CLK BS 15" rotor
04-05-2009, 09:01 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
no problem...Its my pleasure to post up about my mercedes. I hope I can encourage people in some way/shape/form.
Jangy what is your problem, saying comments like all Black Series are crap, except for one points your finger at so many of us. I want to know what makes you so special to judge that.
Jangy what is your problem, saying comments like all Black Series are crap, except for one points your finger at so many of us. I want to know what makes you so special to judge that.
04-05-2009, 11:59 PM
#52
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 C63
Give me some demensions for the rotors, like diameter, and thickness and i can find you something. You will need someone to draw you up a set of hats and cut them on a cnc mill. I can help you with drawing up some hats on solid works but i need a mock up rotor from a cl65 to know all the measurements. let me know.
04-14-2009, 01:35 AM
#53
PREMIER SPONSOR
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow. Had to siph through a lot of "stuff" on this thread to get here.
Nice work on the car. Sick project. I have a spare M156 when you're ready
Regarding the rotors, bigger is not always better. Much like with KERS technology in F1 right now. What you make up in power, you could lose in weight. Assuming the same composition, a 15" rotor is heavier than a 14". Even if you do take advantage of more sweep with a greater annulus, which will probably require you to relocate the caliper, to me unsprung weight still takes my vote here. The other factor is weight of the object, or car in this case. Takes more energy to stop a heavier object so more braking can be good. But you can absolutely overpower the brakes on a car (varying piston size) if it doesn't need it much like you don't need 12-Piston 16" brakes on an Ariel Atom
With respect to the CLK63 BS 2-piece front rotor (similar to C63 PP, SL55 030, CLS63/E63), it's an odd size. They are not that heavy, but the problem with them is 1) since it's one part number L or R, they both vent the same way much like just about every other MB OE disc, 2) they're expensive. So if we can't get much more weight out of them for about same price or less, not sure there's much of a market.
Ok, you can get back to playing nice now...
.
Nice work on the car. Sick project. I have a spare M156 when you're ready
Regarding the rotors, bigger is not always better. Much like with KERS technology in F1 right now. What you make up in power, you could lose in weight. Assuming the same composition, a 15" rotor is heavier than a 14". Even if you do take advantage of more sweep with a greater annulus, which will probably require you to relocate the caliper, to me unsprung weight still takes my vote here. The other factor is weight of the object, or car in this case. Takes more energy to stop a heavier object so more braking can be good. But you can absolutely overpower the brakes on a car (varying piston size) if it doesn't need it much like you don't need 12-Piston 16" brakes on an Ariel Atom
With respect to the CLK63 BS 2-piece front rotor (similar to C63 PP, SL55 030, CLS63/E63), it's an odd size. They are not that heavy, but the problem with them is 1) since it's one part number L or R, they both vent the same way much like just about every other MB OE disc, 2) they're expensive. So if we can't get much more weight out of them for about same price or less, not sure there's much of a market.
Ok, you can get back to playing nice now...
.
04-14-2009, 01:45 AM
#54
PREMIER SPONSOR
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
04-15-2009, 09:05 PM
#55
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 C63
well written simon. Its been a cool project for sure. I'm sure i can never get the car to perform the way it should be anyways so the bigger brake i probably will never benefit from. As far as better braking i will never test it so god knows, but it theory of inertia it should work better. Plus it looks really cool to see the rotor fill a 19" wheel. Simon PM about that motor. Tell me a little more about it. thanks.
04-16-2009, 12:21 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Awesome project, my friend! Where are you in school at? Mechanical Engineering, I guess? I'm finishing my MSME at Georgia Tech right now.
With respect to the brakes, bigger surface area = more friction, and also further out means more torque, so good news for stopping fast! But how beneficial is it to go bigger on the rotor and not match it with larger area calipers? Shouldn't brake design take advantage of both torque (outside) and friction (overall stopping area)?
Bigger also means more weight, so you know there's the trade off. But the real problem here is not just weight. It's inertia. You know about parallel axis theorem and all, I'm sure...so the further out from the center of rotation you have mass, the more torque it requires to get it moving. Not just b/c it's heavier, but b/c the mass is concentrated further out from the center.
Big brakes? Stopping power? Handling? Max acceleration? Max top speed? Every single little performance item should be tailored toward your biggest goal(s) with the car. It's all a big trade-off. Sweet project tho man....and keep us posted!
My biggest question is where someone in engineering design classes gets the $$ and time to do all the work. I have to work to pay my bills and barely have time to keep up with my coursework!
With respect to the brakes, bigger surface area = more friction, and also further out means more torque, so good news for stopping fast! But how beneficial is it to go bigger on the rotor and not match it with larger area calipers? Shouldn't brake design take advantage of both torque (outside) and friction (overall stopping area)?
Bigger also means more weight, so you know there's the trade off. But the real problem here is not just weight. It's inertia. You know about parallel axis theorem and all, I'm sure...so the further out from the center of rotation you have mass, the more torque it requires to get it moving. Not just b/c it's heavier, but b/c the mass is concentrated further out from the center.
Big brakes? Stopping power? Handling? Max acceleration? Max top speed? Every single little performance item should be tailored toward your biggest goal(s) with the car. It's all a big trade-off. Sweet project tho man....and keep us posted!
My biggest question is where someone in engineering design classes gets the $$ and time to do all the work. I have to work to pay my bills and barely have time to keep up with my coursework!
04-16-2009, 01:04 PM
#57
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 C63
I'm actually majoring in manufacturing technologies mechanical engineering at cal state northridge. I got my pmp(project management professional) certificates a while back and I manage a decent sized construction company out here in the LA area. I would honestly say I would have been an engineer a while ago if I didn't work so much but it's a good tradeoff.
As for the brakes we can put it down on paper all day but the true way to find out how good it works is to test it physically. I'm glad there are so many smart opinions. Thanks for the compliments.
As for the brakes we can put it down on paper all day but the true way to find out how good it works is to test it physically. I'm glad there are so many smart opinions. Thanks for the compliments.
Last edited by TTAMG; 04-16-2009 at 01:09 PM.
04-16-2009, 08:15 PM
#58
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLK Black Series
friction v. surface area
I seem to remember hearing or reading somewhere (maybe in physics class back in the dark ages) that friction is independent of surface area. I know some high performance clutches have just three or four pucks. Am I crazy?
Awesome project, my friend! Where are you in school at? Mechanical Engineering, I guess? I'm finishing my MSME at Georgia Tech right now.
With respect to the brakes, bigger surface area = more friction, and also further out means more torque, so good news for stopping fast! But how beneficial is it to go bigger on the rotor and not match it with larger area calipers? Shouldn't brake design take advantage of both torque (outside) and friction (overall stopping area)?
Bigger also means more weight, so you know there's the trade off. But the real problem here is not just weight. It's inertia. You know about parallel axis theorem and all, I'm sure...so the further out from the center of rotation you have mass, the more torque it requires to get it moving. Not just b/c it's heavier, but b/c the mass is concentrated further out from the center.
Big brakes? Stopping power? Handling? Max acceleration? Max top speed? Every single little performance item should be tailored toward your biggest goal(s) with the car. It's all a big trade-off. Sweet project tho man....and keep us posted!
My biggest question is where someone in engineering design classes gets the $$ and time to do all the work. I have to work to pay my bills and barely have time to keep up with my coursework!
With respect to the brakes, bigger surface area = more friction, and also further out means more torque, so good news for stopping fast! But how beneficial is it to go bigger on the rotor and not match it with larger area calipers? Shouldn't brake design take advantage of both torque (outside) and friction (overall stopping area)?
Bigger also means more weight, so you know there's the trade off. But the real problem here is not just weight. It's inertia. You know about parallel axis theorem and all, I'm sure...so the further out from the center of rotation you have mass, the more torque it requires to get it moving. Not just b/c it's heavier, but b/c the mass is concentrated further out from the center.
Big brakes? Stopping power? Handling? Max acceleration? Max top speed? Every single little performance item should be tailored toward your biggest goal(s) with the car. It's all a big trade-off. Sweet project tho man....and keep us posted!
My biggest question is where someone in engineering design classes gets the $$ and time to do all the work. I have to work to pay my bills and barely have time to keep up with my coursework!
04-20-2009, 04:50 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
04-20-2009, 04:51 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think it's awesome to see the technical threads come out! It seems there are fewer here than other forums. But when they show up, they're always really interesting stuff. Keep us posted bro!
04-21-2009, 12:50 AM
#62
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 C63
LOL the brakes are some small tech on the car. I will post up very soon on the rest of the project. thanks for the positive feed back. Im glad to see people that have a technical background, and im glad to see they use it.
04-28-2009, 12:53 PM
#63
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Z06 twin turbo
WOW
You are one skilled person , and you are doing this as a project for school .
A: What a cool project !
B: Great craftsmanship
C: Great attention to detail
I commend you on your work ! Ive seen some very interesting work on MBWORLD, Like the 1000 hp v12 on the E55 section ..
Good job and good luck on your project
You are one skilled person , and you are doing this as a project for school . A: What a cool project !
B: Great craftsmanship
C: Great attention to detail
I commend you on your work ! Ive seen some very interesting work on MBWORLD, Like the 1000 hp v12 on the E55 section ..
Good job and good luck on your project
