Weistech VS Renntech in 2020
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 129
From: DMV
AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
Renntech is the only one that bothers updating their website.
All the tunes are the same. It's just marketing. One tuner will go out in 70 degree weather and set a world record. The next week another tuner will go out in 60 degree weather and set a new world record. It's all the same. If you like the fact that Renntech provides you with all their information, you can/should reward them by spending $3000 on their tune vs $1500-2000 somewhere else.
When you have a highly modified car, that's when tuning skills really come into play.
All the tunes are the same. It's just marketing. One tuner will go out in 70 degree weather and set a world record. The next week another tuner will go out in 60 degree weather and set a new world record. It's all the same. If you like the fact that Renntech provides you with all their information, you can/should reward them by spending $3000 on their tune vs $1500-2000 somewhere else.
When you have a highly modified car, that's when tuning skills really come into play.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
There are some tuners, like OE (pointed out earlier) that appear to use one map for all 4 versions of the GT - which of course will produce the same results across each and they claim 617hp (surely measured at the crank)..Im sure its easier; they only have to maintain one set of software across all of the options.
With others (the 2 I could identify were Weistec and RENNtech) there ended up being two different maps. One for the GT/GTS and one for the GTC/GTR - the differences in each tune result isn't trivial. It gives the GTC/GTR a reward for their different config of (at the wheels) 51hp/ 29lb-ft. And it seems to go across the profile rather than just a peak.
Bottom line though, you are completely correct - they are not all the same.
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 43
From: San Francisco
2016 AMG GT-S
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
https://www.openflashtablet.com/blog...borghini-urus/
He's located in the East Bay.
Last edited by Skilly; May 28, 2020 at 10:37 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 129
From: DMV
AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
There are a handful of independents out there who do tunes tailored to your specific car. Many people don't appreciate the fact that every car is different. If you put two "identical" stock GTs on the same dyno on the same day they will turn (sometimes alarmingly) different results. The tuners we are discussing are very good, but generic from this standpoint. In the DMV there is a relatively new shop call AMG Tai's which is set up to do custom tuning.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 616
Likes: 245
Designo White AMG GTS
True, but I would go further than that after digging in deeper.
There are some tuners, like OE (pointed out earlier) that appear to use one map for all 4 versions of the GT - which of course will produce the same results across each and they claim 617hp (surely measured at the crank)..Im sure its easier; they only have to maintain one set of software across all of the options.
With others (the 2 I could identify were Weistec and RENNtech) there ended up being two different maps. One for the GT/GTS and one for the GTC/GTR - the differences in each tune result isn't trivial. It gives the GTC/GTR a reward for their different config of (at the wheels) 51hp/ 29lb-ft. And it seems to go across the profile rather than just a peak.
Bottom line though, you are completely correct - they are not all the same.
There are some tuners, like OE (pointed out earlier) that appear to use one map for all 4 versions of the GT - which of course will produce the same results across each and they claim 617hp (surely measured at the crank)..Im sure its easier; they only have to maintain one set of software across all of the options.
With others (the 2 I could identify were Weistec and RENNtech) there ended up being two different maps. One for the GT/GTS and one for the GTC/GTR - the differences in each tune result isn't trivial. It gives the GTC/GTR a reward for their different config of (at the wheels) 51hp/ 29lb-ft. And it seems to go across the profile rather than just a peak.
Bottom line though, you are completely correct - they are not all the same.
If you speak to the tuner at OE tuning, Eurocharged, or even the guy down the street that tunes Mustangs, they will tune your car based on what it is and it will perform the same as a Renntech tune.
You keep going off website information. The guy answering the phones or updating the website at a "volume tuner" probably doesn't know or give a **** about the differences considering he might sell 1 GTC or GTR tune every six months. It's not a matter of capability or the tunes being different.
I perfectly understand the comfort factor in going with Renntech. They a have a great reputation. They've laid out all the information for the consumer. But tuning a stock car is not brain science. If you were to try and explain to a room full of engine tuners how your Renntech tune is "different," they would probably bust out laughing.
edit: In a way, you guys are right. If you just want to hit checkout on a website and it show up two days later, Renntech is the most trouble free way of getting it done. You dont have to worry about reaching the right person to make sure you're getting what you need.
Last edited by kumizi; May 28, 2020 at 04:14 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 616
Likes: 245
Designo White AMG GTS
There are a handful of independents out there who do tunes tailored to your specific car. Many people don't appreciate the fact that every car is different. If you put two "identical" stock GTs on the same dyno on the same day they will turn (sometimes alarmingly) different results. The tuners we are discussing are very good, but generic from this standpoint. In the DMV there is a relatively new shop call AMG Tai's which is set up to do custom tuning.
BTW, I sent you a PM if you still want to sell that steering wheel.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
You guys must all be attorneys and have never tuned a car before. Paralysis by overanalysis.
If you speak to the tuner at OE tuning, Eurocharged, or even the guy down the street that tunes Mustangs, they will tune your car based on what it is and it will perform the same as a Renntech tune.
You keep going off website information. The guy answering the phones or updating the website at a "volume tuner" probably doesn't know or give a **** about the differences considering he might sell 1 GTC or GTR tune every six months. It's not a matter of capability or the tunes being different.
I perfectly understand the comfort factor in going with Renntech. They a have a great reputation. They've laid out all the information for the consumer. But tuning a stock car is not brain science. If you were to try and explain to a room full of engine tuners how your Renntech tune is "different," they would probably bust out laughing.
edit: In a way, you guys are right. If you just want to hit checkout on a website and it show up two days later, Renntech is the most trouble free way of getting it done. You dont have to worry about reaching the right person to make sure you're getting what you need.
If you speak to the tuner at OE tuning, Eurocharged, or even the guy down the street that tunes Mustangs, they will tune your car based on what it is and it will perform the same as a Renntech tune.
You keep going off website information. The guy answering the phones or updating the website at a "volume tuner" probably doesn't know or give a **** about the differences considering he might sell 1 GTC or GTR tune every six months. It's not a matter of capability or the tunes being different.
I perfectly understand the comfort factor in going with Renntech. They a have a great reputation. They've laid out all the information for the consumer. But tuning a stock car is not brain science. If you were to try and explain to a room full of engine tuners how your Renntech tune is "different," they would probably bust out laughing.
edit: In a way, you guys are right. If you just want to hit checkout on a website and it show up two days later, Renntech is the most trouble free way of getting it done. You dont have to worry about reaching the right person to make sure you're getting what you need.
I managed to gain access to engineers in both cases where I leaned in hence learning about the 2 different maps which you said wasn't available. Not 'bespoke' different from car to car...SMH.
The original question was centered on do they tune the same across all 4 car variants. Your'e choosing to either overlook or not believe that fundamentally the GT/GTS and the GTC/GTR are tuned with a different map, at least from RENNtech and Weistec (maybe more but I didn't verify). You came over the top early on being the truth police and now you seem to be doing what you said you wanted to prevent - misinformation.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
2019 GTC, 2017 Ram 3500 Deleted
Stock Dyno Results 2019 GTC 93 Octane 1400 Miles 73 degrees
Ok. OP is back with the stock dyno from today.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
2019 GTC Stock Dyno.pdf
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
2019 GTC Stock Dyno.pdf
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 57
MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
Originally Posted by gshoe777
Ok. OP is back with the stock dyno from today.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
-Chris
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 616
Likes: 245
Designo White AMG GTS
Thanks for posting the dyno.
1. I am shocked at the difference between Sport+ and Race. Learned something new today if they really hold the car back that much in sport+ mode from the factory.
2. Each dyno is different but still those are surprisingly good results. Did they use a dynojet dyno? Will be interesting to see the after number.
1. I am shocked at the difference between Sport+ and Race. Learned something new today if they really hold the car back that much in sport+ mode from the factory.
2. Each dyno is different but still those are surprisingly good results. Did they use a dynojet dyno? Will be interesting to see the after number.
Last edited by kumizi; May 28, 2020 at 07:30 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
2019 GTC, 2017 Ram 3500 Deleted
Thanks for posting the dyno.
1. I am shocked at the difference between Sport+ and Race. Learned something new today if they really hold the car back that much in sport+ mode from the factory.
2. Each dyno is different but still those are surprisingly good results. Did they use a dynojet dyno? Will be interesting to see the after number.
1. I am shocked at the difference between Sport+ and Race. Learned something new today if they really hold the car back that much in sport+ mode from the factory.
2. Each dyno is different but still those are surprisingly good results. Did they use a dynojet dyno? Will be interesting to see the after number.
Yeah I was totally bummed about the spread too. I hardly ever drive in race.
Forgot to mention. Yes it was a dyno jet. Or at least they said it was a dyno jet. I never saw it with my own 2 eyes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 129
From: DMV
AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
I agree dyno tuning is best, although on a bone stock car I doubt there is enough variance to make a difference. If you live in a big city, go take a drive down to your local shop and talk to the actual guy that tunes for them. If you pay him for a tune, he will tell you the exact air fuel, timing, etc on your car and can even play around with other things like throttle response. It will help educate you and also down the road if you make any mods, he'll be able to retune.
BTW, I sent you a PM if you still want to sell that steering wheel.
BTW, I sent you a PM if you still want to sell that steering wheel.
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 152
Likes: 43
From: San Francisco
2016 AMG GT-S
I see youre in the Bay Area - if you are looking for someone who's well known in these parts and provides a more personal approach to tuning, you may want to reach out to Shiv @ Openflash Performance. He was recently featured in Car and Driver for tweaking the HP/lb-ft on a Lambo Urus. I know the owner of the car - its FAST(er)!:
https://www.openflashtablet.com/blog...borghini-urus/
He's located in the East Bay.
https://www.openflashtablet.com/blog...borghini-urus/
He's located in the East Bay.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
Ok. OP is back with the stock dyno from today.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
2019 GTC, 2017 Ram 3500 Deleted
I'll probably get both done at the same time. Stay tuned! No pun intended
Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 189
Likes: 57
MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
Originally Posted by gshoe777
parts just came in. Waiting to schedule second stock dyno so I can get the tq numbers.
I'll probably get both done at the same time. Stay tuned! No pun intended
I'll probably get both done at the same time. Stay tuned! No pun intended
Take care.
-Chris
Ok. OP is back with the stock dyno from today.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
See the picture attached.
Little ticked off at the dyno place because they failed to mention that they didn't have the right connector to also read TQ. So we only have HP recorded today.
I had them run a session at Sport+ and also Race. You'll see the difference in the photo.
Race max HP to the wheels was 551HP
Sport+ max HP to the wheels was 506HP.
They claim the drivetrain steels 20% from the crank numbers but the Renntech and Weistech sites claimed that figure is 12% (to my memory)
Crank Calc for Race = 617HP-661HP
Crank Calc for Sport+ = 566HP-607HP
The car has less than 1400 miles on it. 93 octane. The temp in NY today was 73 and humid.
Attachment 425309
I'm going back to get the TQ recorded too before I add the tune. I'll upload that one as well.
@ 551 WHP with GTc Drive train loss of 12% your crank HP is actually : 551/0.88 = 626 HP. At 20% loss 551/0.8= 688 HP. This is because you measure a loss so the approximate calculations method is WHP/(1-loss%)= HP@crank
( 626 HP - 12% gives you 551 whp).
Regardless, these numbers seems to be at very high delta from stock. The graph looks like a DynoJet plot, which always run higher then Mustang and others (some estimate it at 9-12% higher).
Next dyno pull , ask to print the Test Condition data. It will be interesting if they use Correction Factor of 1.0 or higher. That could explain the higher numbers.
Setting the HP aside, what really matters ( since you cannot change the stock values) is to see the gain between Stock and Tune.
Good luck with the pulls and let us know when you have the results.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 624
From: California
2020 McLaren 720s Spider
since the stock baseline readout is so much more performant than stock (in his readings), I'm going to be more interested in the delta for sure.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 18
Likes: 5
2019 GTC, 2017 Ram 3500 Deleted
Random question.
I also have some bmc air filters. Should I install them with the tune before the dyno or do you guys want to see just the stock car plus the tune?
I'm considering installing the filters last and doing a third dyno to see if those bring any gains. I dont know if that's worth doing though.
Thoughts?
I also have some bmc air filters. Should I install them with the tune before the dyno or do you guys want to see just the stock car plus the tune?
I'm considering installing the filters last and doing a third dyno to see if those bring any gains. I dont know if that's worth doing though.
Thoughts?
