alexander stemer

I thought a comparison of the two might be of interest, as I just updated my X50 tt with mods to bring it to GIAC stage 4, along with suspension lowering, allignment changes, and GT3 rear sway. The reason for the update is that the BS made my 450 hp Porsche seem sluggish in traffic. The timing of the report is related to the recent break in the weather that allowed me to drive them back-to-back.

First, the cost comparo: The 2002 ttX50 cost me $143,000 in 2002, the cost of all the modifications, including labor, was $12,000, for a total of $153,000.
Everybody knows the BS was purchased at sticker. Adjusting for inflation, the BS is probably $25,000 2008 dollars less costly.

In-traffic performance: The BS still feels much quicker in traffic. Despite magazine numbers (which require driveline torture in the Porsche), the BS is quicker off the line, and quicker on darting in and out of traffic. While the Porsche has more dyno horsepower (claimed 510 wheel hp), it isn't available everywhere that daily driving can tap it. Even from the passenger seat (if you believe my wife) the BS feels faster. Above 90 mph that changes, and as the Porsche can stay in the 4500-6400 rpm range, it is obviously stronger.

Street handling: (I am an "aggressive" street driver.) The Porsche is much improved with aftermarket suspension, making one wonder about factory decisions. Still, the BS is much sharper on turn in, and overall more accurate. I also much prefer the rear-steer characteristic of the BS.

Comfort: The Porsche is softer over broken pavement and ridges ( much of that around the midwest), but the BS seats and interior are better.

Mileage: BS is about 1.5 mpg worse, as the Porsche got much better after the reflash and muffler/cat change.

Fun: No question, BS by a whole bunch. The BS is much more involving, more challenging (even with the auto box), and feels much more tied to your torso.

Usability: BS has much more trunk space, but very limited utility in snow and ice. For driving south, I'd take the BS. For driving west, it would have to be the Porsche. If there was a snow tire, I'd drive the BS year round.

Interesting sidelight on prestige: This isn't something I was looking for, but when we got out of the car at Brasserie Ruhlman ( a Chicago hot spot restaurant that is a real "see and be seen" place), the valet's ran to the car. I hadn't been there for 4 months, also in the BS at that time. The valet said, "Weren't you here before? Even the drivers of other Mercedes stop to look at your car". There are lots of Porsches around, so it seems that the uniquness of the BS is very apparant. (please no comments on the value of valet prestige. it isn't important to me, wasn't a decision factor, and came out unexpectedly. I mention it only because this is a place that has lots of fancy cars, so I was surprised mine was remembered)

Value: As I need to move the Porsche out of being owned by the business, I needed an appraisal from my dealer. The quote came back at $43,000 (no value for the mods). If you ignore the aftermarket stuff, that means it cost $100,000 to drive for 6 years. I don't think the BS will be worse than that. So, to answer all the concerns about depreciation, it seems to be about equal to the industry "best" standards, namely Porsche.

In summary, the enhanced Porsche is great, but the BS is greater.
Let me know what you think. AS

573WHPCLS

Great insight, I love my Black Series as well, but unfortunatly I too live near Chicago and did not take delivery of my Black Series until mid December so I have only been able to rack up about 500 miles on it. I'm still afraid to take it out much because these pot holes are the worst I've ever seen. The car does draw a crowd that's for sure. It does not matter if it's at a gas station or a Starbucks, I can't get in or out of my car without somebody asking me about it. I was not expecting that when I purchsed the car, nor is that the reason I purchased the car. I feel it is probably the least "exotic" looking "exotic" out there. I own a heavily modded CLS 55 and a new Z06 and while the Black is not up to speed power wise with the CLS it feels much faster and more agile than the the Z06. I have yet to line them up side by side for a real test.

I have wondered about how a Black would perform head to head against a tt or even a GT2 or GT3, there has been lots of "talk" on these threads about how the Black would fare, but I want to see first hand. I think the Black would suprise and silence a lot of people.

Enjoy, and maybe I will see you in my travels in the area.

fickleone

[QUOTE=
In summary, the enhanced Porsche is great, but the BS is greater.
Let me know what you think. AS[/QUOTE]

We can all see from various posts that the BS is a much maligned car. It seems to stem from the history of AMG depreciation and it certainly can't be from the driving experience, because, relatively, so few have been sold/driven.

I remember when the The RS America came out (92/93) and the Dealers had a hell of a time selling them, too hard core and yet it became one of the all great time Porsches to own. In fact, owning that car caused immense dissatisfaction with my 996 TT which always seemed to be a bit of a pig in the handling area, and moved me toward a 996 GT2 (and 3), both of which I loved.

I, again, remember when the 997 GT3 was introduced and panned, because of the sunroof, not hard core enough this time. I insisted since I had an early one that it was a vast improvement over the earlier model; well it took a while but people caught on.

So what does all this have to do with the BS? Well, there are a lot of similarities. The BS is a marvelous car to drive and track, it is better than a GT3 is some ways and lacking in others (I wish it had ceramic brakes). But, all in all, a near equivalent, and if you consider current prices a smoking deal (Just like the RS America turned out to be).

For those who think the car is heavy on a track or compromised in any way let me suggest the following.

If you think the BS limits you on the track, then the GT3 has similar (but different limitations) and you should be looking for a Cup or equivalent to get your jollies, and a racing license too. Nothing less will satisfy you, so I suggest you save some money and skip the intermediate steps.

The limits of the the BS and GT3 are way beyond most weekend warriors, even accomplished ones. I know there are the rare and talented ones out there, but they can't all be on these boards, can they?

As a daily driver, the BS is a more usable car than the GT3, height, ride transmission; and my wife feels from the passenger seat that it is special the way it handles too.

I am always amazed about the basis for some opinions, but let me repeat the BS, at current discounts is a much better buy (imo) than a GT3 (premium or not) and will provide all the challenge feedback and fun. To put these in perspective I have nothing negative at all on the GT3, and I own one too.


So, if you are in a dither, go back to the drawing board and decide what you really want from a car. The auto in BS is probably the biggest incremental difference and makes it more useable on a daily basis and it adopts to the track like a duck to water. I am a stick shift guy, and I like the BS a lot.

johno530

I get a kick out of the guys following me taking pictures with their cell phones, while their wives/girlfriends yell at them. One time two guys followed my wife and me for 2 miles until we parked. Then they got out of their car, and, on their knees, started doing the “we’re not worthy” bow. They apologized for “stalking” us, and then asked if they could take pictures. I watched two valets almost get in a fight in San Francisco – the keys came back with a “managers only” sticker on them.

Jim Brady

Nice comments guys,

The one thing that the turbo porsche brings to the table is an unlimited ability to modify its performance from handling to engine power. One is never quite sure what level of upgrades are underneath the skin of 911 trubos you may encounter.

I was quite happy how the BS distinguished itself at my recent track days in which it made short work of a 996tt stage two. The purpose of this car is fun and after reading Jrcarts mods, and figuring that his car has low 11 second (maybe 10's with DR) potential with some exhaust and ecu changes makes me a little more excited about it's potential. I'll be keeping this car for a while longer.

MACHC5

I also plan on keeping my BS for a few years.. so much so... I added a 7-Yr warranty for some piece of mind.

Right now it sets in the house garage next to my 1990 ZR1 Corvette that I bought 18-Yrs ago. The reason is I like it as much as I liked the ZR1 when I bought it.

Jim

alexander stemer

It's interesting that there are just a few hundred of us that will know what this car feels like, and everyone else will just opine.
After I posted this morning, I joined 7 buddies for an afternoon at the big indoor go kart track in Buffalo Grove. After 75 very fun laps (3 races of 15 laps, one of 30), I realized why I love the handling of the BS. It is just like a go kart.
Coming out of a corner, it jumps a little and tightens the line, so you just twitch the wheel to the outside and keep on the gas. It kind of makes me smile, when I think how simple that sounds. You spend all this money so a car can handle like something that just costs a few thousand dollars. But there is no purer handling car.
All the negative "weight" comments are also a bit humorous, as you never feel the BS weight when you are driving. A go kart actually 'feels" heavier, as you fight the steering wheel, and keep wanting more power to push the weight.
So there it is. A total non sequiter of comparing a BS to a go kart and a 996tt, all in the same day. It may just be that to understand the BS, you need to have spent some time on a track. AS

jrcart

Just wait until you fiddle around with your suspension and ride height a bit. I was out all afternoon in mine and your go-kart description sums it up best, if you even think about turning the car responds. My new springs, tires and ride height make it feel even more like the real thing. The more I drive it the more I fall in love. A lot of people questioned why I bough this car, I just hand them the keys or put them in the co-pilots seat and it becomes self explainatory.

WSH

Very nice summary, AS...thanks

Agree, suspect weight is less of an issue vs past w/latest chassis tech....after all, 599 is some 4000lbs....

Have been positively surprised w/capabilities of my CL63 on mtn twisties, despite 4600+lbs....expect better w/4300lb SL63 030...and even better w/<4000lb SL Blk....(and ever-faster/smarter gearboxes/chassis hardware/software)....

Reality is most will lack an ability to drive any of these cars meaningfully...kind of hard unless one can buy/lease one for a 2-3K mi test-drive on interesting roads, right? And most journalists are morons, so difficult to draw conclusions from reviews...

What doesn't synch w/me, from a common-sense perspective, is that, if R&D is at all competent/productive, I can't envision any car being desirable some 6-12mos post-launch......who wants a >2yo Blkberry or smartphone or laptop????....these are tech devices, after all.....not low-tech bottles of Petrus or allegedly precise Pateks....

Addicted2Speed

Well what can you really expect... 996TT is a ten year old car, can't really compare it to a brand new car. I would be more interested in hearing how it compares to a 997TT.

jrcart

You want to see what a Black Series will do against a new 997tt? Here is a little hint!

alexander stemer

I did drive a 997tt before buying the BS. I found it to be a modest improvement, without notably better power (the numbers are better but the feel isn't), a better interior, more ability to break the rear loose with throttle, still with an understeer characteristic on turn in, and frankly not interesting enough to move from the 996tt platform. In fact, if one calls the 996tt a 10 year old car, then the 997 tt is an 11 year old car (well, now 12). It feels very much like an evolved 996tt, which it is. It isn't more interesting or exciting, but is more boulevard friendly, as it feels softer. Kind of like your college girlfriend, 12 years later. More cushion for the pushin'. AS