hlkc

Last night my friend took me a test drive an Infiniti M35 and want me to give her my opinion. After a test drive, I feel MB electronics gadgets are few years behind. In M35, they have 3D birdeye navigation, voice activate navigation, voice activate radio, air-cool seat (take less than a min and you feel really cold air coming out from the seat), Keyless go as standard, rear view camera with navigation align back up parking, Bluetooth, turn on/off active bi-xenon...

Regarding the ride, the Infiniti has the HP there so are MB to me. The ride I do feel MB stronger and one piece than Infiniti. In term of style, of course I feel MB is far better than Infiniti. But all the toys make the car fun to drive are sure behind, way behind, what’s up with MB engineering? A $45K M35 has more electronic gadgets than any MB cars today. Please don't flame me, please don't get me wrong, I love MB, I can't see I drive Infiniti but MB engineering really need to do something there soon.

Thanks,
hlkc

benzmodz

Mercedes is releasing several things in the next two years that are totally new.
- night vision in the cluster (see through fog and see more in the dark).
- active camber (the camber will adjust into corners)
- Distronic plus (self braking)

Way into the future
- joystick drive-by-wire

This is not even a list ..... its just a few things I can think of quickly.

vraa

Lexus and Cadillac came out with infrared vision / night vision HUD's a while back.
The Infiniti M45 sport turns all four wheels, and I think has the active camber feature, not sure though, so someone might want to check on that.

As for the Distronic Plus, that would be wicked cool, combine it with the SBC Hold features.. wow! Only disadvantage I see is that SBC has been criticized heavily by almost everyone!

Joystick, leave me out!

ruykava

bluetooth and reversing cameras are coming to MB as well. cooled/heated/and even massaging seats are options on MB.

for navigation, i've never used the MB system so i really can't comment. but the voice-activated radio and telephone work perfectly for me.

there's no active camber on any production car right now AFAIK. as for four-wheel steering, it's in the old nissan 300zx as well. not sure if it really produces any big advantage as no one else seems to have picked it up? even the 300's replacement, the 350z, doesn't have it. but i've never driven such a car so i'm not sure.

i think the keyword abt MB is "integration": it's easy to fit all these toys in a car. it's much harder to make everything work as one. so you could for e.g. use the same screen for all operations. whether integration is really a big advantage is another question, but it certainly contributes to the "classiness" of the car.

so i guess you really can't have your cake and eat it (i.e. get all the new gadgets AND get them all integrated nicely)

ahm, and i love SBC -- probably because the first car i really liked (E-class) came with it and i've done most of my driving using SBC. now i think non-SBC brakes suck! :P

clkcadet

voice activated navi, phone, radio i have all of that in my car.....

fazooley

I couldnt agree with you more and Im a huge MB advocate. Even after continous problems with there cars I still return to the brand around every 2 years to update. I really hope when I grab the new S all these new gadgets work!

fazooley

Shine_1023

Ordered a GS300 in Sunday for wife.
Chinese interface with GPS/DVD, rear camera....
and costs only 72% the price of W211/E350.
BMW got Chinese I/F these days as well while Mercedes is far behind that.


p.s
Infiniti M35 is in my reference list,too.
(64% the price of E350)

swisstrader

Fact of life for probably the last 20 years, the Japanese will continue to outshine ALL car makers for years to come. If you think it was ugly comparing your MB to an Infiniti, try doing the same with a Ford or a Cadillac to an Infiniti....that's eye opening!

I'm still shocked that with lackluster everything (especially amazingly cheap plastics in almost all interiors), that anyone other than middle America would buy American.

Big Kahuna

Swisstrader you are absolutely correct. I would love it if the US auto manufacturers built quality cars again.

I switched to european cars in the early 80's when US quality went down the crapper.

I really wanted to buy american in the late 90's and bought my wife a Chrysler mini van that lasted only 3 years before she refused to drive due to safety issues and poor service.

Regarding the high-end Japaneese cars, the reliability and techno gadgets can't be beat. But, in my opinion, they just don't have the same class as a euro car. I know, it is all psychological due to marketing and public perception but thats my two cents.......

konigstiger

You're not alone!

July 1 -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported its highest June on record with sales of 18,242 new vehicles, an increase of 4.3 percent from last June. This brings the year-to-date sales total to 98,634 vehicles. In 2004, MBUSA achieved its eleventh consecutive year of sales growth by setting the highest sales volume in its history with 221,610 new vehicle sales.

Chip

All I can say is that from now on I will give it a year in production before I buy a MB redesign, so they can get all the kinks out of the gadgets. Spent to much time in a 03 E-55 driving around with a portable radio because the phone/audio system kept failing. However I would buy an E-55 today if that's what I wanted.

Dvinn

I agree with you on the electronics. To MBs credit, they, and most European manufactures tends to put a lot of their budgets on the car in safety instead of fancy gadgets. On the recent IIHS crash tests, they tested a M35 and Audis A6 in both frontal and side impact safety. Both cars scored well in the frontal crash test, but A6 got a better side impact scores because they have put the R&D efforts into overall safety not just trying to pass the "trend" frontal crash.

One would think how Infiniti has the budget to put all those fancy nancy stuff in there? Maybe from cutting corner on side impact safety and other safety areas.
20 years ago MB is already making their car safe in roll over safety while most manufactures don't even know to spell safety. MBs are safe all around while Japanese cars tend to be safe when there is an issue. A quote from IIHS pretty much sums it up.

" Side impact performances are improving: When the Institute released the first set of side impact tests in 2003, "there were few good performers," Lund points out. "Automakers are responding very rapidly by designing their new models and redesigning their old ones to earn better ratings in the side test. This is a severe test, so it's to the automakers' credit that they're improving their vehicles so quickly."

termigni

I buy my cars to drive. I dont' buy my cars to play with toys. Japanese cars don't come anywhere near German cars in terms of drivability and safety.

Japanese car makers are known for reverse-engineering german cars especially MBs. All the new innovations that MB puts out, Japanese copy them especially Toyota(cough cough). I don't deal with that kind of cheat ****.

*edit: german car makers make their cars for driveability whereas Japanese car makers make their cars for practicality. I mean, it's so clear, when you go to germancarfans.com, they have these big news about MBs brand new 6.3 500+hp V8 n/a engine and the high-reving V10 from BMW. try to find that in japanesecarfans.com, you'll find the new 1.8L i4 hybrid for their next gen. civics or some crap.

oh wait, don't get me wrong Japanese WILL come out with their V8 or V10 in couple years after they figure out how to copy and paste German engines.

Chip

That really is true. The Germans came up with it first. Japan just copys and mass produces. Tried that in WWII a lttle too late. Not that that has anything to do with now.

If you compare the two when it comes to how well they drive. German cars always come out better.

gaiex

You are a bit wrong, they don't have V8 or V10 engines because they can't sell cars with more than 280Hp (japanese ligeslation),thats why all japanese cars are under 280Hp, so, why to make a V10 engine!!!!
They invest in other areas, like those toys and handling (they are experts in this area) but theire little engines are allways ones of the best in the range.
They have a good V8 (or V10) engine in F1 :p

jwkim80

Your statement shows that you are totally ignorant about Automobiles.
It's hard to say who copied first and who has better engine.

Many Japanese engines were choosen as top 10 engine in the world too.
German and Japanese cars are just different, and hard to say which is "better car/engine"

Chip

Wrong the first Monkey Bike came from France. Shame on Honda can't they ever figure out anything by themselves,

vraa

LOL Kinda like Asimo right?

Toyota does have V12's. Just because we don't see them in USA/Euroland doesn't mean they don't exist.

Just like those V6 S-Classes... :o

termigni

sorry i may sound like i have offended you since you have that nice S2k.

Germans make. Japanese copy. Not just on the engine, but also most things. but a thing about Japanese is while they copy, they improve it too. that's how they were choosen as top 10 engines. i guess that's a good thing that's going for them.

just drive your S2k and then hop over to SLK 350 and compare. much more of a car if you ask anyone, in terms of technology and engineering. just feel out how much solid SLK feels vs S2k. S2k may turn in faster lap times around track but remember S2k has nothing in it. yes there is price difference but my point is German cars innovate and Japanese catch up later. hey, in a few years, new generation of S2k will be as stiff in body structure. but you know what? Germans are making more progress for the future while japanese makers are busy studying German engineering. that's how it's been all along.

jwkim80

No it does not offends me because I have s2k.

First, I disagree about body rigidity comparsion between S2000 and SLK350.
SLK has uni-body frame while S2000 has High-X born frame designed by Lotus.
S2000's body rigidity is very stiff and this can't be achieved with convertible uni-body.

I was EURO ONLY fan, before I actually purchase and owning Japanese cars.
Before S2000 and Accord, I have owned 2 MBs, 2 Audis, 2 VWs..
At that time I had exactly same feeling and thoughts as you about Japanese cars.

But after watching the innovations on Japanese makers, it totally changed my view.
I can name NUMORUS innovations that Japanese Automakers had it earlier than Germans.
Now I think both makers are pretty much same level in technologie-wise.

Also..
Such as general statement like..
"Japanese car makers are always compying Germans"
will get flamed no matter what in internet forums(maybe not in not so active CLS forum)

vrracr

my brother has an s2k and my wife has a Z4 3.0...i would take the Z4 any day. the s2k is a beautiful car with an awesome motor and handling, but the ride quality, interior space, and lack of amenities are a real disappointment. oh, and the sound level on the highway is just insane. the bmw, however, seems to have all the fun, almost as much power, and the comfort, safety, and appealiing cosmetics we're used to from our euro cars.

just thought i'd add my opinion since i drive both of these cars on a regular basis.

safeer

jwkim80

of course...

Z4 3.0 and SLK350 is lux roadster while S2000 is pure driver's car for tracks.
It's clear that 99% from this forum will prefer Z4 and SLK over S2000.

mxsb

Like an earlier poster said German is more prestige ( even though I think that gap is closing) and drivability because you can't possibly play with all those gadget going 160 miles on the autobahn, and the Japanese cars are more practical, which is what most Americans want. I too was a German car fan and I still am, but I've been dissapointed after having them for long periods of time (after buying them new). Yes at 100,000 miles they are still fun to drive, but you end up paying to keep the vehicle going. I had a clk with only 60,000 miles on it but couldn't pass the state inspection because of safety (the steering link). F*@# that see you later, I traded it in for a brand new Nissan which I've had twice before with high milage with no problems while my low milage german cars were always in the shop. I'll get back into the German vehicle game, but only the high end ones like the 2 door coupes and convertables which I don't have to drive everyday and are still worth a good piece of change in the long run.

Diocles

Japanese, German, American...it's the car that matters to me not who made it. I've enjoyed many cars both on the street and road racing (Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Willow Springs, Buttonwillow). It all depends what you want from a car.

I currently drive a WMC super 7 on the track, but I would never want it as a daily driver. I'm only an adequate racer but nothing gives me more pleasure than whipping $100,000 plus street cars with a stock S2000 powered vehicle. I perfer the CLS as a long distance form of transportation, though I will be taking it to the track for a good whipping. I guess it come down to that I'd rather have a stable of specialists than a jack-of-all-trades.

Of course with tht being said, I also purchase cars based on the distance to a "good" local dealer.

AMG2GO

Japanese make great cars, ultra reliable, effecient, and as of late pretty refined. They do always seem to be a step behind the Germans in fun-to-drive, two steps behind in safety, and three steps behind as far as style (with a few exceptions here and there).

They are definitely a step ahead in electronics. There is no doubt about this. But this is what the Japanese do well. Not too many of us own German TV's or DVD players. Japan is well ahead when it comes to electronics. The electronics in a $30,000 Acura TL are better than the electronics in my $140,000 CL600. I mean there is no comparison. And honestly, there is no excuse either.

MB should have someone competent doing the car's electronics. If it needs to be Japanese, then be it. We still don't have touchscreens. Its all a dial and press business. There is no bluetooth, no DVD audio or surround, small screens, and the sound systems are not that great. A quick listen to a Lexus/Levinson system is eye opening. I have no doubt the Infiniti nav is a much better system.

Year after year now MB has been behind in electronics. In cars that are much more expensive. It needs to end.