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I have been tracking my 2016 GT-S since I bought it in 2015, and have only used the OEM iron disks from Brembo. Brembo makes the rotrs for Mercedes and they are inexpensive.
The rotors for the GT-S and GT-R are the same 390 mm rotors, Brembo model 09.9313.33 and can often be had for less than $350 each, and with some brake cooling they last fairly long, and since they are so cheap to replace, I always have a spare set in the garage. ear rotors last a super long time, so while they are quite a bit more expensive, the running cost is very low. For pads in the front I use pads from a Nissan GT-R which fit fine, usually DTC60 or 70 compound, and for rear pads I get them custom made in the same compound by contacting Porterfield. As others have said car needs brake cooling, but I only have that in the front as I have not had issues with rapid brake wear in the rear.
For tires I have run Sport Cups, Nitto NT01's, Dunlop SP Sport Max Race, and I am now running Goodyear Supercar 3's which are very good on track for a 200 plus street tire. I have 2 sets of spare OEM wheels for the GT-S and always have a fresh set of tires available.
I have seen no need to upgrade to any aftermarket rotors, and I have done a lot of laps.
this is great info as I couldn’t find a part number for a GTS rear rotor!! From what you shared, 09.9313.33 is front rotors and I found on the brembow website that 09.B879.11 is the rears. I found a website that has them for $125 a pop, (fronts are about $500 each) does that sound right? I can’t believe when I put in the part number from MB, they were about 1k per rear rotor.
Brembo 09.B879.11 is rear 360mm x 26mm non floating disc (stock on GT)
Brembo 09.C128.33 is rear 360mm x 26mm with floating disc. (stock on GTS/GTC/GTR)
Best regards
Stenzel
thanks Stenzel. I think that’s where my confusion comes in. What’s the difference between floating and non floating? It looks like 09.C128.33 I am not able to find being sold online. Am I required to use floating?
As I said in my post, the rear rotor is much more expensive. Mercedes part number is A2224232012 for the Brembo 09.c128.33.
typical best price is $600 each but you hardly ever need to replace them.
Got it. I spent the last hour trying to find the rears for a price close to $600 but best I’m seeing is $1k. Perhaps the price has gone up since you bought them last
Anyone know how hard the CCB rotors wear from track use?
After doing extensive research (as in "Googling"), I came to the conclusion that there is no real/reliable data that indicates how CCB rotors wear with track-day use (and here I'm talking about the types of CCB rotors used in more recent AMG, Porsche, Audi, Corvettes and other vehicles ... there are other/older-deslgn types that degrade differently, but I'm talking about ones that have the factory-stamped wear-indicator numbers for use with the Proceq Carboteq wear analysis tool).
IMO, here's what we do know:
• these CCBs don't normally "wear out" by having their thickness depleted
• these CCBs normally "wear out" by chemical/structural degradation of the carbon fibers, caused by heat
• it's very difficult (time-consuming and expensive) to accurately determine the wear on these CCBs unless you use the Proceq Carboteq tool
• the Proceq Carboteq tool is very expensive
• not knowing that a CCB rotor is "worn out" can be dangerous as it can experience sudden structural failure when braking
• good brake cooling is essential in order to promote longer CCB rotor life during track use
• unless a shop is using a Carboteq too, it's _very_ likely that they will not (even attempt to) accurately determine the wear level on the vehicle's CCBs during a scheduled maintenance
I only found a couple of cases where any actual data was presented related to CCB wear/degradation under track use. In addition to that, there were a handful of anecdotal statements that seemed somewhat credible, but didn't present any data. The sum of those reports would lead one to believe that CCBs will last from 20 to 50 track days ... but that's not something I'd (potentially) "bet my life on."
Since there don't seem to be any at our local dealers (or at least not when I checked), for my own peace of mind, I felt it necessary to purchase a Carboteq tool. My intention is to put up a website where we can capture and report Carboteq readings (vs track usage, etc.) and allow people to contribute. My goal is to enable the community to develop some understanding and predictability regarding CCB rotor wear under track use. As such, I'll take the tool to track days and try to gather data from other vehicles, as well. I hope to complete the website some time within the next few months.
Got it. I spent the last hour trying to find the rears for a price close to $600 but best I’m seeing is $1k. Perhaps the price has gone up since you bought them last
Not sure where you are looking, but here you go, using the Mercedes part number a2224232012, $550 each
thanks! I usually don’t buy parts off eBay but I can make an exception here. The brand of rotors looks like it coming a seller called top euro machine. Minimal reviews online but those I found are positive. Anyone have experience with them?
The Girodiscs will last alot longer than the stocks from my experience. I've been running cobalt XR1 pads and these are a really aggressive pad. I have no experience running any other pad than stock.
Originally Posted by Pautab1
Really great discussion here. I am planning on changing my rear rotors/pads soon and am looking for a less expensive option. It looks like girodisc is a brand that others are getting. I have 2016 GTS, would these be the the rotors? https://www.girodisc.com/Rear-Rotors...GT_p_6851.html
what would be the best pads with these rotors? I’d be using this for mostly street use but the occasional track day.
After doing extensive research (as in "Googling"), I came to the conclusion that there is no real/reliable data that indicates how CCB rotors wear with track-day use (and here I'm talking about the types of CCB rotors used in more recent AMG, Porsche, Audi, Corvettes and other vehicles ... there are other/older-deslgn types that degrade differently, but I'm talking about ones that have the factory-stamped wear-indicator numbers for use with the Proceq Carboteq wear analysis tool).
IMO, here's what we do know:
• these CCBs don't normally "wear out" by having their thickness depleted
• these CCBs normally "wear out" by chemical/structural degradation of the carbon fibers, caused by heat
• it's very difficult (time-consuming and expensive) to accurately determine the wear on these CCBs unless you use the Proceq Carboteq tool
• the Proceq Carboteq tool is very expensive
• not knowing that a CCB rotor is "worn out" can be dangerous as it can experience sudden structural failure when braking
• good brake cooling is essential in order to promote longer CCB rotor life during track use
• unless a shop is using a Carboteq too, it's _very_ likely that they will not (even attempt to) accurately determine the wear level on the vehicle's CCBs during a scheduled maintenance
I only found a couple of cases where any actual data was presented related to CCB wear/degradation under track use. In addition to that, there were a handful of anecdotal statements that seemed somewhat credible, but didn't present any data. The sum of those reports would lead one to believe that CCBs will last from 20 to 50 track days ... but that's not something I'd (potentially) "bet my life on."
Since there don't seem to be any at our local dealers (or at least not when I checked), for my own peace of mind, I felt it necessary to purchase a Carboteq tool. My intention is to put up a website where we can capture and report Carboteq readings (vs track usage, etc.) and allow people to contribute. My goal is to enable the community to develop some understanding and predictability regarding CCB rotor wear under track use. As such, I'll take the tool to track days and try to gather data from other vehicles, as well. I hope to complete the website some time within the next few months.
As an additional note for on track performance of the AMG CCB system, the biggest issues that I had were with the standard CCB street pads. They never seemed to hold up to the extreme temps that can be generated on track. The result would be melting the pad material onto the face of the rotor. I will see if I can dig up some old pictures before I stopped tracking stock pads with CCB rotors.
I have been tracking my pro for the past 1.5 years and had about 15 days - all on stock CCB and pads (the pro's stock pads are all pagid FWIW). I do have both the TIKT front/rear duct.
My experience with the merc CCB is actually more than just happy - the fronts last about 4 days and the rears around 3 days. I use endless 650 fluid and bleed before every day and flush after 6 days. The brakes had very reasonable wear so far and I liked the performance (20 mins session usually). I run with advance groups here across different organizations, and have decent lap times (1:35 at Laguna Seca, 1:46 at Sonoma Raceway and 1:54 at Thunderhill East) so not exactly slow. I think the key to the CCB is brake cooling, as long as you have the right cooling done, I felt that the CCB can make it out 2 seasons easily, and economically might not actually make that much of a difference - but have a huge advantage of low dust.
As an additional note for on track performance of the AMG CCB system, the biggest issues that I had were with the standard CCB street pads. They never seemed to hold up to the extreme temps that can be generated on track. The result would be melting the pad material onto the face of the rotor. I will see if I can dig up some old pictures before I stopped tracking stock pads with CCB rotors.
I got the TiKT/Pagid pads for both front 'n rear when I ordered their brake-cooling ducts. I've only had six 20-min track sessions (on a track that's brutal on brakes), but indications are that they're holding up well since there's too little wear to measure reliably.
Since I don't drive the GTR Pro much on the street, I'm just leaving the full-race pads in. Braking seems fine, though I've not driven the car in temps below about 5 deg C (~40 deg F). Sometimes makes interesting (howl like banshee) noises during stops, but an aggressive stop cures that (for a while). Don't know what the stock pads do, but these pads yield a pretty consistent 1G braking at 50% brake pedal indication on the dynamic display (on dry roads, of course ... that's 1G is well beyond the wet-traction capability of the Cup 2 tires).
On the street the CCB's last a really long time and with stock pads make little noise and little brake dust.
On the track, as with everything else, keeping temps down is always a good thing.
A bunch of you have gone the way of fluid, pads and cooling ducts and this is a must for anyone that is going to track these toys on a regular basis.
In my opinion, the real issue is tracking your stock CCB's without having much experience. These cars are so quick on track that novice drivers tend to over use their brakes, brake for long periods and don't properly cool them down after sessions. All part of a recipe for disappointment. You can easily cook a set of stock CCB's in a day.
I can't remember the exact number I heard from my dealer, but I think it was like 15K to replace all of the rotors if you needed to. Not a surprise anyone wants.
... I felt that the CCB can make it out 2 seasons easily, and economically might not actually make that much of a difference - but have a huge advantage of low dust.
Not to mention the significantly reduced (unsprung) weight
Have you had any wear measurements done on your rotors? It'd be _very_ interesting to get some actual data on how much they've structurally degraded, as 15 track days is a significant number and would provide some meaningful data. It's also enough usage that I'd definitely _want_ a proper wear evaluation, for safety.
Note that the wear-indicator method specified in WIS is, IMO, virtually useless as it's not rigorously specified and is almost completely open to a highly subjective interpretation (I can back this up, if anyone cares). The only reliable eval method, other than the Carboteq tool, is a rotor removal and weighing process but that has to be meticulously done and is quite time consuming (read ... I'd bet won't be done by a shop during normal maintenance without significant additional charges). I suspect that most shops think "these things will last for 100K mi or so, so unless they're visibly chipped/damaged, no need to worry" ... forgetting that track use is a completely different story.
Not to mention the significantly reduced (unsprung) weight
Have you had any wear measurements done on your rotors? It'd be _very_ interesting to get some actual data on how much they've structurally degraded, as 15 track days is a significant number and would provide some meaningful data. It's also enough usage that I'd definitely _want_ a proper wear evaluation, for safety.
Note that the wear-indicator method specified in WIS is, IMO, virtually useless as it's not rigorously specified and is almost completely open to a highly subjective interpretation (I can back this up, if anyone cares). The only reliable eval method, other than the Carboteq tool, is a rotor removal and weighing process but that has to be meticulously done and is quite time consuming (read ... I'd bet won't be done by a shop during normal maintenance without significant additional charges). I suspect that most shops think "these things will last for 100K mi or so, so unless they're visibly chipped/damaged, no need to worry" ... forgetting that track use is a completely different story.
I have a precision scale at home and do plan to weight it myself - the rotor removal is actually not that hard (very easy for the fronts, a bit harder for the rears) - I do plan to weight them in after the next few track days, will report back.
I have been tracking my pro for the past 1.5 years and had about 15 days - all on stock CCB and pads (the pro's stock pads are all pagid FWIW). I do have both the TIKT front/rear duct.
My experience with the merc CCB is actually more than just happy - the fronts last about 4 days and the rears around 3 days. I use endless 650 fluid and bleed before every day and flush after 6 days. The brakes had very reasonable wear so far and I liked the performance (20 mins session usually). I run with advance groups here across different organizations, and have decent lap times (1:35 at Laguna Seca, 1:46 at Sonoma Raceway and 1:54 at Thunderhill East) so not exactly slow. I think the key to the CCB is brake cooling, as long as you have the right cooling done, I felt that the CCB can make it out 2 seasons easily, and economically might not actually make that much of a difference - but have a huge advantage of low dust.
Very interesting to hear because I have same car. Do you think that the Pro stock pads actually could be rebadged RSC1 since they are all Pagid? From Pagid point of view it makes no sense making a special compound for 750 cars only.... Not much business in that. How would you compare the front stock cooling ducts to the Tikt? I have been looking at the stock cooling ducts and IMHO the setup doesn't look that bad at all, one duct leading air to disc and one duct to caliper. In rear however I have mounted extra cooling ducts from Ansix Auto. See pictures.
from their website they specialize in exotic vehicles and say “TopEuro Original Brake Rotors are precisely manufactured from the highest quality OEM specifications, surpassing even ECE-R90 standards”
The rep on the phone shared with me that they are manufactured in Europe and have a 6 month warranty. Other than positive eBay feedback, there wasn’t too much feedback on the company. However, In doing some research they have a sister company by the name of alpine performance in FL that have gotten positive reviews. They’ll arrive in a few days so lets see how the quality is. If good, it’s another option for those with a GTS running non ceramic brakes
looks they these pads are good for the street and OK for the occasional track day. I don’t need anything too aggressive as I will prob only go to the track once this year so these should fair nicely
I have a precision scale at home and do plan to weight it myself - the rotor removal is actually not that hard (very easy for the fronts, a bit harder for the rears) - I do plan to weight them in after the next few track days, will report back.
That'd be great, especially if you can figure out and report the related track time. You likely know this, but the rotors need to be meticulously cleaned and fully dried as the weight difference is quite small so contamination/moisture can easily upset accuracy.
Very interesting to hear because I have same car. Do you think that the Pro stock pads actually could be rebadged RSC1 since they are all Pagid? From Pagid point of view it makes no sense making a special compound for 750 cars only.... Not much business in that. How would you compare the front stock cooling ducts to the Tikt? I have been looking at the stock cooling ducts and IMHO the setup doesn't look that bad at all, one duct leading air to disc and one duct to caliper. In rear however I have mounted extra cooling ducts from Ansix Auto. See pictures.
The TIKT duct is definitely much, much better than the stock pro duct. The TIKT duct covers the surface of the disc so the air flow is directed to the center of the disc then vent out via the disc itself for cooling.
I'm not sure if the stock pagids are actually RSC1 but it think there is a high likelyhood that the compounds are similar. Personally I have no complains about the stock pads at all when proper cooling is done.
Regarding brake ducts, I am only seeing GTR kits available on TIKT and Renntech. Will those fit a GTS?
I installed the AnsixAuto ducts in the front of my GTS. Two weeks ago I went to Barber Motorsports park in Birmingham Al. I was using stock brakes, pads, and fluid and had zero brake fade for the weekend. I plan on changing the fluid before my next track day. I am a (green) novice, so I would assume I am not getting the brakes as hot as some of the experts but it was very impressed with how well the cheap ducts worked.
I installed the AnsixAuto ducts in the front of my GTS. Two weeks ago I went to Barber Motorsports park in Birmingham Al. I was using stock brakes, pads, and fluid and had zero brake fade for the weekend. I plan on changing the fluid before my next track day. I am a (green) novice, so I would assume I am not getting the brakes as hot as some of the experts but it was very impressed with how well the cheap ducts worked.
Have you tracked the car without the duct brakes before? Curious if you could get away with tracking the car once or twice if your a novice with installing the ducts. To your point I don’t think you’d be getting the brakes as hot as some of the expert drivers
Have you tracked the car without the duct brakes before? Curious if you could get away with tracking the car once or twice if your a novice with installing the ducts. To your point I don’t think you’d be getting the brakes as hot as some of the expert drivers
No. I would think it helps a lot but not nearly as good as Tikt or Renntech. Barber is a technical track with less speed but more turns. A WRX STI, in front of me, boiled his brake fluid and lost brakes. Went into the gravel. If I start tracking the car a lot, I will upgrade to Tikt.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
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