Traction after tune for 4matic vs RWD
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From: AL
13 CLS5504, 13 RX350, 13 Yukon
Traction after tune for 4matic vs RWD
I have been searching the forum but can not find any info regarding this. I am on the hunt for a W218 CLS550. I live in the deep south so 4matic isn't necessary except for all the rain we get. When I get the CLS I plan on getting a tune and possibly some other mods. Will I see a noticeable difference in traction if I get the RWD model? I have a CTS-V now and have all kinds of traction problems. Its been a hard search finding all the options I want in the 4matic but will continue my search if it truly will be better. Any input would be appreciated.
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2012 CLS550 4Matic
Hi nsatibl,
From online posts, I see many comments regarding poor traction with RWD and the latest Bi-turbo engines (M278) in the CLS, E and E-Coupe. In addition, I firmly believe traction will further be compromised with an ECU tune (unless you opt for an aftermarket 'Limited Slip Differential').
Personally, I have a 2012 CLS550 4Matic with an awesome RENNtech tune (dyno results here). In the nice weather, I have 19" summer tires... in our snowy New England winters, I've used the stock 18" all-season tires. I've never experienced any traction problems in the rain. In the snow, itz very stable and predictable, unless I'm 'playing'... and that is with over 600 lb/ft of torque. But don't forget, you can NOT beat the laws of physics... and tires are a huge factor in traction too.
I love my 4Matic... and the tune/exhaust (resonator delete) still brings a smile to my face.
Hope this helpz,
427
From online posts, I see many comments regarding poor traction with RWD and the latest Bi-turbo engines (M278) in the CLS, E and E-Coupe. In addition, I firmly believe traction will further be compromised with an ECU tune (unless you opt for an aftermarket 'Limited Slip Differential').
Personally, I have a 2012 CLS550 4Matic with an awesome RENNtech tune (dyno results here). In the nice weather, I have 19" summer tires... in our snowy New England winters, I've used the stock 18" all-season tires. I've never experienced any traction problems in the rain. In the snow, itz very stable and predictable, unless I'm 'playing'... and that is with over 600 lb/ft of torque. But don't forget, you can NOT beat the laws of physics... and tires are a huge factor in traction too.
I love my 4Matic... and the tune/exhaust (resonator delete) still brings a smile to my face.
Hope this helpz,
427
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: AL
13 CLS5504, 13 RX350, 13 Yukon
Hi nsatibl,
From online posts, I see many comments regarding poor traction with RWD and the latest Bi-turbo engines (M278) in the CLS, E and E-Coupe. In addition, I firmly believe traction will further be compromised with an ECU tune (unless you opt for an aftermarket 'Limited Slip Differential').
Personally, I have a 2012 CLS550 4Matic with an awesome RENNtech tune (dyno results here). In the nice weather, I have 19" summer tires... in our snowy New England winters, I've used the stock 18" all-season tires. I've never experienced any traction problems in the rain. In the snow, itz very stable and predictable, unless I'm 'playing'... and that is with over 600 lb/ft of torque. But don't forget, you can NOT beat the laws of physics... and tires are a huge factor in traction too.
I love my 4Matic... and the tune/exhaust (resonator delete) still brings a smile to my face.
Hope this helpz,
427
From online posts, I see many comments regarding poor traction with RWD and the latest Bi-turbo engines (M278) in the CLS, E and E-Coupe. In addition, I firmly believe traction will further be compromised with an ECU tune (unless you opt for an aftermarket 'Limited Slip Differential').
Personally, I have a 2012 CLS550 4Matic with an awesome RENNtech tune (dyno results here). In the nice weather, I have 19" summer tires... in our snowy New England winters, I've used the stock 18" all-season tires. I've never experienced any traction problems in the rain. In the snow, itz very stable and predictable, unless I'm 'playing'... and that is with over 600 lb/ft of torque. But don't forget, you can NOT beat the laws of physics... and tires are a huge factor in traction too.
I love my 4Matic... and the tune/exhaust (resonator delete) still brings a smile to my face.
Hope this helpz,
427
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 357
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E63 S AMG, CLS550 4matic, C63 Ed 507, Volvo XC90 T8s
With all respect to 427 and his Renntech CLS, I managed to spin my rear wheels on my 2014 4matic on a wet NJ road even when it was 50 degrees F and raining last fall. Only for a second before traction control kicked in though. Was running 18 inch AMG rims with OEM Conti Pro Contact all seasons with only about 3000 miles of wear. Could have been different if I was using better tires I guess.
I don't have a tuned ECU. 100% stock.
Guess it would have been worse with a RWD car though ....
I don't have a tuned ECU. 100% stock.
Guess it would have been worse with a RWD car though ....
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2012 CLS550 4Matic
Fair enough comment and assessment... perhaps I was a tad overzealous in my praise of 4Matic. Since 'nsatibl' currently drives a CTS-V, I'll somewhat equate that to the tuned RWD Corvettes and XLR I've driven year round in the Northeast (yes, I'm crazy). In comparison, the 4Matic is night and day different for traction in all weather conditions. Jumping into traffic on a cold/wet day may have a slight moment of slip/hesitation, but the 4Matic quickly grabs with confidence... compared to any RWD vehicle I've owned. Just sharing my experience...
With all respect to 427 and his Renntech CLS, I managed to spin my rear wheels on my 2014 4matic on a wet NJ road even when it was 50 degrees F and raining last fall. Only for a second before traction control kicked in though. Was running 18 inch AMG rims with OEM Conti Pro Contact all seasons with only about 3000 miles of wear. Could have been different if I was using better tires I guess.
I don't have a tuned ECU. 100% stock.
Guess it would have been worse with a RWD car though ....
I don't have a tuned ECU. 100% stock.
Guess it would have been worse with a RWD car though ....
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Joined: Nov 2012
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E63 S AMG, CLS550 4matic, C63 Ed 507, Volvo XC90 T8s
Fair enough comment and assessment... perhaps I was a tad overzealous in my praise of 4Matic. Since 'nsatibl' currently drives a CTS-V, I'll somewhat equate that to the tuned RWD Corvettes and XLR I've driven year round in the Northeast (yes, I'm crazy). In comparison, the 4Matic is night and day different for traction in all weather conditions. Jumping into traffic on a cold/wet day may have a slight moment of slip/hesitation, but the 4Matic quickly grabs with confidence... compared to any RWD vehicle I've owned. Just sharing my experience...
I know what driving RWD is like in the snow. Was caught in one of the rare southeastern snow storms this winter. All season Conti DWS on a RWD Lexus convertible. Made it most of the way home but had to abandon half a mile from where I was staying in Marietta GA cos the 290 hp 310 lbft Lexus could not make it up a hill with some accumulation. All the weight of the V8 on the front and all the thrust to the rear is a losing combo on a snowy slope. The 4matic Benz would have made it all the way home with no trouble.
And yes, saw lots of Civics and Corollas that made it cos they were FWD.
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'17 C63S Estate (S205) / '14 CLS 550 SB (X218) / '17 E220d (S213)
When reading lines like that, I thank our government for the rule that everybody has to be on winter tires (!) when driving in snow. If one does not obey that law, one has to face tickets and - which is even more important - the total lack of insurance! So if one crashes, the insurance will simple be free from its debt!
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2012 CLS550 4Matic
I know what driving RWD is like in the snow. Was caught in one of the rare southeastern snow storms this winter. All season Conti DWS on a RWD Lexus convertible. Made it most of the way home but had to abandon half a mile from where I was staying in Marietta GA cos the 290 hp 310 lbft Lexus could not make it up a hill with some accumulation. All the weight of the V8 on the front and all the thrust to the rear is a losing combo on a snowy slope. The 4matic Benz would have made it all the way home with no trouble.
And yes, saw lots of Civics and Corollas that made it cos they were FWD.
And yes, saw lots of Civics and Corollas that made it cos they were FWD.
These videos are enlightening to watch... testing winter tires with FWD ~vs~ summer/all-season tires on an AWD vehicle.
I hope this is not getting off-track from the original post... I simply recommend AWD/4Matic with proper tires for the weather and driving conditions.
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2012 CLS550 4Matic
When reading lines like that, I thank our government for the rule that everybody has to be on winter tires (!) when driving in snow. If one does not obey that law, one has to face tickets and - which is even more important - the total lack of insurance! So if one crashes, the insurance will simple be free from its debt!
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E63 S AMG, CLS550 4matic, C63 Ed 507, Volvo XC90 T8s
You guys are right and I am real believer about the importance of winter tires. The 4matic Benz is riding on Blizzaks now and it is a beast in the snow. In the south of the country where I got caught in the storm, most people rarely see snow. Most nice cars ride on high performance summer tires. E.g. when I abandoned my convertible, the abandoned car behind me was an Alpina B7 and the car in front of me was a new 535i. Summer tires .... At least I had Conti DWS on my convertible which were the best all seasons supposedly for snow. Was good enough for 7/8 of the journey in the storm but just not good enough on that slope on that day.
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'17 C63S Estate (S205) / '14 CLS 550 SB (X218) / '17 E220d (S213)
I do own a stock CLS 550 Shooting Brake and a E 550 4MATIC. Both with the well known M278 BiTurbo engine. Feel free to check my speedometer-shots in my signature.
As I do not have a tune on neither car, I can not comment on your question directly. However - in everyday driving, the E 550 is a lot quicker of the line. So at the traffic light I am just flooring it and it launches without a chirp! This is also true in wet conditions - during normal driving, one does not even notice, if the surface is slippery!
On the other hand the CLS. RWD. This car is quicker from a roll. It is, on the other hand, very difficult to launch. Rain? Just get used to the flashing ESP-Light in front of you. You have to do a quick launch and do a 90° turn at the same time? Well, make sure, you have enough room to do so...as things will go very slow due to the working Traction Control.
Which one is more fun to drive? The CLS. A lot less understeer. A 4MATIC car will heavily understeer (except AMG) under load! This is due to the 45% front / 55% rear power distribution - and that kills a lot of fun for me! As a daily driver, the 4MATIC is although without question the way faster combination (as long as you keep speeds below 100mph - beyond that the additional drivetrain losses really slow you down, compared to the rwd).
As I do not have a tune on neither car, I can not comment on your question directly. However - in everyday driving, the E 550 is a lot quicker of the line. So at the traffic light I am just flooring it and it launches without a chirp! This is also true in wet conditions - during normal driving, one does not even notice, if the surface is slippery!
On the other hand the CLS. RWD. This car is quicker from a roll. It is, on the other hand, very difficult to launch. Rain? Just get used to the flashing ESP-Light in front of you. You have to do a quick launch and do a 90° turn at the same time? Well, make sure, you have enough room to do so...as things will go very slow due to the working Traction Control.
Which one is more fun to drive? The CLS. A lot less understeer. A 4MATIC car will heavily understeer (except AMG) under load! This is due to the 45% front / 55% rear power distribution - and that kills a lot of fun for me! As a daily driver, the 4MATIC is although without question the way faster combination (as long as you keep speeds below 100mph - beyond that the additional drivetrain losses really slow you down, compared to the rwd).
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E63 S AMG, CLS550 4matic, C63 Ed 507, Volvo XC90 T8s
Really useful info thanks. MBUSA shows slightly slower 0-60 times for the normal 4matic CLS vs RWD CLS. But other manufacturers like Porsche show faster times for their AWD offering than RWD( eg Panamera )
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'17 C63S Estate (S205) / '14 CLS 550 SB (X218) / '17 E220d (S213)
That is kind of funny, as Mercedes Germany states the following figures:
0-62mph (0-100km/h)
E500: 4.9s
E500 4MATIC: 4.8s
Note: The E550 is called E500 in Germany.
But please keep in mind, that with the RWD car one will have a hard time to get those results, while in the AWD car even a monkey could floor it and reproduce the manufacture figures... In my opinion: If you want to be quick from a stop - in every driving condition - choose the 4MATIC. If you like spirited driving, think about the RWD.
0-62mph (0-100km/h)
E500: 4.9s
E500 4MATIC: 4.8s
Note: The E550 is called E500 in Germany.
But please keep in mind, that with the RWD car one will have a hard time to get those results, while in the AWD car even a monkey could floor it and reproduce the manufacture figures... In my opinion: If you want to be quick from a stop - in every driving condition - choose the 4MATIC. If you like spirited driving, think about the RWD.
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'17 C63S Estate (S205) / '14 CLS 550 SB (X218) / '17 E220d (S213)
Last night, I just did a quick run against my friends 2009 E550 (W211). From 100 to 155 he is a bit faster as mentioned before. However, we tried it several times from a stop and I pulled him by at least two car length every single time...so if you are looking for a good street racer, buy the 4MATIC. Even if the RWD would be better in the hands of a professional driver - for an average driver like me AWD is a lot easier to launch and therefore consistent.
