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Wanted to share an incredible drive through the countryside I recently went on in my GTC. What most reviews don't mention is how much the rear mounted gearbox adds to the experience. You can hear the gearbox working, which makes the drive more special.
Also, the dynamic engine and chassis mounts really change the feel of the car. In Sport+ and Manual on a winding road the car feels like it has shrunk around you. You are sitting exactly on the rotational axis. The pops and bangs in Sport+ (on the pre 2020MY cars) is ridiculously entertaining....
I recently test drove a 992 911, thinking I would add a manual transmission cabriolet to my collection; but it felt sterile and boring by comparison. I literally could not wait to return it to the dealership and get back into the GTC!
When I traded in my 2015 C63 507 Edition coupe for the GTC, I was worried that the difference would not be worth 2X the cost. I loved the C63 507. In short: the GTC is definitely worth the upgrade! The GTC is better balanced, more precise, more nimble, way more power, and it fixes the two biggest problems with the C63: traction and slow shifts. The slow shifts really hobble an otherwise very responsive engine, which is a shame.
Sound: I prefer the sound of the 4L V8 (in my 2019MY car - I know it's quieter for 2020) under acceleration. But the idle sound is better for the 6.2L.
I think that it ends up being largely subjective but I use some of the clearer examples that help define the classifications for helping me decide.
Sports car is the widest of the categories and encompasses cars like the Mazda Miata, or Toyota GT-86...as well as on the top end of the class, base versions of the 911. Supercars tend to have mid-engine cars and have links to the 'exotics' label in that bucket has the likes of McLaren's and Ferraris. Funny enough, it's pretty common to see the 911 package creep in to this category without much dispute with the TT, GT3, GT3RS etc.
The GTC to me, seems much closer to the supercar performance specs (top end, HP, 0-60, and track capabilities) than the wide berth in the sports car bucket. In fact, a tuned GTC, or stock GTR will go head to head with a Ferrari 458 all day long. I think the challenge is that in general cars are just getting better...and the super car doesn't cost as much as a decent home anymore nor is it as rare as it has been in the past.
Yeah, I agree with this classification. It's also partly based on how rare and expensive a car is, and how it looks. A car that's sub-$100k new (ie. Corvette Z06) isn't a supercar even if it has supercar performance just because they're a rather common sight and not a noteworthy spot. The C8 is a temporary exception to this because I've seen about a dozen Ferraris on the road in the past 6 months and one C8, but I expect C8s will eventually be everywhere the same way C7 Corvettes are.
I'd describe the tiers as:
Entry-level sports car: Mazda MX-5 (Miata), Fiat 124, Subaru BRZ
Mid-range sports car: Toyota Supra, Nissan 370Z, BMW M240i, BMW 440i, BMW Z4, Lexus RC, Porsche 718 base
High-mid sports car: Corvette base, Porsche 911 base, Porsche 718 S/GTS, BMW M2, BMW M4, C63 AMG Coupe
High-end sports car: Corvette Z06, Porsche 911 S and GTS, AMG GT base, Porsche 718 GT4/Spyder
Supercar-lite: AMG GT C, AMG GT R, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbo, Corvette ZR1, Ferrari Portofino
Supercar: Lamborghini Huracan, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488 or F8, Porsche 911 GT3 RS and GT2 RS, SLS AMG, AMG GT Black Series
Supercar-plus: McLaren 720S or 765LT, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ferrari F12 or 812, Lamborghini Aventador
Hypercar: Any Koenigsegg, any Pagani, Porsche 918, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari F50, Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren P1, McLaren Senna
Good review and glad you love the GTC, but I’m not sure any of the GT variants qualify as a ‘Supercar’, except for the soon to be released BS of course.
Good review and glad you love the GTC, but I’m not sure any of the GT variants qualify as a ‘Supercar’, except for the soon to be released BS of course.
Bish
Yeah, it's sort of on the line between sports and super-sports, right? If you factor looks, performance, and cost, it pushes it into supercar in my book... but I can see why it's debatable. A few YouTube "professional" reviewers. called it a supercar too, for what that's worth.
Even in Toronto, the 3rd largest city in the US/Canada, which has a ton of exotic cars, at least 1 person on every trip takes a photo or gives me a thumbs up.
Have to admit that I never really understood the fine lines that separate a performance car, sports car, super car, hyper car and exotic.
I consider our E63s sedan and M8comp coupe a performance car while I think of the GTC as a sports car. I agree that the GT BS could be considered a Supercar. Speed and power appear unrelated to these labels...
Have to admit that I never really understood the fine lines that separate a performance car, sports car, super car, hyper car and exotic.
I consider our E63s sedan and M8comp coupe a performance car while I think of the GTC as a sports car. I agree that the GT BS could be considered a Supercar. Speed and power appear unrelated to these labels...
I think that it ends up being largely subjective but I use some of the clearer examples that define the classifications for helping me decide.
Sports car is the widest of the categories and encompasses cars like the Mazda Miata, or Toyota GT-86...as well as on the top end of the class, base versions of the 911. Supercars tend to have mid-engine cars and have links to the 'exotics' label in that bucket has the likes of McLaren's and Ferraris. Funny enough, it's pretty common to see the 911 package creep in to this category without much dispute with the TT, GT3, GT3RS etc.
The GTC to me, seems much closer to the supercar performance specs (top end, HP, 0-60, and track capabilities) than the wide berth in the sports car bucket. In fact, a tuned GTC, or stock GTR will go head to head with a Ferrari 458 all day long. I think the challenge is that in general cars are just getting better...and the super car doesn't cost as much as a decent home anymore nor is it as rare as it has been in the past.
I think that it ends up being largely subjective but I use some of the clearer examples that help define the classifications for helping me decide.
Sports car is the widest of the categories and encompasses cars like the Mazda Miata, or Toyota GT-86...as well as on the top end of the class, base versions of the 911. Supercars tend to have mid-engine cars and have links to the 'exotics' label in that bucket has the likes of McLaren's and Ferraris. Funny enough, it's pretty common to see the 911 package creep in to this category without much dispute with the TT, GT3, GT3RS etc.
The GTC to me, seems much closer to the supercar performance specs (top end, HP, 0-60, and track capabilities) than the wide berth in the sports car bucket. In fact, a tuned GTC, or stock GTR will go head to head with a Ferrari 458 all day long. I think the challenge is that in general cars are just getting better...and the super car doesn't cost as much as a decent home anymore nor is it as rare as it has been in the past.
Yeah, I agree with this classification. It's also partly based on how rare and expensive a car is, and how it looks. A car that's sub-$100k new (ie. Corvette Z06) isn't a supercar even if it has supercar performance just because they're a rather common sight and not a noteworthy spot. The C8 is a temporary exception to this because I've seen about a dozen Ferraris on the road in the past 6 months and one C8, but I expect C8s will eventually be everywhere the same way C7 Corvettes are.
I'd describe the tiers as:
Entry-level sports car: Mazda MX-5 (Miata), Fiat 124, Subaru BRZ
Mid-range sports car: Toyota Supra, Nissan 370Z, BMW M240i, BMW 440i, BMW Z4, Lexus RC, Porsche 718 base
High-mid sports car: Corvette base, Porsche 911 base, Porsche 718 S/GTS, BMW M2, BMW M4, C63 AMG Coupe
High-end sports car: Corvette Z06, Porsche 911 S and GTS, AMG GT base, Porsche 718 GT4/Spyder
Supercar-lite: AMG GT C, AMG GT R, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbo, Corvette ZR1, Ferrari Portofino
Supercar: Lamborghini Huracan, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488 or F8, Porsche 911 GT3 RS and GT2 RS, SLS AMG, AMG GT Black Series
Supercar-plus: McLaren 720S or 765LT, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ferrari F12 or 812, Lamborghini Aventador
Hypercar: Any Koenigsegg, any Pagani, Porsche 918, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari F50, Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren P1, McLaren Senna
I’ve never owned anything that attracts this much attention...
Nothing. I’ve been stopped at a light and been complimented by elderly ladies, cops and everyone in between... I track mine regularly and properly setup it’s an absolute blast at the track. And the noise... oh the noise...
Yeah, I agree with this classification. It's also partly based on how rare and expensive a car is, and how it looks. A car that's sub-$100k new (ie. Corvette Z06) isn't a supercar even if it has supercar performance just because they're a rather common sight and not a noteworthy spot. The C8 is a temporary exception to this because I've seen about a dozen Ferraris on the road in the past 6 months and one C8, but I expect C8s will eventually be everywhere the same way C7 Corvettes are.
I'd describe the tiers as:
Entry-level sports car: Mazda MX-5 (Miata), Fiat 124, Subaru BRZ
Mid-range sports car: Toyota Supra, Nissan 370Z, BMW M240i, BMW 440i, BMW Z4, Lexus RC, Porsche 718 base
High-mid sports car: Corvette base, Porsche 911 base, Porsche 718 S/GTS, BMW M2, BMW M4, C63 AMG Coupe
High-end sports car: Corvette Z06, Porsche 911 S and GTS, AMG GT base, Porsche 718 GT4/Spyder
Supercar-lite: AMG GT C, AMG GT R, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbo, Corvette ZR1, Ferrari Portofino
Supercar: Lamborghini Huracan, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488 or F8, Porsche 911 GT3 RS and GT2 RS, SLS AMG, AMG GT Black Series
Supercar-plus: McLaren 720S or 765LT, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ferrari F12 or 812, Lamborghini Aventador
Hypercar: Any Koenigsegg, any Pagani, Porsche 918, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari F50, Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren P1, McLaren Senna
I agree with your list, but I usually refer to the supercar lite category as Super Sports. I personally don't consider anything that can't do a sub 3 second 0-60 as a supercar.
Originally Posted by DriveAMG
Nothing. I’ve been stopped at a light and been complimented by elderly ladies, cops and everyone in between... I track mine regularly and properly setup it’s an absolute blast at the track. And the noise... oh the noise...
But what other exotics have you owned previously? My car gets far less attention than say a 488, 570s, or 610, but it gets more attention than anything else I've ever owned as it's my first sports car.
I agree with your list, but I usually refer to the supercar lite category as Super Sports. I personally don't consider anything that can't do a sub 3 second 0-60 as a supercar.
But what other exotics have you owned previously? My car gets far less attention than say a 488, 570s, or 610, but it gets more attention than anything else I've ever owned as it's my first sports car.
This is the challenge with the category all together over the recent years. 15 years ago, sub 5 seconds was impressive, then 4, and now 3. And, using that as a clear delineation puts Tesla Model S in the Supercar territory - I dont think a 4 door sedan has a place in these categories...but they are all impressive these days; and then there's the E63 station wagon putting down high 10's in the quarter mile and turning the model again on its head.
As for attention, I have mine pretty modified, but I do that to all of my cars. I have owned several exotics (R8 v10, 360 challenge stradale, 911 TTS etc) and this one does get the most attention. By far - I can't go on a drive without someone chasing me down and trying to give me a thumbs up or take pictures (usually both) and I live in California where a McLaren, Ferrari or some exotic is always just around the corner. The 911 was practically stealth in this realm and no surprise the Ferrari was a close second.
This is the challenge with the category all together over the recent years. 15 years ago, sub 5 seconds was impressive, then 4, and now 3. And, using that as a clear delineation puts Tesla Model S in the Supercar territory - I dont think a 4 door sedan has a place in these categories...but they are all impressive these days; and then there's the E63 station wagon putting down high 10's in the quarter mile and turning the model again on its head.
I should have expounded, I didn't mean to insinuate that a sub 3 sec 0-60 was the only determining factor, just that as far as performance metrics go it's a criteria for me. It's the same reason why a Murci is no longer a supercar, but an exotic. As cars age out of the performance metrics they lose the supercar standing.
For me personally, a supercar needs brand cachet, insane performance, and exotic styling, with a dash of price exclusivity.
Good review and glad you love the GTC, but I’m not sure any of the GT variants qualify as a ‘Supercar’, except for the soon to be released BS of course.
Bish
How do you figure you hold the right of passage as to what a "Super Car" is? You mean if it is only all made of carbon fiber? If it is only painted neon yellow? If it only has trunk space in the front? Has a inflated, non justified price tag of above $300K? Is 1/2 inch from the ground? I mean, a car is super based on performance. And the GT equal if not better than many cars you consider 'Super"...
Last edited by ZephyrAMG; Sep 11, 2020 at 12:35 PM.
Have to admit that I never really understood the fine lines that separate a performance car, sports car, super car, hyper car and exotic.
I consider our E63s sedan and M8comp coupe a performance car while I think of the GTC as a sports car. I agree that the GT BS could be considered a Supercar. Speed and power appear unrelated to these labels...
I think the monniker of "Super Car" stemmed from that exotic sensation that it is more a piece of art (made of all Carbon, odd sizing wings and colors) and unattainable by more than anyone other than Saudi Royalty or millionaires....Many of the cars deemed as "SUPER" at one time can be out done by an Alpha Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio today...
It was more of a novelty thing. I would consider the 918 Spyder a "super car" due to its technology and performace...
I think the monniker of "Super Car" stemmed from that exotic sensation that it is more a piece of art (made of all Carbon, odd sizing wings and colors) and unattainable by more than anyone other than Saudi Royalty or millionaires....Many of the cars deemed as "SUPER" at one time can be out done by an Alpha Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio today...
It was more of a novelty thing. I would consider the 918 Spyder a "super car" due to its technology and performace...
Agreed. This conversation shows that this is truly in the eye of the beholder. Too many exceptions to create a simple grid (even with subjective sub-categories). I couldn't imagine a Ferrari F50 or a Carrera GT to be a hyper car. Too slow, too old. A C8 will not be a super car to me, no matter if its sub 3 sec or mid-engined; too pedestrian even if immensely capable.
I think of the GTC as an extremely capable sports car, just like a Porsche TTS and I am quite happy with that classification
I agree with your list, but I usually refer to the supercar lite category as Super Sports. I personally don't consider anything that can't do a sub 3 second 0-60 as a supercar.
But what other exotics have you owned previously? My car gets far less attention than say a 488, 570s, or 610, but it gets more attention than anything else I've ever owned as it's my first sports car.
Interesting discussion. I've owned multiple McLaren's with latest being a 600LT Spider. They all drew a lots of attention but none as much as my Solar Beam Yellow GT R PRO! Every car event I've attended since taking delivery a few weeks ago the car gets mobbed and multiple postings of photos on Facebook and Instagram. I also participated in a charity car show last weekend, 125 cars entered and four categories. I won Best In Show! Pretty crazy!
Agreed. This conversation shows that this is truly in the eye of the beholder. Too many exceptions to create a simple grid (even with subjective sub-categories). I couldn't imagine a Ferrari F50 or a Carrera GT to be a hyper car. Too slow, too old. A C8 will not be a super car to me, no matter if its sub 3 sec or mid-engined; too pedestrian even if immensely capable.
I think of the GTC as an extremely capable sports car, just like a Porsche TTS and I am quite happy with that classification
It’s all very subjective. There is no definition of supercar beyond what we individually consider it to be.
In my mind, cars never age out of their classification. If they were super in their time, they remain super today, even if they’re slower than ordinary new sports cars. A 570S (or even C8) may thoroughly spank a Carrera GT in the 0-60 sprint, but they’ll never be even close to the exotic/specialness of the Carrera GT. Cars like the F50 and Carrera GT were so far above the “regular” super cars of their times that for me they’ll always be in a tier of specialness above any modern regular supercar, even if modern cars are faster. The way they look, sound, feel, their exclusivity, and their place in history is what puts them above the realm of mere supercars.
Being super isn’t just about being faster than other cars currently on the market. It’s about making men lust and drool over them.
Resale value on the used market is actually a decent measure of how “super” a performance car is from
my perspective. As a rough classification:
Yeah, I agree with this classification. It's also partly based on how rare and expensive a car is, and how it looks. A car that's sub-$100k new (ie. Corvette Z06) isn't a supercar even if it has supercar performance just because they're a rather common sight and not a noteworthy spot. The C8 is a temporary exception to this because I've seen about a dozen Ferraris on the road in the past 6 months and one C8, but I expect C8s will eventually be everywhere the same way C7 Corvettes are.
I'd describe the tiers as:
Entry-level sports car: Mazda MX-5 (Miata), Fiat 124, Subaru BRZ
Mid-range sports car: Toyota Supra, Nissan 370Z, BMW M240i, BMW 440i, BMW Z4, Lexus RC, Porsche 718 base
High-mid sports car: Corvette base, Porsche 911 base, Porsche 718 S/GTS, BMW M2, BMW M4, C63 AMG Coupe
High-end sports car: Corvette Z06, Porsche 911 S and GTS, AMG GT base, Porsche 718 GT4/Spyder
Supercar-lite: AMG GT C, AMG GT R, Audi R8, Porsche 911 GT3 and Turbo, Corvette ZR1, Ferrari Portofino
Supercar: Lamborghini Huracan, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488 or F8, Porsche 911 GT3 RS and GT2 RS, SLS AMG, AMG GT Black Series
Supercar-plus: McLaren 720S or 765LT, Ferrari 488 Pista, Ferrari F12 or 812, Lamborghini Aventador
Hypercar: Any Koenigsegg, any Pagani, Porsche 918, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari F50, Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren P1, McLaren Senna
from what I've seen Mercedes matches the GT Series up with Porsche as follows:
AMG GT - Base 911/S
GT C - 911 GTS
GT R - 911 GT3
GT R PRO - 911 GT3 RS /GT 2 RS.
Based on performance and very limited production numbers you could arguably put the GT R PRO in the "SuperCar" class and possibly even the GT R. The lines get even more blurred when looking at pure performance numbers. A stock McLaren 720S is already producing HyperCar numbers and the soon to be released 765LT will no doubt set another new performance standard. It's going to be ballistic!
Agreed. This conversation shows that this is truly in the eye of the beholder. Too many exceptions to create a simple grid (even with subjective sub-categories). I couldn't imagine a Ferrari F50 or a Carrera GT to be a hyper car. Too slow, too old. A C8 will not be a super car to me, no matter if its sub 3 sec or mid-engined; too pedestrian even if immensely capable.
I think of the GTC as an extremely capable sports car, just like a Porsche TTS and I am quite happy with that classification
Agreed on all points, and I think extremely capable sports car is a good way to look at the GT lineup.
It’s all very subjective. There is no definition of supercar beyond what we individually consider it to be.
In my mind, cars never age out of their classification. If they were super in their time, they remain super today, even if they’re slower than ordinary new sports cars. A 570S (or even C8) may thoroughly spank a Carrera GT in the 0-60 sprint, but they’ll never be even close to the exotic/specialness of the Carrera GT. Cars like the F50 and Carrera GT were so far above the “regular” super cars of their times that for me they’ll always be in a tier of specialness above any modern regular supercar, even if modern cars are faster. The way they look, sound, feel, their exclusivity, and their place in history is what puts them above the realm of mere supercars.
Being super isn’t just about being faster than other cars currently on the market. It’s about making men lust and drool over them.
Resale value on the used market is actually a decent measure of how “super” a performance car is from
my perspective. As a rough classification:
Sub-$100k is a sports car
$100k-160k is a super sports car
$160k-250k is a basic supercar
$250k-$500k is a premium supercar
$500k+ is a hypercar
This is a tough way to stick the landing too....A 1980's Ferrari Testarossa that has all the earmarks of an exotic and supercar in its day is a mere sports car in this financial categorization.
I defer to a decision made in 1964 on hardcore Porno. Defining Hard Core was difficult, but the Supreme Court justice stated simply “ I know it when I see it”.......same applies to my definition of a supercar.
I defer to a decision made in 1964 on hardcore Porno. Defining Hard Core was difficult, but the Supreme Court justice stated simply “ I know it when I see it”.......same applies to my definition of a supercar.
I defer to a decision made in 1964 on hardcore Porno. Defining Hard Core was difficult, but the Supreme Court justice stated simply “ I know it when I see it”.......same applies to my definition of a supercar.
funny enough, my wife's recent quote - "are you on that car **** site again?"
This is a tough way to stick the landing too....A 1980's Ferrari Testarossa that has all the earmarks of an exotic and supercar in its day is a mere sports car in this financial categorization.
Wow, that’s a pretty good deal if it’s in good condition.
I suppose my categorization would make more sense in Canadian dollars. A Testarossa in Canada is usually $120-150k, and a 512TR is $200k+. I’d consider a Testarossa a supercar for sure, and a 512TR a better Testarossa.
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