520 vs 500 hp?
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
520 vs 500 hp?
I seen several references to the black series having 520 hp. In the fifth gear video, they said it had 520 hp.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=utg50h8TurQ&feature=related
It is not a DIN vs SAE thing so anyone have an explanation. Was the number simply misquoted and spread around a bit?
Also, I bought a BS this past Wednesday night. I was hoping to pick it up tomorrow but the blue tooth module did not come in today so it won't be ready until Monday and they have already done the disassembly. Bummer!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=utg50h8TurQ&feature=related
It is not a DIN vs SAE thing so anyone have an explanation. Was the number simply misquoted and spread around a bit?
Also, I bought a BS this past Wednesday night. I was hoping to pick it up tomorrow but the blue tooth module did not come in today so it won't be ready until Monday and they have already done the disassembly. Bummer!
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
I seen several references to the black series having 520 hp. In the fifth gear video, they said it had 520 hp.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=utg50h8TurQ&feature=related
It is not a DIN vs SAE thing so anyone have an explanation. Was the number simply misquoted and spread around a bit?
Also, I bought a BS this past Wednesday night. I was hoping to pick it up tomorrow but the blue tooth module did not come in today so it won't be ready until Monday and they have already done the disassembly. Bummer!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=utg50h8TurQ&feature=related
It is not a DIN vs SAE thing so anyone have an explanation. Was the number simply misquoted and spread around a bit?
Also, I bought a BS this past Wednesday night. I was hoping to pick it up tomorrow but the blue tooth module did not come in today so it won't be ready until Monday and they have already done the disassembly. Bummer!
The 520bhp is misinformation just as it was when he said it was a 6.3liter engine rather than a 6.2liter.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
Dunno - - perhaps the Euro RoW cars have the same tuning as the CL's?? Its the same motor. Interesting what he had to say about the driveability below 4k rpms.
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I was told last night that the CLK63 Black Series has closer to 550 hp. This from a source that should know.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
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2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Ya, I would agree with LZH, stock CLK BS's are making nowhere near 550 hp. Mine produced 419.8hp at the wheels bone stock, which converts (x17% driveline loss) to about 491hp at the crank, and that might even be an aggresive multiplier. With all of the mods I had done, my final 502hp at the wheels only converts to about 587hp at the crank. So ya, 550hp stock is nothing but a pipe dream, I don't care how reliable the source was that told you this, but it is bad information.
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The 5.5L S/C'd engine in the E55's was really a 5.4L - for some reason, I don't recall as many people making a point of "it's a five point FOUR liter, not a five point five liter" that time around...
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Is it true that there's nothing going on below 4k? I respect Plato's driving skills but think he's got to be exaggerating here.
C32AMG-dtm...your post adds nothing to this debate. My point was that motoring journos, many of whom cannot afford the cars they're reviewing, too often don't take the time to learn and relay the correct information.
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2009 SL63 AMG
Ya, I would agree with LZH, stock CLK BS's are making nowhere near 550 hp. Mine produced 419.8hp at the wheels bone stock, which converts (x17% driveline loss) to about 491hp at the crank, and that might even be an aggresive multiplier. With all of the mods I had done, my final 502hp at the wheels only converts to about 587hp at the crank. So ya, 550hp stock is nothing but a pipe dream, I don't care how reliable the source was that told you this, but it is bad information.
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2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
That happened with the E46 M3 (333bhp US vs 339bhp Euro) but the literature says the CLK BS are the same both sides of the pond.
Is it true that there's nothing going on below 4k? I respect Plato's driving skills but think he's got to be exaggerating here.
C32AMG-dtm...your post adds nothing to this debate. My point was that motoring journos, many of whom cannot afford the cars they're reviewing, too often don't take the time to learn and relay the correct information.
Is it true that there's nothing going on below 4k? I respect Plato's driving skills but think he's got to be exaggerating here.
C32AMG-dtm...your post adds nothing to this debate. My point was that motoring journos, many of whom cannot afford the cars they're reviewing, too often don't take the time to learn and relay the correct information.
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Like you said, rule of thumb...everyones thumb is different. 17%-21% for automatics is what I have always heard and used, it will vary for every car depending on drivetrain, equipment, wheels, etc. The only way to get a true figure is to pull the motor and dyno it and then re-install it and dyno it, that will give you the real % loss factor. I was just being conservative, I could have used 20% and said my car makes 602+hp. Plus the fact that my car has ultra light weight Dymags Wheels on it the true number is probably closer to the 17% loss than the 20% loss.
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From: Central New Jersey
CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Oldgixxer,
I think I may have that higher trap speed thingy fixed.
Most every time on the top end I would feel a slight few stumbles like it was pulling timing or fuel. I've also had it as of late with my EVO MR and ordered some bug juice to try to fix it.
Last night I tried the Amsoil Octane Boost into my EVO and it dead on stop the knock and the car pulls like stink again. I think I'll try it in the CLK63 BS and see what it does for it.
There maybe something funny (bad) with the 93 octane winter gas their selling with the ethanol in my area.
Jim
I think I may have that higher trap speed thingy fixed.
Most every time on the top end I would feel a slight few stumbles like it was pulling timing or fuel. I've also had it as of late with my EVO MR and ordered some bug juice to try to fix it.
Last night I tried the Amsoil Octane Boost into my EVO and it dead on stop the knock and the car pulls like stink again. I think I'll try it in the CLK63 BS and see what it does for it.
There maybe something funny (bad) with the 93 octane winter gas their selling with the ethanol in my area.
Jim
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Now that difference should be just DIN vs SAE. US uses SAE and Europe uses DIN (metric). 507 DIN = 500 SAE. Divide DIN by 1.0139 to get SAE.
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From: Central New Jersey
CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Ya, I would agree with LZH, stock CLK BS's are making nowhere near 550 hp. Mine produced 419.8hp at the wheels bone stock, which converts (x17% driveline loss) to about 491hp at the crank, and that might even be an aggresive multiplier. With all of the mods I had done, my final 502hp at the wheels only converts to about 587hp at the crank. So ya, 550hp stock is nothing but a pipe dream, I don't care how reliable the source was that told you this, but it is bad information.
I was very surprised to find out at the NY Auto Show that your car and your project is know by some people who are very high up in Mercedes and their comment was "A real 600 flywheel hp with just exhaust, tuning and everything else done in that write-up... it ain't happening".
Yes, they have their own thoughts about how much added power you really got without the light wheels.
Remember... they always test things to destruction.
PM me for details if you like.
Jim
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From: L.A., CA
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Therefore, the US E46 M3 does make slightly less power Stateside vs ROW.
This has happened before. Remember, in Europe the E36 M3 put out 286bhp from the stock 3.0liter while in the US people had to make do with just 240bhp. This situation worsened when the E36 was facelifted with the 3.2liter and Europeans M3s got boosted up to 321bhp while the cars here remained at only 240bhp.
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2009 SL63 AMG
Like you said, rule of thumb...everyones thumb is different. 17%-21% for automatics is what I have always heard and used, it will vary for every car depending on drivetrain, equipment, wheels, etc. The only way to get a true figure is to pull the motor and dyno it and then re-install it and dyno it, that will give you the real % loss factor. I was just being conservative, I could have used 20% and said my car makes 602+hp. Plus the fact that my car has ultra light weight Dymags Wheels on it the true number is probably closer to the 17% loss than the 20% loss.
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From: Lake Forest, IL
08 CLK63 Black Series, 11 ZR1, 13 M6, 15 G63
Jrcart,
I was very surprised to find out at the NY Auto Show that your car and your project is know by some people who are very high up in Mercedes and their comment was "A real 600 flywheel hp with just exhaust, tuning and everything else done in that write-up... it ain't happening".
Yes, they have their own thoughts about how much added power you really got without the light wheels.
Remember... they always test things to destruction.
PM me for details if you like.
Jim
I was very surprised to find out at the NY Auto Show that your car and your project is know by some people who are very high up in Mercedes and their comment was "A real 600 flywheel hp with just exhaust, tuning and everything else done in that write-up... it ain't happening".
Yes, they have their own thoughts about how much added power you really got without the light wheels.
Remember... they always test things to destruction.
PM me for details if you like.
Jim
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
I've talk to AMG and they say exhaust headers and ecu is conservatively 40 hp. EVOsports mod's were more extensive. I would bet that we didn't hear all the details of Jrcarts mods. I sure as hell wouldn't tell the world if I found out the secret recipe and post it on the internet if I were Evosport.
FWIW, there's more in these motors than most people realize. If Jrcart is beating a stocker by 12 car lengths I'm f...ing impressed. BTW, AMG monitors these boards and I know that for a fact.
Jimmy
FWIW, there's more in these motors than most people realize. If Jrcart is beating a stocker by 12 car lengths I'm f...ing impressed. BTW, AMG monitors these boards and I know that for a fact.
Jimmy
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
I've talk to AMG and they say exhaust headers and ecu is conservatively 40 hp. EVOsports mod's were more extensive. I would bet that we didn't hear all the details of Jrcarts mods. I sure as hell wouldn't tell the world if I found out the secret recipe and post it on the internet if I were Evosport.
FWIW, there's more in these motors than most people realize. If Jrcart is beating a stocker by 12 car lengths I'm f...ing impressed. BTW, AMG monitors these boards and I know that for a fact.
Jimmy
FWIW, there's more in these motors than most people realize. If Jrcart is beating a stocker by 12 car lengths I'm f...ing impressed. BTW, AMG monitors these boards and I know that for a fact.
Jimmy
Hi Jimmy,
Those light wheels could be 4 to 5 of those 12 car lengths.
If each wheel is equal to 10 to 12 hp saving X 4 = 40 to 50 hp advantage over a stock wheel car. Those wheels are no doubt a smart move.
Jim
Last edited by MACHC5; Mar 22, 2008 at 11:41 PM.
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
I think it is a combination of the new rear rotors and the wheels. Significant difference in rotational mass and unsprung weight. I agree, 40% of the gain probably came come from the wheels/brakes. However, while great for hp, the wheels are quite an impact to the pocket book. They cost more than 10K.
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From: Hollywood CA
2011 twin turboed prius
Oldgixxer,
I think I may have that higher trap speed thingy fixed.
Most every time on the top end I would feel a slight few stumbles like it was pulling timing or fuel. I've also had it as of late with my EVO MR and ordered some bug juice to try to fix it.
Last night I tried the Amsoil Octane Boost into my EVO and it dead on stop the knock and the car pulls like stink again. I think I'll try it in the CLK63 BS and see what it does for it.
There maybe something funny (bad) with the 93 octane winter gas their selling with the ethanol in my area.
Jim
I think I may have that higher trap speed thingy fixed.
Most every time on the top end I would feel a slight few stumbles like it was pulling timing or fuel. I've also had it as of late with my EVO MR and ordered some bug juice to try to fix it.
Last night I tried the Amsoil Octane Boost into my EVO and it dead on stop the knock and the car pulls like stink again. I think I'll try it in the CLK63 BS and see what it does for it.
There maybe something funny (bad) with the 93 octane winter gas their selling with the ethanol in my area.
Jim
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From: Central New Jersey
CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Hi Juice,
I'd try the Amsoil Octane Boost in your car it may help with the crappy Cali gas.
Two weeks ago I found a great article on Octane Boosters and Amsoil's was second best at $10 a bottle vs. #1 at $30+ a bottle.
The stuff works....
I'd try the Amsoil Octane Boost in your car it may help with the crappy Cali gas.
Two weeks ago I found a great article on Octane Boosters and Amsoil's was second best at $10 a bottle vs. #1 at $30+ a bottle.
The stuff works....
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
I've run BBS magnesium wheels that where substantially less than previous set ups and haven't experienced anything near that kind of gain and I've had similar weight savings. My guess it is a lot of little things that have added up to make the difference. We don't know all the details of JRcarts car. I think there's more to this story then we've been told.
Jimmy
