to a 997tt the Clk63 black is a better track car. To compare to a 997 gt3 the black is a better street car.
I can drive to the club and carry two golf bags which I can't do in the porsche.
AMG hit a home.

Jimmy

fickleone

It is equivalent to a GT3 in many respects, and probably a better choice, for most, especially if required for daily duty given its particular combination of attributes.

alexander stemer

It's a much more usable highway car than a tt, more nimble city car due to the instant acceleration from a standing start (no need to traumatize the clutch as in the tt), and has pronounced rear drive attributes that Porsche has worked to exorcise due to the "backed into a fence" epidemic of lawsuits in the 1980's. Or, you could use it to enter the pro Formula D (drift) series.
Big trunk, needs a cargo net like my E55 had.
Downside; The high seat bolster will knock your cell phone off your belt or bust the clip (I've broken 3 before I started to remember to take my cell phone off prior to entry). AS

rbtronnie5

more usable highway car? more nimble city car? have you driven a new tt?

fickleone

Are you in denial?

The BS has a lot going for it, and one of the biggest things is no Turbo lag. It is comparable to a GT3, but it leaves the TT in the dust....if you want track like performance.

If you want a boulevard cruiser then the TT has a place in your heart (imo), it is just a bigger compromise.

Think of the performance pecking order from Porsche:

TT
GT3
GT3RS
GT2

The performance pecking order from Mercedes:

BS

alexander stemer

Yes I have. Have you tried the BS? The BS has much sharper turn in, quicker jump from standing start , instant torque. The cars I haven't yet driven are the 997 GT3, Ferrari 430 and 599. Nothing else that is street-licensed can match those features.
As far as turn-in goes, my Elise 190R on slicks is better, but not much better.
If you look a the the tires, the reason is pretty clear. The BS has a front footprint very nearly equal the rear. The steering geometry is also very good.
Finally, the Porsche suspension is soft by comparison. What that means is that the car doesn't need to settle or "take a set" to the degree the tt does.

If you are the kind of guy who occasionally likes to turn the car 180 degrees in a parking lot using the throttle, the BS will also do that incredibly easily. The 997tt handling is more-likable for quick street driving than the 996tt, as it has much more rear drive "feel", but that is a trick it doesn't have.

The BS seat is also really good for highway driving (as well as spirited driving), though I haven't tried the 997tt sport seat (if one is available). AS

rbtronnie5

have i tried a black series? i own one...lol. i also have owned 2 997 turbos..one hardtop which i sold and now a cab that i still have. the bs is in no way is a better highway car. the new 997 turbos lag is minimal for city driving...almost non existent. the sus on the porsche is soft by comparison? this is just crazy....i have both cars i drive them both one after the other some days...and from my experience...i have no clue about what you are talking about. and your performance pecking order is all wrong. the tt and gt2 are paired together as are the gt3 and gt3rs. don't get me wrong...the bs is a great purist's car...much like the gt3 (i also owned a gt3 for a short stint)....i love this car...it is just not a 911 turbo counterpart....2 different beasts.

alexander stemer

Sorry, don't want to start an arguement. I didn't read your signature until after I posted.
I guess this is why they make chocolate and vanilla. I certainly understand the basis upon which I posted, so let me clarify, tho I don't expect to change your opinion by one iota.
I test drove the 997ttSC and own a 996ttX50 (along with 10 other cars, including 4 track cars). The BS initial turn in is sharper than the Porsche. The 6 speed turbo doesn't launch as well, unless you beat up the clutch. The tip 997tt is a tad sluggish unless you brake torque and floor it. I give a strong edge to the BS. I think even you admit some lag, tho minimal. Is minimal as good as absent?
As far as highway driving, putting a big V8 in the nose, dropping the car low to the ground, and managing the air flow are big keys to making the car a strong highway traveler. There, the BS is just better. Resistance to cross wind gusts is one example where the BS is better. Noise is another.
I didn't understand your pecking order point.

As far as stiffness goes, maybe our road surfaces are different. The BS is definitely on the extreme end of the spectrum, and felt like it has lots more spring rate and shock. Of course, it isn't adjustable from the driver's seat or automatically, which I also prefer for consistency. I have raced many cars which weren't as stiff as the BS. It is hard to see one ever being further along the curve than this. Maybe yours is set up softer, or you have less air in the tires. Are you running factory pressures in both?

Maybe people value different traits. I like cars that emulate the positive attributes of track cars, and I find the BS much closer to that. Tjose traits are immediacy, and extreme responsiveness to inputs of throttle, brakes, and steering wheel.Are you a racer by history, track (DE) guy, or mostly street enthusiast? Porsche has tuned much of that out of the tt, though the 997tt is a step back in the right direction.

Again, no flame intended. This reminds me of the story of blind people describing an elephant- one says it is long and skinny, one says it is flat. They are experiencing different things. I am going to guess that we demand different things from a car. AS

rbtronnie5

yes the bs is stiffer...just not a lot...at least to me. yes the turn is is better...no doubt in my mind. i was just saying that they way things were being described were off....i mean it is hard to describe something like this when you are comparing apples to oranges. the better comparison is the gt3 and the bs. you are correct to each his own...when i think of highway...i think of cruising, passing power, etc....the tt was bred to be a gt crusier...the bs was more of a track car for the streets as you are saying. my point on the city driving is yes i do agree the bs has power on tap at any moment...the porsche does too...but does have slight lag, but it is minimal and comes in fast...and sure sure makes up for the lag fast. i guess what it comes down to is all in personal preference. i buy a lot of cars because i like them for what they are. if you can tolerate a race car for the street then the bs is a wonderful car. the tt is more of a gt car...meant for being a street car that has potential to be race car worthy. i know you aren't and weren't trying to start anything...i was just saying the way it was being described...i thought the porsche had better attributes then the bs (as far as highway cruising is concerned)...and that it is no slouch when it comes to city driving. anyway as you said...to each his own...

alexander stemer

I think it is a fair discussion, and probably illustrative for the intiial poster. We really don't know what he wants.
I agree the BS and the tt are close in many areas, but arrive ther in different ways. I do think the BS has less wheel deflection (that is the spring and shock effect), but seems to have better insulation in the bushings as the passenger compartment shock is less than expected.
Race cars tend to tram line alot, which the 996GT3 also did, but the BS does not (to the same extent) That may be because the footprint isn't that big by today's standards.
Carol Shelby once said "the only substitute for cubic inches is cubic money". I think the BS certainly has the advantage of cubic inches, but the cash was a little cubic too. AS

rbtronnie5

agreed...

russjr

how did so many of you decide to compare to a porsche. the BS is superlative for what it is and i would buy mine again in a flash. having had quite a few porsche's, and been stunned at how the quality has lessened and the rapacity of the company has increased, i can't imagine ever buying a porsche again, especially with so many better choices available; even the new corvettes are better built and perform as well or better. porsches' ceo repeatedly crows that this is the world's most profitable car company: have you really thought through the full implications of that statement?

fickleone

I think that is what I was trying to do with my previous comments:

"It is equivalent to a GT3 in many respects, and probably a better choice, for most, especially if required for daily duty given its particular combination of attributes."

I agree that the TT is much too different in purpose (mellow!) to be included in the same category.

fickleone

I just spent some time with a former World Speed Challenge GT2 driver who had a chance to spend some time in the BS.

He thought it was better handling car than the GT3, but put the difference in performance down to the tires, stating that the Corsas were better than the MPSC tires. Definitiely a more practical daily driver too, raved about the engine/transmission and suspension package

Only one (well qualified) opinion, of course and worthy praise indeed. It bears out previous postings.


I probed him a little about the weight, and his comment was that unless you were racing it really wasn't an issue. And if you were racing (or good enough to), you would want a Cup Car. Common sense prevails.

As always..Horses for Courses!

Jim Brady

I've met nine BS owners (in person not on the net) eight who have had or currently own porsches. Your comments echo each's disastisfaction with the Swabbian CEO and its marque. The loan shark dealer network drove me to an alternative, and I'm so glad they did.

The new GT-R will further humble the arrogance in Weissach.
Jimmy

fickleone

It isn't the arrogance in Weissach, it is the stupid State Franchise laws and a greedy Dealer network. But, the same thing is true for MB dealers too.

Here is to each Company giving us great products. The fact that MB has produced a product, similar to Porsche, benefits us all because it raises the bar for every one.

Now, if each Company could figure out a legal way to manange the Franchises and protect their customers from gouging!

BiTurboAmg

Can any one tell me how the bs is vs a tuned sl65? Would any of you get the clk63 over a tuned sl65? I know it will out handle the sl65 but how is it in terms of driving. I drove a gallardo and it was just so much more fun to drive then the sl65. Even though the sl65 is the faster car it just lacks the soul of the gallardo. I am just wondering if the clk63 bs has the same fun factor as the gallardo. How is the 7spd? Does it shift like the 5spd using the paddles or is it faster and more like the e gear gallardo?

Schiznick

In a straight line, a stock SL65 will be faster than a Black Series. From my toying around, the Black Series is just barely faster than an E63 in a straight line. When the road turns is where this car comes into its own.

The two cars are at each end of the spectrum in my perspective.

The SL65 is the ultimate autobahn rocket. Blistering speed but luxury to match.

The Black Series is a more viseral experience but still a car that you could drive on a daily basis. It is missing many of the comforts that make other AMG's luxury cars.

I would never shop a SL65 against a CLK Black Series.

One provides luxury and performance and the other provides a near track experience.

Remember, this is a car that comes factory with R spec tires. They are there for a reason.

Enjoy!