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I rented a 992-generation Porsche 911 Carrera S for a day back when I was shopping sports cars. I was completely blown away at how the 992 was fantastic at just about everything: It's a master of daily driving, highway blasting, drag launches and canyon runs. (Full writeup with pictures here.)
My shopping ultimately put me in my (used) AMG GT S, mostly because it was significantly cheaper than the 992. I'm happy with the result -- the AMG has even better steering, more constant "let's go!" attitude and killer looks -- but I do think back to that 992 often. I do miss the more comfortable Porsche seats and suspension, and I think Porsche is flat-out lying with the 443 hp power rating. (It feels faster than my 503 hp GT S.)
Have any of you all owned both a 992 and an AMG GT? What were your pros and cons on the two?
I own a GTC coupe. In the summer of 2021, I test drove a 992. On my way to the dealership, I thought that I would fall in love with the 992, and consider a manual cabrio as the perfect complement to my GTC (which I love).
Being fully honest - I thought the 992 was a bore. I was completely underwhelmed. I still cannot believe that I returned it early. The salesperson knows me well, and told me to take out the 992 for as long as I wanted (he’s given me cars for the weekend before). I drove the 992 on the highway and side roads for about 20-30 minutes, max. Then returned it. Immediately, I loved the GTC.
Perhaps it’s because it was a base 992 and the GTC has considerably more power. But still, even a base 992 should be exciting to drive!
Overall, the 992 lacked emotion. It was fast and smooth, but not nearly as raw and involving as the GTC (and I don’t even consider the GTC to be “raw”). For example, I love how on the GTC you can feel the gear changes, and hear them (with the transmission right behind you).
Interior of the 992 I think is very lame. I’m thoroughly unimpressed. The leather is soft, sure, but it’s very thin. The black plastic trim around the gear shift will scratch right away, and it cannot be replaced with metal or carbon. Other bits can, of course, but there is always a gloss black trim where the heated seat controls are that cannot be replaced. On the GT, you can get aluminium instead of black plastic.
Perhaps I’m just OCD, but the fact that 40% of the instrument dials are blocked by the steering wheel of the 992 is ridiculous! How is this a “driver’s car” if you can’t see about half the dials without craning and turning your head?
Finally, I don’t love the direction Porsche is taking with the 911s - every generation is further from the ethos of the car. Every gen is longer, wider, fatter, with more electronic tricks you don’t need: Exhibit A: microphones in the wheel wells that detect if it’s raining, and then turn on the wipers and switch to rain mode — I think as an enthusiast driver, I can tell when it’s raining!
@Surge My sense with the 992 was that they were trying to really make a dual-nature car, one that calms down quite a bit in town but has surprising speed and capability when you're flogging it. At least that's what I attributed the lesser emotion of the 992 in slow driving to. I completely agree that the AMG GT has more fizz even when driving slow!
> I think as an enthusiast driver, I can tell when it’s raining!
@Surge My sense with the 992 was that they were trying to really make a dual-nature car, one that calms down quite a bit in town but has surprising speed and capability when you're flogging it. At least that's what I attributed the lesser emotion of the 992 in slow driving to. I completely agree that the AMG GT has more fizz even when driving slow!
> I think as an enthusiast driver, I can tell when it’s raining!
Good points. I agree, I think Porsche is confused about the 992’s objectives. Is a GT or a real sports car? Perhaps there are significant enough differences among the models. Again, I only drove a 992 Carrera.
I think AMG nailed it with the GT in this regard. It’s more sports car, some would say “super car”, than GT. It’s squarely where the 911 was, prior to the 992.
In 2019 I drove a 991.2 911 T which I Loved! Very very different feeling - much louder exhaust, the engine vibrations, the way the power was put down, it felt much more like a “proper” 911.
And when the “rain microphone” is one of the main new technologies they tout at launch, you know something is wrong.
I had a 992 C4S and recently sold it. I also have a 2020 GTR and have a 992 GT3 on order. My 992 was the biggest disappointment in a new car that I have owned. It was my first modern day Porsche and was really excited about having one in the garage. There are some things about the car which I really did and did not like. Mine must have been built on a Friday the 13th, under a full moon and after a week of drinking at Oktoberfest. It was just cursed from the first day.
Way too many electrical gremlins that could never be explained. Simple as a seat belt or air bag warning light coming on for the passenger seat after driving down the highway for 90 minutes with nobody sitting in it. The list goes on and on.
Steel brake rotors. The would rust up at the forecast of rain. Was a major PIA to try to keep my black wheels cleaned. I would wash the car, detail the wheels and then move it 30 feet back in the garage and have to clean the wheels again from how quick they rusted up.
Service issues. I took it in for the first service because of age, not mileage. Was informed that there were 9 open recalls on the 11 months that I owned it. Almost one a month since purchasing. There where two big recalls in which they had to drop the engine and rear diff and then also replace the front diff. Basically the entire driveline of the car had to be pulled out and parts including motor mounts replaced. The service advisor told me the parts bill alone was almost $15k. Speakers had to be replaced which is common issue, shift lever was starting to crack. The automatic door unlock system never worked and when it did, it would about take your finger tips off.
No storage space or drink holders. Just a little square area in the console that would somewhat fit a phone unless you needed to put the cupholder in it for your drink.
Performance was great, especially liked the all wheel drive capabilities.
Exhaust sound was pretty good but nothing like the GTR
Luggage and interior space was pretty good as compared to the AMG
Nice every day car if you wanted it for that reason....which was not my purpose. Hence the GTR and also the GT3 on order. Just looking for something more hardcore for the purpose that these have in my garage.
The car looked incredible and loved looking out the sideview at the wide rear hips.
I will see how I like the GT3 when it finally comes in. Hopefully all the first year gremlins will have been worked out by then.
I feel that most of the non-GT 911s kinda drive/look the same tbh albeit the slight differences in look/performance and color wheel caps. I had a 991.1 GTS. Still have my 991 GT3. And I drove a 992 S for a month old road-trip EU (you can rent them through Porsche). Feels a little more disconnected compared to a 991 (.1 or .2). If you're keen to get aa 911, look for a 991. Plus you get most of the analog gauges in the 991.
You won't see @mathechr 's comments on Rennlist! Maybe he/she did share these there, but generally it's just a love fest.
I owned a 2009 (brand new at the time) Boxster. Loved it. But it had more problems than all 5 of my Mercedes put together. It wasn't a "lemon" but it had something every few months - check engine light, oil leak, coolant leak, burned out bulbs -- again, the car was brand new. I only owned it 2-3 years.
You won't see @mathechr 's comments on Rennlist! Maybe he/she did share these there, but generally it's just a love fest.
I owned a 2009 (brand new at the time) Boxster. Loved it. But it had more problems than all 5 of my Mercedes put together. It wasn't a "lemon" but it had something every few months - check engine light, oil leak, coolant leak, burned out bulbs -- again, the car was brand new. I only owned it 2-3 years.
Pretty sure that I did post on Rennlist about it at some point. I do agree with point though about the love fest. My 992 was just a mess and must have been used for new hire orientation on the assembly line. I am sure the one before and the one after it didn't have all the issues that I had. I just have that type of luck with things.
I was a manufacturing engineer at Toyota in Japan early in my career. What I try to convey to auto enthusiasts today when it comes to reliability is that there is essentially no gap between brands anymore. They all use the same (small) supply base. For example, the AC compressor in my C63 507 was from Denso in Japan. Toyota brought all major suppliers up to their level of quality over the past 3+ decades. So there is inherently no reliability difference, especially among German brands.
Where differences do occur is when manufacturers cut costs or rush a product to market. Porsche is owned by VW. I don't think anyone knows how many underlying parts in the 911 are from the VW parts bin -- probably quite a few. VW openly said they are seeking to cut costs by rationalizing components when they fully acquired Porsche.
The nice thing about Mercedes is there are no 'sub-brands' (other than Smart). And having owned two B250s, they are built to a standard of an S-Class, not the other way around.
The other difference comes from lack of engineering (either due to time, budget, or employee talent). My 2011 Lexus (new at the time) had major engineering flaws, which impacted safety. The car was reliable, but due to certain designed-in errors, I would not say it was of high quality or that safe.
Finally, certain models are more complex than others. The 992 likely is more complex than the AMG GT. Each component has its own probability of failure. The more components you have, the higher the risk of any one of them to fail. Hence the "rain microphone" - one more thing to fail. What does that look like - do the wipers come on for no reason? Does it enter Comfort mode for no reason?
I'm also not clear how Porsche manages the CAN Bus and internal wiring. It may be more prone to problems than how MB does it.
911 GT3 - I'm sure it's a great car. I was set to buy a 991.2 GT3 Touring, but I just couldn't put up with the dealership BS. I knew the dealership owner through a mutual friend. He said he would "try" to get me an allocation.
Porsche officially says "anyone who wants one and is a true enthusiast will get one". That's more BS.
In the end, most GT3 allocations go to flippers. In the summer of 2019, after deliveries of the GT3 had started in N. America, there were no fewer than 32 GT3s on Autotrader in Canada. I don't know what the total allocation was for Canada, but I bet that with dealers getting a handful each, and with only about 10 dealers, that's more than half of the total - being flipped within a few months. This, despite the attestation made by owners that they won't flip.
Dealers of course condone and enable this, since they make a killing, twice, within a few months.
I just find it so LAME. I was reminded of this when I heard Jay Leno talk about why he doesn't own any Ferraris, watch here:
I've been fantasizing about owning a Porsche ever since when I couldn't afford to buy one as a teen in the late 1970's up to as recently as the pre Nasdaq plunge. But having test driven many different 911 iterations over the years, I can honestly say the only one that truly moved me emotionally was the model with the pedals anchored to the floor, whichever that particular model was designated. Everything after that has been uninspiring. They do look great, masculine and aggressive, but they just don't move me enough to part with a large chunk of cash, specially now. Add to that the elitist attitude of some dealers which are apparently getting away with charging up to $25k ADM if you're lucky enough to even be invited to purchase one, and the nickle and dime optioning configurator inflicted on a prospective purchaser to actually spec a car, just doesn't sit will.
I'll be in the market for a new AMG V8 when they become available again to replace my lowly, but lovely 2019 C43 Coupe.
I've been fantasizing about owning a Porsche ever since when I couldn't afford to buy one as a teen in the late 1970's up to as recently as the pre Nasdaq plunge. But having test driven many different 911 iterations over the years, I can honestly say the only one that truly moved me emotionally was the model with the pedals anchored to the floor, whichever that particular model was designated. Everything after that has been uninspiring. They do look great, masculine and aggressive, but they just don't move me enough to part with a large chunk of cash, specially now. Add to that the elitist attitude of some dealers which are apparently getting away with charging up to $25k ADM if you're lucky enough to even be invited to purchase one, and the nickle and dime optioning configurator inflicted on a prospective purchaser to actually spec a car, just doesn't sit will.
I'll be in the market for a new AMG V8 when they become available again to replace my lowly, but lovely 2019 C43 Coupe.
You think 25K ADM is bad there are FORD dealers charging up to 50K on GT-500s,lol
I owned a 2021 C2 for a few months. I couldn't get an allocation for an S at the time. Regretted it. The car is an amazing car, and I think I would have been happier with the S. I sold that car and would up with 2020 GT. Absolutely love this car. In my experience, the 911 and GT compare nicely, but at the same time different driving experiences. If money were no consideration, I'd have one of each.
I owned a 2021 C2 for a few months. I couldn't get an allocation for an S at the time. Regretted it. The car is an amazing car, and I think I would have been happier with the S. I sold that car and would up with 2020 GT. Absolutely love this car. In my experience, the 911 and GT compare nicely, but at the same time different driving experiences. If money were no consideration, I'd have one of each.
Mostly the speed and sound. I have owned a 991 S, and a 991.1 GT3. There is certainly nothing wrong with the base 911. It's amazing, just wasn't quite what I was looking for. For what it's worth, the 911 is my favorite sports car.
I've been fantasizing about owning a Porsche ever since when I couldn't afford to buy one as a teen in the late 1970's up to as recently as the pre Nasdaq plunge. But having test driven many different 911 iterations over the years, I can honestly say the only one that truly moved me emotionally was the model with the pedals anchored to the floor, whichever that particular model was designated. Everything after that has been uninspiring. They do look great, masculine and aggressive, but they just don't move me enough to part with a large chunk of cash, specially now. Add to that the elitist attitude of some dealers which are apparently getting away with charging up to $25k ADM if you're lucky enough to even be invited to purchase one, and the nickle and dime optioning configurator inflicted on a prospective purchaser to actually spec a car, just doesn't sit will.
I'll be in the market for a new AMG V8 when they become available again to replace my lowly, but lovely 2019 C43 Coupe.
Hmmmm, try shopping for a G550 or G63. $150k over....
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
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Anyone own a Porsche 992 and AMG GT?
