new M3 vs CLK BS
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
It's been asked what the BS was designed to compete against, I asked Mario Spitzner at AMG that exact question (he's the director of sales and marketing for AMG) it isn't the M3, it's the GT3 Porsche.
Jimmy
Jimmy
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From: WA
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
This is my favorite site for lap times. It lists several popular test tracks. The link is for the 'Ring configuration that most people refer to:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
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LET C32 2002
You all make me lmao
M3 is a totally different class how are we comparing it to any Black series? Anyone can mod a car to best any car but factory to factory build well two totally different classes.
New M3 competes against the C63,RS4 as per their cateragory suggests right
The new M3 is a fabulous car but lets not get outside the box here
The OP asked what would we suggest and funny cause not everyone owns either the BS or new M3 but we sure can say our inputs right? For the price of 1 BS new you get 2 M3s new....its common sense to say BS I would...the M3 would depreciate way more then the BS will so my suggestion is BS but the new M3 is hot but I prefer the C63 over the new M3 and modifying it will make it as good or better on streets or Roadcourse.
BTW if the OP isn't gonna track it why would he want an M3? For looks? The BS has it better in appearance also...
M3 is a totally different class how are we comparing it to any Black series? Anyone can mod a car to best any car but factory to factory build well two totally different classes.
New M3 competes against the C63,RS4 as per their cateragory suggests right
The new M3 is a fabulous car but lets not get outside the box here
The OP asked what would we suggest and funny cause not everyone owns either the BS or new M3 but we sure can say our inputs right? For the price of 1 BS new you get 2 M3s new....its common sense to say BS I would...the M3 would depreciate way more then the BS will so my suggestion is BS but the new M3 is hot but I prefer the C63 over the new M3 and modifying it will make it as good or better on streets or Roadcourse.
BTW if the OP isn't gonna track it why would he want an M3? For looks? The BS has it better in appearance also...
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LET C32 2002
This is my favorite site for lap times. It lists several popular test tracks. The link is for the 'Ring configuration that most people refer to:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
1. Buy an M3 and spend the extra $$$ to modify it to best a BS
2.Buy a BS and be done with it....
The E46 M3 CSL was alot closer but that version was much more limited right?
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
Unless I read wrong we are talking about 15 seconds faster for the BS compare to the E92 M3...so
1. Buy an M3 and spend the extra $$$ to modify it to best a BS
2.Buy a BS and be done with it....
The E46 M3 CSL was alot closer but that version was much more limited right?
1. Buy an M3 and spend the extra $$$ to modify it to best a BS
2.Buy a BS and be done with it....
The E46 M3 CSL was alot closer but that version was much more limited right?
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CLK63 Black Series
Chip, some of those by you so called jokers have taken their car out to the track and talk about first hand experience. Those jokers include, and I apologize if I forgot someone: Jrcart, LZH, Jim Brady, Alexander Stemer and myself. Have you ever taken your car out to a track, and I'm talking about a road course, not drag strip? Or are you just quoting some numbers from whatever magazine? I saw that you posted once how fast your GT-R does 0-100 mph. I guess that was in a straight line, and no offense, doesn't take more than a right foot. Since you are such a Nordschleife aficionado, go there and find out for yourself how a first hand experience feels. No need to bring any of your cars, just rent one. As I recall, the OP just asked a simple question about the two cars comparing to one another and NOT specifically what track times they are laying down. I think he can do that himself by surfing the internet or buying one of those all so important magazines. I gave him my opinion based on my BS and M6, since I can drive them back to back. Never once in all of my posts have I brought up price! Freedom of choice, regardless of price. At the end, it counts which one makes YOU most happy, not because it's written somewhere by someone.
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
What else would he say? Hey we're designing a $138k car to beat up on a $70k car? He's a marketing guy.
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
You all make me lmao
M3 is a totally different class how are we comparing it to any Black series? Anyone can mod a car to best any car but factory to factory build well two totally different classes.
New M3 competes against the C63,RS4 as per their cateragory suggests right
The new M3 is a fabulous car but lets not get outside the box here
The OP asked what would we suggest and funny cause not everyone owns either the BS or new M3 but we sure can say our inputs right? For the price of 1 BS new you get 2 M3s new....its common sense to say BS I would...the M3 would depreciate way more then the BS will so my suggestion is BS but the new M3 is hot but I prefer the C63 over the new M3 and modifying it will make it as good or better on streets or Roadcourse.
BTW if the OP isn't gonna track it why would he want an M3? For looks? The BS has it better in appearance also...
M3 is a totally different class how are we comparing it to any Black series? Anyone can mod a car to best any car but factory to factory build well two totally different classes.
New M3 competes against the C63,RS4 as per their cateragory suggests right
The new M3 is a fabulous car but lets not get outside the box here
The OP asked what would we suggest and funny cause not everyone owns either the BS or new M3 but we sure can say our inputs right? For the price of 1 BS new you get 2 M3s new....its common sense to say BS I would...the M3 would depreciate way more then the BS will so my suggestion is BS but the new M3 is hot but I prefer the C63 over the new M3 and modifying it will make it as good or better on streets or Roadcourse.
BTW if the OP isn't gonna track it why would he want an M3? For looks? The BS has it better in appearance also...
Your point, and LZH's, about modding is taken but I stand by that it is very minor and only brake lines and pads. Now LZH, before berating me, I am aware the adjustable suspension on the BS is still a separating factor. However, unless running an endurance race I don't think you'll find many M3s overheating at track days.
C32used, to answer you about the CSL, that was a car producing only 355bhp. I was lucky enough to own one when based in W europe but dodged the MASSIVE depreciation they had by selling privately and early. The car was good but not as different from the standard M3 as BMW would like to have you believe ( i have not driven a BS so cannot compare with stock Euro CLK 63). It came with semi-click Cup tires, put them on the E92 M3 and watch it turn in a blistering lap. Tires are so often forgotten.
-Rob
Last edited by transferred; Feb 17, 2009 at 04:45 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
Chip, some of those by you so called jokers have taken their car out to the track and talk about first hand experience. Those jokers include, and I apologize if I forgot someone: Jrcart, LZH, Jim Brady, Alexander Stemer and myself. Have you ever taken your car out to a track, and I'm talking about a road course, not drag strip? Or are you just quoting some numbers from whatever magazine? I saw that you posted once how fast your GT-R does 0-100 mph. I guess that was in a straight line, and no offense, doesn't take more than a right foot. Since you are such a Nordschleife aficionado, go there and find out for yourself how a first hand experience feels. No need to bring any of your cars, just rent one. As I recall, the OP just asked a simple question about the two cars comparing to one another and NOT specifically what track times they are laying down. I think he can do that himself by surfing the internet or buying one of those all so important magazines. I gave him my opinion based on my BS and M6, since I can drive them back to back. Never once in all of my posts have I brought up price! Freedom of choice, regardless of price. At the end, it counts which one makes YOU most happy, not because it's written somewhere by someone.
I have limited track experience. I don't claim to be a great driver but I certainly have enough experience both practical and attained through reading to judge a vehicle.
Throwing out your track prowess doesn't change any fact about a car. Either the car is better, close to the same, or inferior to one youre comparing it to.
If you want to pound your chest and argue you can drive a vehicle around a track better than me I'll just say that is great and congratulate you. I really couldn't care less.
I'm debating about the car, not the driver.
Last edited by chiphomme; Feb 17, 2009 at 04:49 PM.
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Chip, some of those by you so called jokers have taken their car out to the track and talk about first hand experience. Those jokers include, and I apologize if I forgot someone: Jrcart, LZH, Jim Brady, Alexander Stemer and myself. Have you ever taken your car out to a track, and I'm talking about a road course, not drag strip? Or are you just quoting some numbers from whatever magazine? I saw that you posted once how fast your GT-R does 0-100 mph. I guess that was in a straight line, and no offense, doesn't take more than a right foot. Since you are such a Nordschleife aficionado, go there and find out for yourself how a first hand experience feels. No need to bring any of your cars, just rent one. As I recall, the OP just asked a simple question about the two cars comparing to one another and NOT specifically what track times they are laying down. I think he can do that himself by surfing the internet or buying one of those all so important magazines. I gave him my opinion based on my BS and M6, since I can drive them back to back. Never once in all of my posts have I brought up price! Freedom of choice, regardless of price. At the end, it counts which one makes YOU most happy, not because it's written somewhere by someone.
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CLK63 Black Series
This is pure conjecture and also begs the question of long term vs short term and dollar amount vs % of MSRP.
Your point, and LZH's, about modding is taken but I stand by that it is very minor and only brake lines and pads. Now LZH, before berating me, I am aware the adjustable suspension on the BS is still a separating factor. However, unless running an endurance race I don't think you'll find many M3s overheating at track days.
C32used, to answer you about the CSL, that was a car producing only 355bhp. I was lucky enough to own one when based in W europe but dodged the MASSIVE depreciation they had by selling privately and early. The car was good but not as different from the standard M3 as BMW would like to have you believe ( i have not driven a BS so cannot compare with stock Euro CLK 63). It came with semi-click Cup tires, put them on the E92 M3 and watch it turn in a blistering lap. Tires are so often forgotten.
-Rob
Your point, and LZH's, about modding is taken but I stand by that it is very minor and only brake lines and pads. Now LZH, before berating me, I am aware the adjustable suspension on the BS is still a separating factor. However, unless running an endurance race I don't think you'll find many M3s overheating at track days.
C32used, to answer you about the CSL, that was a car producing only 355bhp. I was lucky enough to own one when based in W europe but dodged the MASSIVE depreciation they had by selling privately and early. The car was good but not as different from the standard M3 as BMW would like to have you believe ( i have not driven a BS so cannot compare with stock Euro CLK 63). It came with semi-click Cup tires, put them on the E92 M3 and watch it turn in a blistering lap. Tires are so often forgotten.
-Rob
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
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CLK63 Black Series
I have limited track experience. I don't claim to be a great driver but I certainly have enough experience both practical and attained through reading to judge a vehicle.
Throwing out your track prowess doesn't change any fact about a car. Either the car is better, close to the same, or inferior to one youre comparing it to.
If you want to pound your chest and argue you can drive a vehicle around a track better than me I'll just say that is great and congratulate you. I really couldn't care less.
I'm debating about the car, not the driver.
Throwing out your track prowess doesn't change any fact about a car. Either the car is better, close to the same, or inferior to one youre comparing it to.
If you want to pound your chest and argue you can drive a vehicle around a track better than me I'll just say that is great and congratulate you. I really couldn't care less.
I'm debating about the car, not the driver.
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
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CLK63 Black Series
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
Have you actually been following this debate? I quoted track times after others claimed the CLK63 would destroy the M3 on a track. The 'ring is used by nearly every major performance car company to test their vehicles. So it seemed like a good reference point for those that want compare performance.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
If you take away the meaningless "exclusivity" there are a bunch of vehicles that match up well, if not exceed the CLK63 in the performance/daily driveability category(and many are really exclusive too).
The M3 obviously, the GT-R, R8, any 997, Z06, ZR1, etc.
And frankly most of the cars I have listed are better DDs than the Black.
Your "has no competition" is silly. The CLK63 has plenty of competitors.
The M3 obviously, the GT-R, R8, any 997, Z06, ZR1, etc.
And frankly most of the cars I have listed are better DDs than the Black.
Your "has no competition" is silly. The CLK63 has plenty of competitors.
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From: Fargo, North Dakota
2012 Cayenne Turbo
Chip - You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Clearly you are have made up your mind on this topic and no amount of firsthand experience from other very knowledgeable members is going to change that. Personally, I really don't give a ***** because I've grown tired of all the idiotic arm chair bench racers around here. If you wanna base your opinions on magazine articles and videos, be my guest. I have driven every car you mention above except the GT-R. I have my own opinions based on fact and experience. Yours are based on pure speculation and numbers on paper and have ZERO real world relevance.
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CLK63 Black Series
. You seem to be the perfect guy to answer my question, since both of us had the same cars. I assume your M3 was SMG? The way I remember, my M3 shifted much quicker and harsher than the M6. I know it's now the SMG2, but when I selected the next gear up on my M3, it was like bang and that gear was in. In order to make it smoother, you had to lift slightly. Maybe it's too long ago, but the M6 takes it's sweet time in comparison to change gears and there is no more need to lift. Could be just me, but was curious if you had the same experience?
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
I didn't see the M3 or the M6 in your sig line. Are you telling me that you currently own the E92 M3 ? Which M3 do you/have you own/owned ??
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From: L.A., CA
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As long as you don't bring up someones Nordschleife lap times, it sure does .
You seem to be the perfect guy to answer my question, since both of us had the same cars. I assume your M3 was SMG? The way I remember, my M3 shifted much quicker and harsher than the M6. I know it's now the SMG2, but when I selected the next gear up on my M3, it was like bang and that gear was in. In order to make it smoother, you had to lift slightly. Maybe it's too long ago, but the M6 takes it's sweet time in comparison to change gears and there is no more need to lift. Could be just me, but was curious if you had the same experience?
. You seem to be the perfect guy to answer my question, since both of us had the same cars. I assume your M3 was SMG? The way I remember, my M3 shifted much quicker and harsher than the M6. I know it's now the SMG2, but when I selected the next gear up on my M3, it was like bang and that gear was in. In order to make it smoother, you had to lift slightly. Maybe it's too long ago, but the M6 takes it's sweet time in comparison to change gears and there is no more need to lift. Could be just me, but was curious if you had the same experience?
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Too bad the Willow event got cancelled, one of my friends/employees that was supposed to make the trip with me has a cousin who lives in Newport Beach with a bone stock E92 M3 coupe and he agreed to take it to Willow on Thursday and let a couple of us give it a good flogging on the track in a head-to-head race with Luke's showroom stock Black Series. I'm not sure if I will make it to the make-up date but he would be happy to join you guys in the future...he says just go easy on him, he has never been on a road course in his life and would enjoy you guys giving him some pointers.
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CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
I'd be more than happy to show him the way around Willow, Jim. Feel free to give him my contact info if you like and we can make it happen.
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CLK63 Black Series
I hear what you're saying here but at redline the shifts in S5 (I'd never use the slower settings or hapless auto mode) are pretty fast at WOT/redline. Best thing for smoother shifts is to lift your toes slightly on when shifting at less than full throttle. The shifts are brutal and instantaneous in S6 mode. Certainly not something to use on public roads when it's wet out.
