Selling the BS.... Price?
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From: L.A., CA
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
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2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
, you were leaving lots of money on the table, it was like free money.Now times have changed, we can't count on 8% returns so paying cash makes a little more sense.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
I can't agree with this statement. Up until 6-8 months ago paying cash for big ticket items was not the smartest way to do it. Finance, finance, finace, put as little down as possible and invest the rest of the money. Why pay cash for a $100k car when you could invest that $100k and easily make 7-8% or more return on the investment when banks and car manufacturers where offering 36-60 month financing at 0-5.9%, not to mention any additional write offs financing or a lease would bring. Just to say you "own" something, you were leaving lots of money on the table, it was like free money.
Now times have changed, we can't count on 8% returns so paying cash makes a little more sense.
, you were leaving lots of money on the table, it was like free money.Now times have changed, we can't count on 8% returns so paying cash makes a little more sense.
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SL55AMG, Ferrari 348, Ferrari Testarossa, Ferrari F40, Ferrari Mondial t, Ducati 916, Indycar
I have just been offered a 2K mile BS for $90K, and I think there may be a bit more room. They started at $99, and quickly called back and offered the car at $90.
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Take it, that's a pretty fair deal for this economy. More importantly, you'll really forget what you paid for this car once you're in it.
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ML350
I recently posted a thread about people getting denied loans on $60,000 cars with high 700 credit scores or being told they have to cough up huge down payments. A good friend of mine is the GM at a large Audi dealership, he said they are getting people in the door that want to spend money but they can't get financed and nobody has $20,000 sitting around to use as a down payment. He says they see 2 types of buyers at the Audi dealerships, the 17-20% of buyers that walk in and write a check for an A6 or A8 and the other 80% that walk in with $1000.00 or less to put down on a car. 13 years ago I was making a fraction of what I make now, I walked into my local BMW dealership signed my name and drive off with a a 1995 BMW M3 with no money down and a trade I was upsidedown on...boy how have times changed. Two weeks ago I was buying a new ride that was only $45,000 and you would have thought I was asking for a $3,000,000 mortgage with all the garbage the needed to see.
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2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
It's all relative, person making $60k a year that buys a $30K Camry is really no different than a person making $400K buying a $200K car..they both just spent half their yearly income on a car, right? I would assume that most of the guys on here that bought a new Black Series make well over $250k a year. The reality is that most people spend more than half their yearly income on when purchasing a new car.
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It's all relative, person making $60k a year that buys a $30K Camry is really no different than a person making $400K buying a $200K car..they both just spent half their yearly income on a car, right? I would assume that most of the guys on here that bought a new Black Series make well over $250k a year. The reality is that most people spend more than half their yearly income on when purchasing a new car.
Tom
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From: Maui, Hawaii
CLS63, GLK350
Very true...you can even make the point that the person making $400K has way more disposable income in relation to other expenses (depending on other lifestyle choices). So that person with $400K in income would have even less of a financial strain purchasing a $200K car than the person getting the Camry. Everything is relative.
Tom
Tom
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
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CLK63 Black Series
How much you make is irrelevant. If you want the car bad enough and have the means then go for it. Life's short and you only live once. The only reason to be worried about how much other people make is if you bought the car as a status symbol, and honestly if you bought a CLK black as a status symbol you could have done a whole lot better.
/makes less than 250k
/makes less than 250k
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From: South Florida
ML350
Miami is all about bling so yes i see tons of people living beyond their means driving a BMW or MB or whatever......i also see people wearing LV and Coach handbags and tons of jewelry paying for food with foodstamps. But i dont think they are thinking life is short. I agree life is short, but the stress of making payments one possibly cant afford takes the fun out life, makes one lose sleep....isnt worth it.
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
How much you make is irrelevant. If you want the car bad enough and have the means then go for it. Life's short and you only live once. The only reason to be worried about how much other people make is if you bought the car as a status symbol, and honestly if you bought a CLK black as a status symbol you could have done a whole lot better.
/makes less than 250k
/makes less than 250k
BTW you totaly contradicted yourself in your post, in one sentence you state "How much you make is irrelevant" and then you say "if you have the means then go for it"
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'14 ML BT
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
No it's not.
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
I think Jim is still right....excusing their actions as a reult of "peer pressure" lets people off the hook for irresponsible behavior. You have valid points across the board too...but I wouldn't limit the blame to the people in charge of the Fed or Treasury and just the mortgage brokers/banks.
Tom
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 950
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From: Maui, Hawaii
CLS63, GLK350
No it's not.
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,146
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From: L.A., CA
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
"How much you make is irrelevant" ??? WTF??? This is exactly this kind of thinking that has gotten this country into the mess it is in today. People having to buy stuff they really can't afford, the bigger house, the nicer car(s), the boat/yacht, the bigger diamond ring, etc. How much you make is the most relevant part! I'm sorry, but a person that does not have a household income that is at least close to $250k a year or have a 7 figure nest-egg or trust fund sitting around should not be buying a $140k automobile...call me crazy, but that is a prime example of living beyond your means IMO.
BTW you totaly contradicted yourself in your post, in one sentence you state "How much you make is irrelevant" and then you say "if you have the means then go for it"
BTW you totaly contradicted yourself in your post, in one sentence you state "How much you make is irrelevant" and then you say "if you have the means then go for it"
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 420
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CLK Black
No it's not.
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
If you make 100K you shouldn't be buying a 100K car no matter how many people enable and encourage you.
You still know that it won't work.
This must all be based on this "new math" I keep hearing about.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: South Florida
ML350
actually i can go further into why this all happened, and i dont blame Bush a whole lot. Who should you blame about our current financial mess with banks who loaned money to people who couldnt afford the homes?.....we are all responsible for that. But also banks were forced to make sub-prime loans and this was proudly announced by the Clinton administration's Andrew Cuomo on April 6, 1998. During the press conference Cuomo admitted that there would be a higher default rate on these loans. They did it anyway. Did u know that Obama was an attorney who won a large case that forced banks into making these loans to people who couldnt afford them?
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.js...81474977473892
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.js...81474977473892
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 148
From: South Florida
ML350
also, i blame the head of the Finance committee, Barney Frank, a democrat from New Jersey. He said ON TELEVISION a few months before the failure of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae that everything was fine and they were strong. How did that end up? The head of the finance committee is in charge of overseeing our nation's financial district. He is partially responsible for the billions of retirement dollars lost by the people of this country.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 55
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
No it's not.
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
The banks (investment and commercial) and brokers were falsifying applications long ago and then discovered how easy it was with NINJA loans (No Income No Job or Assets) to create cash flow and pad their accounts. This explosion of credit drove housing prices straight up (in many markets) and created demand for new houses. Houses that the market didn't need.
They (houses) then became a revolving credit card which could be tapped every 12 months for 30k to 40k in home equity cash. Real estate always goes up, right?
Credit became so easy that peer pressure dominated people to the point where they had to have 2 newer, bigger better SUV's and home than the folks next door.
The manufacturers and media participated by telling you, "You deserve it now", "why wait, you can have it today" and the whole culture of instant gratification became a religion.
Then you're receiving 3 and 4 credit card offers PER DAY in the mail and how could people not fall for it .... unless they had some personal discipline?
I'm blaming Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson, they put the mechanisms in place for this lunacy and then stood by and watched it explode.
They cooked the dope, our politicians injected it and "we the people" got addicted. Clinton and Bush were just tools for them ... and both elitist groups view the rest of us as collateral damage.
/rant
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 55
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
also, i blame the head of the Finance committee, Barney Frank, a democrat from New Jersey. He said ON TELEVISION a few months before the failure of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae that everything was fine and they were strong. How did that end up? The head of the finance committee is in charge of overseeing our nation's financial district. He is partially responsible for the billions of retirement dollars lost by the people of this country.
What I do know is we have a mess on our hands that is the result of the government, the banks and greedy and irresponsible people and now the rest of us are going to be handed a broom by Mr Obama and asked to clean up the mess.
Last edited by jrcart; Feb 26, 2009 at 08:23 PM.
