AMG Dictator

Found it - This must not have been what you were talking about. My bad.

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...?t=2484&page=3

I am very impressed with all of the modifications and the results that you have achieved.

(you realize that we prefer that no aftermarket modificaions are made to our vehicles, of course...)

I really appreciate your CLK 63 AMG Black Series enthusiasm and I am sure hat many Private Lounge member appreciate your car.

Rob Allan



Quote:
Originally Posted by JRCART
I'm sure some of you know me from some other boards. I just thought I would share with the rest of you what the 63 motor is capable of. I have some mods done to the car and I'm not finished yet. Here is a breif list of my mods and the results I have acheived.

Long Tube headers

Cat Delete

Stainless X-Pipe

Kleeman Resonators

Stock AMG Exhaust (very impressive)

ECU tune

Large capacity airbox w/modified intake tubes

Roll bar

CF front diffuser

Larger CF rear lip spoiler

Dymag CF wheels 19x9.5 front 19x11 rear w/305's

Steel brake lines

The car now make an honest 511.2 HP @ the wheels

This car is nearly perfect from the factory. I felt that it needed some aditional grip and downforce for the track (I actually use this thing for what it was meant for). Knowing that these things are strangled with emissions devices I knew there was some more power on tap if we got it breating better.

In full road race set-up I was able to run an 11.61 @ 122mph with the Pirelli Corsas and I was able to acheive 11.48 @ 123 with a set of 17" Mickey Thompson Street E/T tires mounted on a very special set of custom Forgeline wheels with an off=set that would allow for a 17" clear brakes and everything else.

I also want to add that I acheived a top speed of 206 mph (gps confirmed) in this car with the mods once we eliminated the top speed limiter.

Anyone that though this 63 motor is not as capable as the 55's better look again, this is a strong and dependable motor and I expect to go even faster with it inthe near future when the weather cools down a little bit.

Here are some pics...enjoy. Now if one of you big wigs at AMG coud just furnish me with the key to unlock the torque limiting sofware and the throttle postition sofware I could make this thing go REAL FAST!

AMG Dictator

I have to be honest, I have had a couple of email exchanges with the Lounge and I have never had a conversation like the one you had nor have I ever seen them respond to another question like that. (and I am on there every other day or so)

In fact, I am shocked to hear you got more from them other than, sorry we can not diagnose your problem over the web please call Mercedes Benz USA directly.

They really sent you that?

Oh well, live and learn.....

DFW01E55

The guys running the PL are Americans.

Jim Brady

Luke,you hit the nail on the head. It's well known that AMG watches this board and especially this thread, as it's the most serious perfomance car that they have introduced. I don't think AMG expected the reaction not to leave well enough alone. We know the factory had a performance ECU and header package. They didn't believe that JRCart and Evosport could replacate it or surpass it.

There are AMG guys who think like we do, but they've been sent to the make cup holders for green cars. For the AMG lerkers you know whom I'm talking about. Don't make any waves, right!
Here's the problem AMG, you delivered the CLK63 BS and a good number of buyers what more. You have more (Ring Taxi 580 hp) yet you hide behind the legal arrogance.
Why don't you want to establish a performance parts network? When we ask to source the track related parts we are laughed at after spending 135K.
Give the customer what they want, it's easy.

LZH

True, and I am very impressed with how those guys are running the site and communicating with customers. However, we all know when it comes to the topic at hand that they are simply messengers relaying a message to the top brass in Germany.

LZH

Well said, Jimmy. Regarding the bold above...that is what really yanked my chain. When I saw the first pics of that car my mind started racing. Then when the video's of it at LS appeared I felt really duped. Remember, besides the North American certification issues, AMG said the main reason they could not deliver the Speedshift Plus software to us is becasue it needed to be tested in a multitude of enironments to ensure its reliability for the CLK Black Series platform. I'm sorry, but those white "taxis" ripping around on the track are the perfect test bed for reliability testing and we all heard them rev matching downshifts - check out 44 seconds in to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1gxI8zVjzE

The race track is the BEST place to test for reliability and IIRC we were told that it could not be done well before they had these cars at Laguna Seca and I guarantee you those cars were already built well before I made the initial request on the PL. Again, I really don't care anymore and I'm very surprised they had the audacity to deny our request and then shove those "taxis" down our throats. I plan on keeping my car forever, but I doubt another NEW AMG is anywhere in the near future for me.

AMG Dictator

I was told by a guy that attended the LS event that the White cars actually had the MCT not the regular 7 speed in it.

Can we really compare 2 race built CLK's to ours as far as parts being ready for production?

From what I saw in the pictures, those cars share little more than a CLK name with our cars.

I really want that center hub set up and brakes but I doubt I could afford them. Did you hear them squeak in the video when the car came to a stop? Can you imagine the look at the dealer on that one?

The remind me of updated versions of the orange CLK DTM's that they had running around at AMG events.

I was at an Aston Martin event not too long ago and they had one of their DBR9 race cars on display. They wouldn't even talk to me about buying one of them either.

Oh well, no one want's our money!

Jim Brady

[QUOTE=AMG Dictator;3486636]0
Can we really compare 2 race built CLK's to ours as far as parts being ready for production?

AMG,
They are stripped and cagged CLK's with triangulated frames (just like ours) and a lotta parts out of their racing bin. I don't give a rip if my brakes squeek on the track. I've lived with Pagid Orange on my porsche and there is nothing louder.

Porsche has made a fortune selling their race parts out the back door. I've bought a major 401k's worth over the years. My gripe is that the white Ring BS is like waiving a steak in front of a starving man.
I'm not going with the wide body kit, but look at the wheels and hubs and the traction control system.
I would like to see the car raced or at the very least run it at the Ring to give it some cred. Nope, no goodies for the CLK BS guys. Meanwhile over at porsche, yes Mr. Jimmy you can have your GT3RS with center lock wheels, and what color wheels would you like.

DFW01E55

That's how you get to be the most profitable car company in the world. Give the customer what they want and make them pay through the nose!
Oh, and paint to sample ... MB might be starting to catch on.

otoupalik

i thought BMW was the most profitable?

AMG Dictator

[QUOTE=Jim Brady;3486940]As a multiple 911 owner as well, this took a very long time. Isn't this the first year that you could get center locks from Porsche for a 911? And the new GT3 is the first standard production car (not the CGT) to have them.

We still battle with the same issues of cooler parts being offered in Europe every day. You should have seen that battle I has with them over all the trick GT3 RS parts I wanted. I got them but it was not easy and they are not covered under and warranty.

All I am saying is that as the CLK was the first car of its kind in the US for AMG. We need to just keep yelling and hope they will listen and take our money. That and we need to stop with the stupid lawsuits in the US and take responsibility for our actions.

I want all the same things you want. I don't know why but I guess that I just expect it is going to take a while to get through all the politics.

Doctodd33

lawsuits will never end here......even if they want to socialize medicine, the biggest hurdle will be how to handle lawsuits. There are too many politicians who are attorneys, and attorneys have a very strong lobby as well. It is a game of checks and balances, and socializing medicine means no lawsuits unless absolutely clear negligence.

Jim Brady

It was reported that porsche makes over $23,000 per unit Audi was around $2000. Don't recall BMW but it wasn't even close.

DFW01E55

That's the benefit of using the same basic design over decades and making incremental changes only as it suits you (Porsche).
I tip my hat to them in envy. I wish that I had such a loyal customer base.

JDB

Re: Lawsuits
While on various trips to Europe, I can remember hearing a continuing refrain about how the predilection of people from the U.S. for lawsuits prevented AMG from doing / offering various modifications or improvements to their vehicles. It was very frustrating to be at Affalterbach or one of the various racetracks and to be able to see European customers' cars with enticing modifications that simply were "not possible" for any U.S. VIN car.

I tried various different techniques, and even with some things that I considered to be simple requests, and still was met with the same resistance. As a last resort, I even asked if work could be performed on my vehicle if I took delivery of it, and returned with it to Affalterbach, and that's when I got the definitive rejection for any U.S. VIN car.

Anyone else have any better luck?
JDB

Jim Brady

Concur, their loyal customer base has drank the kool aid.https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/cheers.gif As far as a company they are nothing but greedy turds who f***ed the hedge fund boys
which is what AIG was trying to do and came up short.

I would hope that AMG will get the fact that the buyers of performace models are not satisfied with T shirts and caps. We want the parts.

LZH

That's the problem buddy...they've been dealing with and selling cars to guys who only care about tee shirts and caps....they've never had to actually perform for the PERFORMANCE guys. Previously, a good car with a good warranty was all that mattered. Now they;ve got guys like us who are really serious, similar to the diehard 911 owners and they blame it on a litigious society. Well, Porsche figures out how to do it and look at the results...
And pardon me but there are plenty of ways to get around lawsuits. AMG coudl make this happen by simply making owners sign waiver....

AMG Dictator

We can't event get caps and tee shirts.

It took porsche a long time to figure this out. I just think it is going to take them a while to figure this customer base out.

All owners of Black Series cars represent what about 1% of AMG's sold in 2008. Of that I would guess that 75% of our fellow owners have less than a 0 chance of going to the track or making a change to their cars.

Now, we do represent the most enthusiastic owners but from a business standpoint it is going to take one hell of an optimist to develop parts for this group unless they see the really big picture.

Did you say waiver? I eat those for lunch. Sign anything you want it doesn't protect anyone or mean anything any more.

jrcart

It was not Rob I got the e-mail message from, unless he has an alias, although he did make a similar comment on the open forum, however I knew it was more of a tongue and cheek comment. I did not take offense to either comment, but the e-mail message did make me chuckle a bit.

LZH

Well guys, since it's pretty clear that AMG is not going to step up to the plate on this one, I've been discussing options with Powerchip. Currently, they do not have the ability to mimic the throttle bliping software in the Speedshift + from most 2009 models.
However, they think that there might be a way do it by taking the stock program from a 2009 CLS63 and applying it to a 2007 or 2008 CLS63. This would be done via the OBDII port and would involve changing VIN numbers on the ME9 control unit
Problem is, it's hard to find someone willing to let us use their 2009 CLS63 ECU. So, if anyone has an '09 CLS63, or has a friend with one who might be wlling to let us use their ECU for a week or so, we just might be able to make this happen. In theory, and with Powerchips ability to code the stock control unit to any VIN, this should work. We would probably at some point need the actualy cars, but for now, just being able to work with the '09 CLS63 ECU would be a great starting point.

Per my conversation with the guys at Powerchip, this is how it would go:

1. Send the engine ecu from a 2009 cls63 that has a video of the
throttle blipping actually working on a stock car

2. An owner of a 2007/8 cls63 lends us a car in socal for a day to
read the ecu, goes away for a week, then lends us the car for a full
week to code ecu's

3. We then see if we can turn on blipping on the early ecu

This would not only benefit just CLK63 Black Series owners, but anyone who has a 63 vehicle that does not have the Speedshift + software. If Powerchip can make this work for our cars, it would be plug and play for every other 63 owner. Although this is a longshot, I feel that it would be a great mod for those with the regular Speedshift software. Lets put our heads together and make this happen !!!

EDIT - If there is someone interested in loaning us their ECU but they are worried about it being damaged or corrupted in any way, I would personally buy them a new ECU from their local dealer just to put their mind at ease.

DFW01E55

That's good of you LZH, but it might be less risk to all involved if the interested parties pitched in $100 each and then had a CLS owner buy a new ECU for testing. Then any disaster that occurs during programming is of no risk to the owner. Additionally those that pony up would get a $200 discount (or tbd) when they order the final product.

Does your effort here finally put a bullet through the idea that MHP could do this?

nielsll

I may be really ignorant here, but what do you feel you can gain by adding this throttle blip to down shifts? The Black has a torque convertor doesn't it?

nielsll

I think a better problem would be to change to the dual clutch trans of the newer cars. Then the blip makes sense.

LZH

Not sure what you mean by "better problem"...perhaps you meant better solution ?? And while putting the MCT into the CLK Black Series would be cool, it would hardly be cost effective. My guess is that after sourcing the MCT doing the all the fab work to make it fit, plus the labor...you could almost buy a used BS. Have you even driven the Black Series ?? Although it is still a torque converted auto transmission, it is the best auto box I have ever driven with lightening fast upshifts that pin you to your seat.

Thanks for your suggestions

LZH

Those are all good ideas that could be an option for anyone willing to help. I'm sure the members here who have shown interest would be willing to chip in to buy a stock ECU for testing. I guess we can cross that bridge when we get to it - thanks for the suggestions

Regarding MHP...I'd rather not even go into it. When I drove Jim's car it was not there but then again who the hell knows what tune he was running that day at Willow...However, Jim did tell me that previous versions of his MHP tune DID HAVE the blip. Take that FWIW....