Bijan Kohan

How’s it going?

For those who know my build, I have gone with pure turbos stage 2, catless DP’s, and tune. My tuner Golabworks is highly recommending a HPFP which I have ordered and just received. I will need to install that and will go with a full E85 tune.

I think it’s a good idea to install a meth kit at the same time for the added cooling. However, I am being told by my tuner that we need a charge pipe for the meth pipe to hook up to the turbo inlets.

The only solution I’ve seen so far is to with Weistec as they have a kit which is pretty much an AEM meth kit with a charge pipe but they will not sell the charge pipe separately. Their cost for the kit is $2100 which is crazy since the AEM kit goes for about $600. So you’re paying $1500 for a small piece of piping basically.

Anyone who installed a meth kit or has info on this, please chime in. Thanks.

Acta_Non_Verba

It's been a "few" years since I've done a meth setup and I don't know if this will be any help to you at all, but when I did big builds, Alky Control was my goto company. They're all American car guys, but they're resourceful and pretty creative. Maybe as a try, you can reach out to them. See if they have any ideas or solutions.

Xerial

Just out of curiosity, what is your Dragy times for your current setup? I don't see many people modifying their gts, and I'm interested in getting Stage 2 for my '16 gts.

502Bill

I have the wisetec kit and can confirm they will sell the charge pipe separately only if you already purchased the kit. I had a fitment issue that I got around, but called to see if they would send me a replacement.

Its a fairly basic design so it’s possible to make your own using silicone tape and extra tubing. Perhaps you could reach out to AEM for a recommendation.

cdk4219

Isn’t your e85 going to mitigate charge temps in the cylinder? I know the inlet charge may still be high, but in all my 85 builds the actual combustion chamber temps are much lower with e85 than e10.

Bijan Kohan

Yes you are right. E85 runs much cooler. And on 2nd thought since I track my car only once or twice yearly, and my GTS is a garage queen I will not be going with meth.

With my current setup, I’m only doing about 580 to the wheels with 91 gas. There’s definitely something wrong with my setup, either wastegate adjustment, boost leak or my tune is way too conservative. Hoping to have that checked out before I install the HPFP and E85 tune.

Any thoughts?

502Bill

Bijan,

From reading your previous posts on this topic, I know you have been chasing this demon for a while. Few thoughts on this...

Going full E85 will require the HPFP, flex fuel sensor and new fuel rails. You will not be able to push enough E85 through the stock rails. You can run E50 which will require blending, but a flex fuel sensor can help you manage this. Going full E85 you should run pure gas at least every 3 fill ups if the car sits for any extended time. E85 is great, but its not fill and forget.

Meth injection should be run with a mix of 51% water and 50% methanol. You can run pure M1, but it is dangerous and brings added risk due to fire. Extremely combustible. The extra power when running pure M1 vs. a blend is negligible in my opinion.

I dont have any evidence to back up my claim, but I would be concerned about cylinder pressures if you do both and shoot for more than 19 psi. That is a lot of fuel. I know a few run this combination successfully, but for how long before lifting a cylinder head? I would go with one or the other. I currently run 93 octane, methanol blend, catless downpipes, BMC filters, Pure 900 turbos and custom Eurocharged tune to achieve 700+ hp.

Lastly on this post, consider the tuner. Do they have experience with this platform and the mods you want to use? Dont be the guinea pig when it comes to this car. The platform is strong but a poor tune will turn this engine into an expensive paper weight. This isnt a plug for Eurocharged, but they have tuned every combination currently available. They also provide a 2 year warranty on both their box tunes or custom. I believe a custom tune for your application is worth the piece of mind.

Bijan Kohan

Wow, thanks for all the insight 502bill.

My tuner, Golabworks did not mention anything about a flex fuel sensor or replacing my fuel rails. I will bring it up to them.

I understand that the car cannot sit for extended periods of time with e85. However, by extended, how long? 10 days? A few weeks? If I do fill up with 91, which is unfortunately the best here in LA, I would need to change the tune every time I switch back to 91 from E85. If I take the car out every weekend, is that ok?

It seems like eurocharged knows what they’re doing if you’re running 700+. Granted, I’m not running 93 or meth blend but 580 is extremely low. Do you think something is wrong with my install or setup? Or the tuner is just being way too conservative due to the 91 fuel?

thanks again.

502Bill

Could be a combination of a few things, but I suspect a conservative tune due to the fuel. My waste gates had to be adjusted differently than stock. You will need to run colder plugs if you are turning up the boost as well.

If the car sits for 30 days, or it becomes very cold outside it becomes harder to start a car on E85. Ethanol will cause seals to swell if left unchecked for a period of time. That is why a system flush with gas will help lubricate everything and keep it flowing as intended. You will have to speak with a tuner on how to best accomplish this. Not sure the specific limitations on our cars, but in past experience boost would only rise based on percentage of ethanol in the fuel. Im sure you could run E85 without a flex sensor, but then you have no option if you get stuck in a “food desert”

will11

Meth bung charge pipes

srO_Michael_Orz

Forget about all those charge pipe before intercooler. Its so gay....Better spary after intercooler.
Just drill and tap 1/8 NTP at the adapter right before throttle. they are removeable and accessible from underneath the car. (Driver side has less room,but you still can do it without take it out.) That how I DIY my Meth injection nozzle places.
BTW we run Pure900 +WMI without HPFP 800WHP, With Spool HPFP blend E50. Making almost 900WHP. No issuses.

kumizi

If you're going to do E85, you dont need meth.

Also if you're going to do E85, I dont know if the stock ECU is capable of handling a flex fuel tune. The fact that Golabworx didnt mention getting a flex fuel kit probably means it's a no go. That's the proper way to do E85 if you're getting your gas from a pump with varying percentages of ethanol at different times of the year.

Otherwise, you will have to tune for something like E70 and test each batch of gas to make sure you're not getting bad gas. Not really worth the headache IMO and you're asking for trouble.

realien

I ran E85 on my Nissan GTR, it's very common on that platform (was good for about 50 - 75hp), new pumps and baskets, new injectors, stock rails, and the Octane monitor sent its output to the ECU, so the ECU adjusted fuel/timing based on ethanol content. (ECUTEK). Maybe Eurocharged can do something like this ?

I also flushed with regular gas every 4th fillup, a few guys had the o-rings on the injectors pop out if they ran E85 all the time. It may be cheaper but it sure does burn fast, I was getting about 12 to the gallon on E85 vs about 20 on 93, but I did have an enthusiastic foot I've been meaning to get treatment for

Acta_Non_Verba

Yeah, the tune challenges with Ethanol come from it's stoichiometric ratio which is 9.0:1 compared to gasoline which is 14.7:1. E85 blend is about 9.8:1 so in order to get fuel trims to work outrunning E85 you cannot do it w/o flex fuel kit.

The octane rating of ethanol is where the gold is (about 108 octane), but it's at the expense of burning a whole lotta more fuel.

Another thing - the stations that sell E85 around me are never E85, but more like E65/E70.

realien

Yeah I had the fuel kit with the monitor and the ECU input, I could also hijack the gauges on the dashboard to display the ethanol content. We have a lot of E85 here, but with my GTS being RWD compared to AWD I'm not sure I need more HP over the Eurocharged stages II tune

Bijan Kohan

I appreciate the input. Along with the XDI HPFP’s I’m also installing a ethanol content gauge to show me the real ethanol content every time I fuel up. I need to have an E85 tune along with something less aggressive like a E60 tune so I can switch from my handheld when necessary. I know that’s the annoying part.

By the way, I have a United Oils gas station minutes from my home that carries E85 fuel from “Pearson Fuels”. Anyone have experience with them? I actually called them and they explained how they take great care into offering the highest quality E85 fuel and how it’s usually always E80 or more. As a disclaimer on the actual pump there is a note stating it can vary anywhere from e51 to e83.

I am not installing a meth system anymore or fuel rails.

Golabworx did not tell me I should get a flex fuel sensor either. Do I really need one if I have the ethanol content gauge?

What other types of trouble would I be running into by running E85 in my car? Any input is appreciated.



thanks for the support.

Bijan Kohan

Whats included in a flex fuel kit and who makes one for our setup?

Acta_Non_Verba

Bijan,

I do not know. I am too new on this platform. Typically you install a flex fuel sensor in the fuel line. It measures the alcohol content passing through it. It sends a variable voltage output (1-5v) and (but) the EMS and the ECU has to have the platform to support flex and to allow the tuner to set up variable fueling to accommodate the variances in Stoichiometric rates in the blends that might be passing through it. It is important a tuner knows what they're doing.

Here is a quote, from 502bill above, that I will strongly second:
Lastly on this post, consider the tuner. Do they have experience with this platform and the mods you want to use? Don't be the guinea pig when it comes to this car. The platform is strong but a poor tune will turn this engine into an expensive paper weight. This isn't a plug for Eurocharged, but they have tuned every combination currently available. They also provide a 2 year warranty on both their box tunes or custom. I believe a custom tune for your application is worth the piece of mind.