KnappAttack

OK guys. I've put 3000 miles on my new to me 2014 CLS 550 4-Matic. It has new brakes on it when I bought it (41,000 miles) and was fine on the test drive with no shudder. Now 3000 miles later, I'm going to need to do something. Never have had brake shudder on any of my Audis, not sure why I'm reading so much about it now on the Mercedes forums. I'm guessing the Benz OEM pads are causing this with buildup on the discs.

I've tried "bedding in" twice now since I have first noticed the shudder rearing its ugly head. It's actually gotten worse with time. I was hoping it would get better with use, but its getting worse. It seems like the pads are OEM MB as they say Merceds Benz on the pads. The fronts are dusting so bad its crazy. The wheels refuse to stay clean up front, so I need to replace those pads with Ceramics anyway. Back seems fine with dust crazy enough.

I'm thinking about just replacing all the pads with Ceramics and power sanding off the discs to get back to back to square one, and ridding the discs of the pad material buildup causing the shudder and thickness variances on the disc. However I'm also contemplating just replacing the discs as well.

Do ceramic pads fix this awful shudder once and for all on the Benz I seem to see so many complaints on?

hyperion667

The shuddering sounds like a pain, I too and feeling some slight shuddering from the front end...just slightly and only during the first couple of times per drive, then it goes away.
I didn't realize there are different pads available for CLS. Perhaps there are for 2014 models? I'm curious to see what other members say in this regard as you 're quite right about the obnoxious amount of brake dust these cars produce.
Good luck and sorry this post is no help.

OBP

Been there done that. I refuse to use OEM MB pads and rotors anymore. Very prone to disk thickness variation due to deposits. I buy after market pads and rotors as much as possible. I've used R1 Concepts with reasonable success though for the CLS 550, Brembo rotors up front were necessary.

ChrisHimself

I'm going to catch flak for this but OEM-style compounds are like stopping your car with the most abrasive and dusty cheetos known to man. They're safe and generate great braking torque in all weather conditions sure but the pad abrades the rotor super fast and the pad itself breaks up and distributes itself all over the bumper, wheels, and gets stuck in the holes somethin fierce.

Switch to ceramic pads while everything is new. It's actually also quite possible to warp new rotors if they're not exactly the high carbon or at the minimum the G3000 stuff. I also don't recommend transferring new pads onto an old rotor, the texture is sorta mated to something completely different whereas ceramic pads themselves don't wear and they're super easy on the pads.

It's like how sandpaper is super abraisive but it in itself can be easily abraded too since it's really hard sharp particles bonded to paper, it's wads of metal seriously copper or iron held together witih carbon. Ceramic pads are high density laminates with high temp epoxy, some carbon, sometimes kevlar. The pads do stay particularly hot though, but they don't suffer brake fake the same way regular pads do due to the density. They're actually louder but you can't hear ceramic because the frequency is too high for us to hear. Theres an old myth that due to the increased hardness the pads are harder on the rotors but the pads are flat, the original pads are like trying to ice skate on broken glass you can see the physical pieces of metal protruding them them at all times. Thats why you get the scoring, and then on drilled rotors you get the scoring + the cool wavy texture as the rotors thin down.

KnappAttack

I've got a couple thoughts on how to remedy this shudder.

1. Buying Dynamic Friction 5000 Euro pads front and back from RockAuto and sanding my discs down to bare metal taking off the pad buildup thats on them now.
2. Buying a complete PowerStop Ceramic pad and coated disc kit from RockAuto and just replacing everything at once, which is a whole lot more money to replace the discs as well.

The problem is the discs on the car are true and were new 3000 miles ago, I'm sure its just the buildup and thickness variation causing the shudder from the new stock pads. And the dust on the front wheels is downright horrible anyway.

ChrisHimself

if you think the discs are good, just replace the pads with plans to replace the discs later if they start building up a lip. I'll sign off on it if they're only 3k miles old. I've done 20k on my powerstop drilled/slotted rotors on the E550 with the Z23 pads and theres still no discernable wear, the friggin machining marks are still there and I basically race the thing the entire time I'm driving it. The ceramic stuff is a cheat code for infinite brakes and if theres one gospel I want to spread its that one

BBS63

I am in the same boat. This is the only car I have ever owned that has gone thru 3 sets of rotors and pads in 20k miles. I am a mechanic and have tried everything FCP has to offer. At my wits end as to what to try next. brembo, zimmerman, OEM mercedes rotors. I am the only one that drives this car as it is my daily, I am not hard on the brakes and most of my miles are hwy miles.
Everything on the front end suspension is fine. Always torqued caliper bolts, wheel etc. One thing I did find is that a you tuber said you have to change the Caliper bolts every time you do the rotors, I have not.
I honeslty do not know what brand to try. FCP Euro will warranty the part no problem, but I have to buy the same brand as last time.
Eveyrthing is stock on the vehicle, I am 2nd owner and the guy before me kept it in mint shape.
I feel stupid with this car, after turning wrenches for many years and always working on my own cars this car has me stumped, which is a shame as I love it.

End rant, thank you for listening.

BBS63

Just checked out R1 concepts, might give them a try. They are selling the non cross drilled rotors for front which might be a reason we all get shuderr. Its possble the holes or some of them get filled up with the brake pad material and some do not which is not their purpose and the pad material gets wedged in and makes the rotor not balanced and then we apply heat over time and we have warped rotors. I dunno. Thinking out loud.
Might give these a try the price is not bad for pads, rotors and hardware kit for $365.

Thanks

KnappAttack

I was looking at FPC Euro at the TRW ceramic pads, but they are out of stock on the ceramic rears. RockAuto has great pricing on parts and I typically buy from them, much cheaper really, I suppose they would be because they don't have the lifetime warranty, seems you could buy twice for the money you save with RockAuto, and their selection on brakes is more substantial.

My wife and I went for a drive today and the shudder is gnawing at me something fierce! I tried bedding-in the brakes again hard for the third time and it's still shuddering, never seen anything like it. I beat the heel to of it to the point the front rotors are almost blue. I'm beginning to think its the back brakes causing most of the issue, they don't seem to be blue at all, however I can still feel it in the steering wheel a bit too. It was so smooth on the test drive 3000 miles ago with all new parts, and I dont sit at lights at a full stop either, I'm always rolling some....

I'm beginning to think I should just get the whole PowerStop Ceramic kit, pads and rotors and be done with it. I've had good success with them on past Audis with no dust to boot, I never had judder issues even on stock Audi brakes however, but the brake dust was still killer on the stock pads. Can't believe I'm having issues with a Benz. I thought these were supposed to be a top line automobile..... I'm feeling a bit apprehensive on it at the moment with the Benz. I'm sure once I get the brakes squared away I'll be in a much better position to see how I like it and if I want to keep it over the Audis, but I'm really not feeling it right at the moment. Fingers crossed I don't end up hating it.

BBS63

Thanks for the Power Source info, will have to go that route and hopefully I can get more miles from them compared to every other brand I have gone thru. And less brake dust, that is a bonus.

chassis

Shudder means something is not right.

Maybe the brakes weren't as “new” as thought when the car was purchased.

Replace pads and rotors and tires. If still shudder then look at wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rods and spring/shock upper and lower mounts. Front suspension vibration can be a rabbit hole so eliminate the obvious first - pads and rotors. Then tires. Then wheels.

ChrisHimself

you can use the drilled ones if you'd like, they're not the reason for the shudder, it's just how the pads are sometimes

TRW/Akebono/Centric/Bosch/Brembo/DFC pads I have installed in pretty much every single model of Mercedes now. DFC is a lifesaver for those BMW riveted rotors since they make their own version and/or a 1pc retrofit. Powerstop I've used on almost every single car I've owned personally. You're gonna be ok. Well you bought a used car with unknown service history, I wouldn't blame Mercedes on this one if we zoom out on the problem here. Once you get some fresh parts that you picked out and it fixes the problem, you'll have a lot more satisfaction with the car! My S550 was the same way, I pretty much bought it with roached wavy rotors that were below minimum thickness printed on the edge of the rotor. Drove awfully, I did the Z23 kit on it which has the OEM style rotors, and the Z23 carbon ceramic pads and it's used as a rental for the shop and eats 300 miles a week and the customers love it.

Both of you guys feel free to PM me, I use the locally available parts supply via Worldpac for automotive shops like Wagner, but I've also cleaned out the RockAuto catalog of parts brands myself too (it's still cheaper than parts at cost locally) so you don't have to feel like youre taking a gamble

BBS63

After going thru OEM installed at dealer prior to purchase and all the other ones I installed since then, I was hoping that non drilled might make the warping stop.
I just never saw and option for non cross drilled for this car before as R1 Concepts was the only one I have seen so far for this model.
I did check out Power Source and do like their price and the complete kit of hardware included, will probably go with them. Will def replace the caliper bolts as at this point not leaving anything to chance.
Love working on my cars, just hate doing the same thing so often.

​​​​​​​Thanks

Beer_Bandit

I'm about to change my front rotors and pads. I'll be installing Brembo rotors with their NAO pads.

KnappAttack

The bakes were actually brand new, I could see the nice ground and lapped surface on the discs, as well as the carfax showing new brakes installed at the dealership. It drove nice and smooth, till I put a few miles on it. I'm sure that they didn't get bedded in properly, or the factory pads are just downright garbage, which is more than likely the case, because I've tried three time now to bed them in hard since I felt the pulsing coming on ever so slowly, but for whatever reason this set of pads and discs will not quit pulsating. It's absolutely the brakes, and the car runs smooth till the brakes are applied. There is obvious thickness variation on the discs now that is causing the brake pulsating.

So I either refinish the discs and sand the pad buildup and material off this set of discs and put new ceramics on, or I buy a whole kit including the discs. New kit with discs would for sure be the safest bet and why I was asking what people have used to keep it from happening again with their experience with brands of pads/brakes owning this vehicle.

chassis

Factory (original equipment) pads and rotors do not produce shudder and vibration. Visual inspection of a rotor produces no insight into vibration.

Parts that are not right produce shudder and vibration. You need to replace the parts that are not right, and are producing shudder and vibration.

Carfax is meaningless. The dealer could have used partially used pads and "new" meaning "different" rotors. Or the dealer could have used the cheapest rubbish parts he could find. There is no way to know for sure. Consider the possibility that things may not be as they seem.

What pad thickness did you measure when you took possession of the car?

Finding a shop to "refinish" the rotors will be interesting, please update the thread on your search. In my experience dealer don't do this because it is not in their financial best interest. Indy or brake shops may not do this either because "refinishing" or "turning" rotors is becoming a thing of the past.

Buy new rotors and pads from a dealer, install them and report back.

BBS63

Factory OEM Parts will fail, when I road tested my CLS noticed brake shudder from front brakes (MBZ Dealer) they replaced pads and rotors before I picked it up.
Whether you get the parts from Dealer or FCP Euro or any other source, there are but a few manufacturer's that made the disc for Benz.
I dont have the answer as to why I have had to change my rotors and pads 3 times in 20k miles as I always believed in OEM quality replacement parts especially for brakes, but looks like I will have to actually try aftermarket this time around and keep fingers crossed they last a bit longer.
So far I have spent over $1200 on these front brakes. Not including labor. Will report back after I get some miles after i get the Power Source brakes on as I read alot of people are happy with them.

KnappAttack

Agreed. All one has to do is search "brake shudder" on the forums and it's very obvious that people have had many issued with the factory parts even right from new, not just on the CLS but across the lineup, and it seems from reading that aftermarket pads and discs fix the issue more often than not. Its actually quite surprising to me that MB would continue to use the pad materials they do seeing all the complaints.

slk55er

I have not followed this thread and have not read all of the replies. In my experience from racing and driving schools, most shudder is caused by differences in the rotor material caused by heat soak which alters the hardness of portions of the rotor. Typically, after a hard drive when the brakes are hot, there is insufficient cool down and the car is parked. At that point, the hot pads create a portion of the rotor that has altered hardness. The shudder is caused by the resulting variation in the coefficient of friction. Most often, this can be corrected by a heavy sanding and scoring of the rotor with really coarse sand paper. It's worth a try...

hyperion667

slk55er

Yep! Science. I are an engineer with a Masters in EE and a Ph.D in Urban Transportation Engineering. If you have it -- it came by truck and was designed by an engineer. Celebrate Engineers! We need more of them.

BTW -- Do you know why there is "time"? Einstein said that time exists so that everything does not happen all at once.

hyperion667

I can't pretend to understand or operate in any capacity close to or in the same strata as Mr Einstein

Beer_Bandit

New Brembo rotors and pads fitted...... no more shudder.....so far.

hyperion667

KnappAttack

Wanted to bring this back to the top and report back that I finally feel I have fixed the shudder permanently. Its taken a while as I wanted to do a step by step process to see the reason and find the culprit of the sever shuddering I was experiencing. I have to tell you I was about at my wits end and thinking I wanted to rid myself of the shaking POS for a while, but I stuck with it and found the root cause.

I've read so much on brake shudder and pad buildup its crazy. Many say that its just pad buildup and can be cured by re-bedding the pads after sanding the discs, but I'm here to tell you that I did that numerous times both front and rear to no avail. I wont bore you with the details, but sanding the discs and re-bedding did nothing for me. Keep in mind when I bought this car it had new pads and discs on it, I could still see the new crosshatch on the discs and the Carfax showed they had also been changed. The pad shows Brembo and factory part numbers on them, and I believe the disc were also factory OEM but I cant confirm that. I know the front rims would be so extremely dirty that I had blow them off daily with compressed air. The front pads were nearly half gone when I finally changed them out, and the discs had already started showing prety good wear with a slight ridge on the front discs...

I sanded the discs and re-bedded the installed Brembo pads to no avail, I sanded again and swapped to Powerstops Z17 ceramic pads still to no avail. Still pulsed and shuddered, seemed to get worse and worse

I couldn't take it anymore, I ordered up Powerstop coated discs and Z23 ceramic pad kit front and back and replaced it all. Prior to taking off the factory discs I checked them all with a dial indicator, the last disc I checked, I found the driver front disc was actually warped, and it wasn't the normal in and out wobble 180 degrees apart. It had a pretty good .002" jump in it within a few inches of rotation, not sure how a thick heavy new disc could warp like that that quick, but it did. It handn't been abused or run thru water or anything. It just got worse over time every day. the shuddering came around the first couple thousand miles I had been driving the car. I never sit with my foot on brakes at a stop with hot rotors or anything like that either. It just simply warped the one driver side front rotor. All reports said that rotors dont warp but only get pad buildup. Guess that was wrong!

Ultimately, the Powerstop coated rotors and Z23 ceramic pads form RockAuto did the trick. I now feel confident that with over 3500 miles on them that its cured and is pulse free. As a bonus there is ZERO brake dust on the wheels and they stop better than they did previously by a long shot!

Thanks Powerstop for eliminating the brake shudder and the brake dust! Made a terrible drive into a smooth drive! They also look really good and stay so nice and clean!

The installed Brembo factory pad pictures are attached. The wear is ridiculous as can be seen after just a few thousand miles, no wonder there was so much dust on the wheels! These pads would last no time at all had I continued to run them...