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So I just did a track day at Silverstone GP last week and thought I would share my experience with you, The results are not great i'm afraid! Full debrief below
Having done Nurburgring TF earlier this year, the brakes were pretty solid. I was just doing one lap at a time then letting them cool down for 30 mins or so. In terms of speed/ brake punishment, I don't know the track very well but was lapping consistently in the 8m20s (Feel free to watch:
). The car felt great, the only issue was the brake pedal was a bit spongey by the end of the day, but overall the car was brilliant and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
So in preparation for Silverstone, I figured I'd just upgrade the brake fluid to Motul 660 and I'd be good to go. I also put on a set of Cup2's (and keep the PS4's for the road only). Other than that the car is completely stock, and the brake pads were replaced recently, so plenty of life left on them. The day started with a 1.5 hour drive to the circuit, followed by around 5 or 6 sighting laps (all single file and under yellow flag conditions). I then went out and done a 70% speed out-lap, and then started pushing on. In the morning the track was wet & still raining and with my tyres having little grip I was lapping around the 3 minute mark. However straight away I was getting slight brake judder from my first few hot laps. I let the car cool down for 30 mins or so and then went out and did some more laps. As the circuit was drying out I managed to get down in to the 2m 40s , however the brake judder was getting much worse with each lap. As we left the circuit for the lunch break I thought after 1hr30m of the car sitting stationary when I got back they would be good to go. Not the case - they were still very hot (too hot to touch). Any who, the track had dried out and I thought this is probably my only opportunity to get some quick laps in. I done a veeeery slow outlap where I hardly touched the brakes, then done 2 hot laps back to back. a 2m31s followed by a 2m29s (watch here if you'd like:
). After this lap i did a very slow in lap, again avoiding the brakes as much as possible. When I got in to the garage I started chatting with the boffins in the garage next to me who immediately recognised that my brakes were f***ked. Both fronts were completely black. The pedal was extremely long and spongey and there was practically 0 braking performance. I then retired the car as it would have been dangerous to go back out on track. For reference, my friend was with me in his R8 V10+ which has Ceramics, and I sat with him for many laps throughout the day and his car performed flawlessly. Of course I expect ceramics will perform better but I couldn't believe how terrible mine were compared to his.
Am I the only who's had such bad performance at track days?
Going forward, clearly I need to find a solution to my brake issues because other than that the car is brilliant!
I've been doing a bit of research and from another thread on this forum I've found the exact Brembo part number for front discs, link here: https://www.bremboparts.com/europe/e...isc/09-9313-33
They're 390mm two piece floating discs. I've actually managed to find those discs for just £300 each on autodoc, including bell & disc! Which is very reasonable I must say....
However I'm thinking to go with Alcon 390mm discs. I believe the discs alone (no bell) are £295+VAT so roughly £360 each in the UK and I can just fit them to my existing stock bells. I haven't confirmed if that's possible yet but I'm going to speak to Litchfield in the UK to see if that can be done.
Re Brake Pads - it looks like Pagid RS29's are the way to go. They're very pricey at around £600 a pair for front and £330 for rear, but apparently they are used in Nurburgring 24h and even LeMans 24h, and the same disc and pad lasts the entire 24h!!! Hard to believe but that's what they're claiming. So i think paying the extra for the pads is worth it, and hopefully they last multiple track days to make them good value (or at least comparable to others, The Ferodo DS2500 are around half the price from what I've found). I have a spare set of stock pads which I can run for road use, then switch in the Pagid's for track days. Does anyone smarter than me know if this is a good plan? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Luckily I do have the luxury of time, as it's nearly Winter in London and I'm not going to be driving the car on track til next season.
Thanks for reading. I have attached pictures of the discs for your viewing pleasure!!
I think that here’s a very good chance your rotors are fine, but you’re suffering excess OEM pad deposition onto the rotor from the OEM pads being able to handle the heat from being used on track. Without better pix of the rotors I couldn’t be 100% certain, but junking a set of OEM rotors isn’t an easy thing to do.
I would bleed the brakes again to ensure you have fresh fluid in the calipers, and then install the Pagid track pads. Being more ‘abrasive’, the Pagid pads may well be able to clean off the debris from the OEM pads that is deposited unevenly on the rotors. Do a full bedding procedure using the new track pads before you spend the money on new rotors would be my advice.
What type of brake pad were you running? I could see where you changed the pads recently, did you go with a stock pad? If so that maybe your issue, stock pads are really not the right choice for a track day where heavy brake use is required. What I did on my Corvettes is purchase a track day pad from PowerStop, swap them before track day, bed them in, then swap back after track day. Make sure you label each pad as far as location on the caliper on both the stock pads when you remove them and track pads when you swap back.
I think that here’s a very good chance your rotors are fine, but you’re suffering excess OEM pad deposition onto the rotor from the OEM pads being able to handle the heat from being used on track. Without better pix of the rotors I couldn’t be 100% certain, but junking a set of OEM rotors isn’t an easy thing to do.
I would bleed the brakes again to ensure you have fresh fluid in the calipers, and then install the Pagid track pads. Being more ‘abrasive’, the Pagid pads may well be able to clean off the debris from the OEM pads that is deposited unevenly on the rotors. Do a full bedding procedure using the new track pads before you spend the money on new rotors would be my advice.
As Bish has already said, you need the brake cooling ducts. These cars don't have brake cooling as standard and the temps on track are simply too much for the brakes to handle.
The stability controls also uses the rear brakes so backing them off/ turning them off will help to some extent. Cool down laps in these cars are essential make sure you do them too.
You may also need to adjust your technique, at the rate you're lapping Silverstone you shouldn't really be seeing those sorts of results.
P.s Good to see someone else in the UK tracking a GT!
thebishman: That sounds encouraging! The guys at the track convinced me the discs were junk and needed replacing. As it's winter here I'm not going to be doing any track days soon, so should I still run the pagid pads on them on the road? The car currently still has the pads on from the track day, should I bin them? I have a spare set of oem/Brembo pads i can put on for the rest of winter.
WhiteBlack: Yes I agree! Someone has sent me a link to brake cooling ducts as well as Titanium brake shims. Will try them out next year in combination with better pads. Are you also in the UK? Join us on some track days next year!
WhiteBlack: Yes I agree! Someone has sent me a link to brake cooling ducts as well as Titanium brake shims. Will try them out next year in combination with better pads. Are you also in the UK? Join us on some track days next year!
Yes I'm in the UK, I probably have more days on track in a GTR than anyone else in the country The brake mods were not available when I started tracking the GTR even though it has ceramics it was an issue I learned to live/drive with, you can still turn in very fast laps while be kind the the brakes.
My new PRO has the brake ducts so I have been pushing harder with those:
Which TDO do you use? Always up for track time, especially if there's other AMGs involved.
Oh wow! Major car crush! It's the same (or similar?) colour as my GTS but just far more evolved. That must be so great on track.
I've been using Javelin thus far but open to any. A few friends are doing Brands and Snetterton in December but I think I'm going to wait it out until spring. Silverstone in the cold/wet was so difficult to find traction and put together clean laps. I'd probably be more up for some drift days!
Which TDO do you use?
My friend has a Renntech tuned AMG GTS and we're both keen on more track days.
havnek: I would install the Pagid track pads ASAP and start driving around with them on. They might well ‘squeal’ on the street, especially in cooler weather, but they will knock down the ‘hot spots’ on the rotors caused by non-linear OEM pad deposition. Do a full pad/rotor bedding procedure in order to speed up the process. I’ve read that using some fine grit ‘sandpaper’ on the rotors prior to installing the new Pagids can also help, but have no personal experience with this.
After hopefully getting a smooth layer of the Pagid pads deposited onto the rotors, you can then exchange them for your set of new OEM pads; driving on them thru’ the winter until next you head to the track.
Check Tikt or Renntech for front and rear brake cooling ducts before you head to the track next season. They aren’t cheap, but you’ll be able to recoup a decent amount of your purchase price when you sell/trade the car.
As WhiteBlack states, running with ESC fully on really chews up the rear pads. Try and get to the point where you are comfortable driving with ESC off which is pretty easy to do safely in this car as it’s well balanced. I don’t know your track experience level though, so take this leap slowly.
Constantly check on the depth of your pads prior, during and after a track day, especially the rears if running with ESC active. Note that the inner pads wear quicker than the outer ones, so since the inner pads are more difficult to get a good look at, I would always change out the pads when the outer pads are down to about 1/3rd of their original depth.
If you do end up having to replace rotors, make sure you only use top quality, well known brand name rotors from a company such as AP; Girodisc, etc.
No matter what kind of rotor/pad combination You choose proper brake ducts are necessary for any real fast laps. I got the PRO few months ago and I was very curious about the upgraded brakes, they help a bit but not nearly sufficient for serious track conditions. Check TIKT performance parts, they have front and rear ducts which are already proven on track by dozens of customers.
Oh wow! Major car crush! It's the same (or similar?) colour as my GTS but just far more evolved. That must be so great on track.
I've been using Javelin thus far but open to any. A few friends are doing Brands and Snetterton in December but I think I'm going to wait it out until spring. Silverstone in the cold/wet was so difficult to find traction and put together clean laps. I'd probably be more up for some drift days!
Which TDO do you use?
My friend has a Renntech tuned AMG GTS and we're both keen on more track days.
Yes, Will be the same colour, brilliant blue. I use RMA/GoldTrack/MSV usually. I must admit I tend to avoid javelin as they can be really busy with poor driving standards.
I'll not be running the GTR again until spring. Will be out on track in my E92 instead, its got wets and the value is not as much as the PRO so its much better suited to sliding about in the rain.
No matter what kind of rotor/pad combination You choose proper brake ducts are necessary for any real fast laps. I got the PRO few months ago and I was very curious about the upgraded brakes, they help a bit but not nearly sufficient for serious track conditions. Check TIKT performance parts, they have front and rear ducts which are already proven on track by dozens of customers.
Just for clarity, you guys make these for Tikt don't you.
I can confirm that the Tikt brake ducts will be your best solution if you are running steel rotors. It has been the best mod to my car so far. Rotors AND pads will last much much longer with the cooling.
In this thread, almost a year ago I tried to explain the technical aspects behind and I have posted testing results in Hard Track Use Upgrades thread and explanation why it is impossible to track the car with stock setup.
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