Affordable tracking of your GT
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
Likes: 8
Mercedes-AMG GTR PRO
No. I would think it helps a lot but not nearly as good as Tikt or Renntech. Barber is a technical track with less speed but more turns. A WRX STI, in front of me, boiled his brake fluid and lost brakes. Went into the gravel. If I start tracking the car a lot, I will upgrade to Tikt.
I am no expert but just curious to understand.
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 64
Likes: 28
From: Birmingham, AL
AMG GTs, G550, CLK430, Audi A3 avant, 78 Bronco
How can we say that the Renntech front ducts is much better than Ansixauto or OEM? From pictures I have seen they are all quite similar in design with ducts that leads cold air against disc and caliper. Tikt is a complete different and closed design, maybe F1 inspired, which covers the whole disc.
I am no expert but just curious to understand.
I am no expert but just curious to understand.
I am only going by the pictures.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 208
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Winnebago, Yugo
I just got my PRO back from the dealership from a spring oil change + brake flush and few other things.
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
Last edited by canucklehead; Mar 31, 2022 at 03:00 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 55
2020 AMG GT R Pro
I just got my PRO back from the dealership from a spring oil change + brake flush and few other things.
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
Could you also share what do they mean by procedure of reading the wear indicators?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 208
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Winnebago, Yugo
Did the dealership use a Carboteq tool to check the wear or they simply look at the wear indicator? Did they clean and weight the rotor as well? I wouldn't trust the result if they have not perform either Carboteq tool nor weighting the rotors.
Could you also share what do they mean by procedure of reading the wear indicators?
Could you also share what do they mean by procedure of reading the wear indicators?
They did not check using the tool or weighing the rotors.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1,007
From: Overland Park, KS
‘24 BMW iX M60
I just got my PRO back from the dealership from a spring oil change + brake flush and few other things.
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
I had them check the wear on the CCBs.
Based on reading the wear indicators, they are saying the rotors are worn and need to be replaced.
But then I have know for some time those little indicators look the way they do.
Dealership sent me the procedure for reading the wear indicators.
This past winter I have been looking into alternatives, trying to anticipate this day. Looking at an AP Racing option, Girodisc and also companies that resurface CC rotors.
A few of the Porsche guys at my track have been resurfacing their CC rotors. But those are not OEM rotors and sold from the same company that does the resurfacing.
I did locate a company that resurfaces OEM MB CC rotors. So I will be giving them a call. But for now it looks like I will be going with Girodiscs.
If I count up all the track days on the car, it is about 20 (~120 twenty minute sessions) days and I am on my 3rd set of pads. I was quoted $26,000 CAD to replace the rotors through the dealership
I am incredibly surprised that after this many years APR Racing does not have a replacement system for the GT series of cars, as IMHO it is the go to system for any serious track user.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 26
Likes: 8
2DoorCoupe
Any other track day-ers replacing CCB after ~20 track days?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 508
*
And here's a paper I wrote on this topic. IMO, the WIS process that uses the wear indicators is essentially useless. The attached paper provides my reasoning.
If you felt like a drive to the greater Vancouver area, I'd be happy to give you a Carboteq reading. #;-))
If you felt like a drive to the greater Vancouver area, I'd be happy to give you a Carboteq reading. #;-))
Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 55
2020 AMG GT R Pro
Curious to ask, what is the data trend shown on the rotor of your car since the time the paper was written? was it a linear progression or the degradation slows down for latter track days?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 208
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Winnebago, Yugo
Have you had aftermarket brake ducts say from Tikt on the car since almost new, or just using the OEM ‘ducts’?
I am incredibly surprised that after this many years APR Racing does not have a replacement system for the GT series of cars, as IMHO it is the go to system for any serious track user.
I am incredibly surprised that after this many years APR Racing does not have a replacement system for the GT series of cars, as IMHO it is the go to system for any serious track user.
Also, to note I cooked the first set of pads and they were replaced on warranty after the fourth day as I recall.
And if I am brutally honest those first four track days, the car was flogged pretty hard. I let a friend who is a track instructor take the car out for several laps on the first track day and he did not hold back. So there's that...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1,007
From: Overland Park, KS
‘24 BMW iX M60
Out of the 20 track days I had the ducts on for 10 days.
Also, to note I cooked the first set of pads and they were replaced on warranty after the fourth day as I recall.
And if I am brutally honest those first four track days, the car was flogged pretty hard. I let a friend who is a track instructor take the car out for several laps on the first track day and he did not hold back. So there's that...
Also, to note I cooked the first set of pads and they were replaced on warranty after the fourth day as I recall.
And if I am brutally honest those first four track days, the car was flogged pretty hard. I let a friend who is a track instructor take the car out for several laps on the first track day and he did not hold back. So there's that...
I would take the rotors off and get them weighed. CCBs oxidise from excess heat and that is what degrades them. If there’s no obvious accidental damage to a specific rotor and the weight of them are within spec I’d keep using them assuming your brakes are still operating well.
Edit: Apparently the Carboteq manufacturer states that their tool whereby the rotor is ‘measured’ at three distinct areas is 40X more accurate than weighing the rotor, so if accurate it seems to be the way to go.
Last edited by thebishman; Apr 2, 2022 at 04:49 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 508
*
My long-term intention/desire is to help this community build an understanding of how these CCB rotors wear with track use. Hope to have a website up within a few months so we can capture/report any data that people want to contribute. I think it's an important issue ... though, as the discussion about the number of AMG/GT's that are(n't) tracked would imply, it's likely of interest to more Porsche owners.
Note that, since the CCB rotors, as a part, are around $5K (CAD), even if you get 40 track days from a set, that's still $500/track day (just for the rotor part cost). And I thought my son's heli-skiing fun was expensive. $;-)
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 236
Likes: 81
Fast and Really Fast Sports Cars
What vehicles do you recommend over GT variants and why?
I've been tracking a M4 for the last four years and its been very reliable and low cost. Nittos, Pagids, fuel and brake fluid.
I'm also considering tracking a GTR but I got a really bad feeling about it when I read that Bish sold his GTR. My friends all drive Porsches and I must make amends. GTR can't compete on weight, hoping to make up with power and handling.
I've been tracking a M4 for the last four years and its been very reliable and low cost. Nittos, Pagids, fuel and brake fluid.
I'm also considering tracking a GTR but I got a really bad feeling about it when I read that Bish sold his GTR. My friends all drive Porsches and I must make amends. GTR can't compete on weight, hoping to make up with power and handling.
I have tracked heavily (and competed): E36 M3, E46 M3/330/325, E87 135, E90 M3, F82 M4, 991 GT3, 997 GT3. Other cars I tracked for fun include Mc 570s, 981 GT4, R8 LMS, 458 GT3, Atom, S2000, Miata and a plethora of other cars including, of course, my GT R.
The BMW platform is pretty a good track car dollar wise and it is versatile. You rarely had to do much to get it track ready.
I just wouldn't see GT R as the first car to take to the track if I have another choice and I do. Don't get me wrong. With the right setup, I know it can kick some major butts on the track. To me, what threw me off when I tracked mine, the brakes didn't hold up as well as they should (from factory). Yeah I know tikt/renntech/rbf600/track pads etc can remedy that. But I didn't have to do that for GT3, 570s, or even the S2000!
That said, I do think it's absolutely ok to track the GT R for fun: 2 to 4 times a year and lap times don't really matter. But when you start driving 10/10 all the time and getting competitive at lapping days, it can really *bite*. YMMV.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 26
Likes: 8
2DoorCoupe
Pardon the late reply. Though I had subscribed.
I have tracked heavily (and competed): E36 M3, E46 M3/330/325, E87 135, E90 M3, F82 M4, 991 GT3, 997 GT3. Other cars I tracked for fun include Mc 570s, 981 GT4, R8 LMS, 458 GT3, Atom, S2000, Miata and a plethora of other cars including, of course, my GT R.
The BMW platform is pretty a good track car dollar wise and it is versatile. You rarely had to do much to get it track ready.
I just wouldn't see GT R as the first car to take to the track if I have another choice and I do. Don't get me wrong. With the right setup, I know it can kick some major butts on the track. To me, what threw me off when I tracked mine, the brakes didn't hold up as well as they should (from factory). Yeah I know tikt/renntech/rbf600/track pads etc can remedy that. But I didn't have to do that for GT3, 570s, or even the S2000!
That said, I do think it's absolutely ok to track the GT R for fun: 2 to 4 times a year and lap times don't really matter. But when you start driving 10/10 all the time and getting competitive at lapping days, it can really *bite*. YMMV.
I have tracked heavily (and competed): E36 M3, E46 M3/330/325, E87 135, E90 M3, F82 M4, 991 GT3, 997 GT3. Other cars I tracked for fun include Mc 570s, 981 GT4, R8 LMS, 458 GT3, Atom, S2000, Miata and a plethora of other cars including, of course, my GT R.
The BMW platform is pretty a good track car dollar wise and it is versatile. You rarely had to do much to get it track ready.
I just wouldn't see GT R as the first car to take to the track if I have another choice and I do. Don't get me wrong. With the right setup, I know it can kick some major butts on the track. To me, what threw me off when I tracked mine, the brakes didn't hold up as well as they should (from factory). Yeah I know tikt/renntech/rbf600/track pads etc can remedy that. But I didn't have to do that for GT3, 570s, or even the S2000!
That said, I do think it's absolutely ok to track the GT R for fun: 2 to 4 times a year and lap times don't really matter. But when you start driving 10/10 all the time and getting competitive at lapping days, it can really *bite*. YMMV.
GT3, 570s and S2000 weight is down compared to GTR so easier on brakes/heat. AMG should have gotten brakes on GTR right. No excuses, they know how. I'd pay an extra $10k to not have to F around with aftermarket. If they can charge $8k for paint then they can charge $10k for reliable brakes.
What needs to change about GTR to avoid bite at 10/10?
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 236
Likes: 81
Fast and Really Fast Sports Cars
Thanks for the reply. Impressive record. I'm envious of your time in a R8 LMS. They did very well this weekend at Imola.
GT3, 570s and S2000 weight is down compared to GTR so easier on brakes/heat. AMG should have gotten brakes on GTR right. No excuses, they know how. I'd pay an extra $10k to not have to F around with aftermarket. If they can charge $8k for paint then they can charge $10k for reliable brakes.
What needs to change about GTR to avoid bite at 10/10?
GT3, 570s and S2000 weight is down compared to GTR so easier on brakes/heat. AMG should have gotten brakes on GTR right. No excuses, they know how. I'd pay an extra $10k to not have to F around with aftermarket. If they can charge $8k for paint then they can charge $10k for reliable brakes.
What needs to change about GTR to avoid bite at 10/10?
I would defer your question to the AMG GT track veterans here @user33 @supertanch @MG1422 @thebishman to name a few and their valuable advice shared in this thread and elsewhere on this forum.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 26
Likes: 8
2DoorCoupe
Fanatec GT European Race 1 was at Imola, The Fanatec GT American series has less AMG's and not as interesting.
Valentino Rossi is now transitioned to full time car racing and is driving a R8 LMS. He drove well but made one huge mistake. BTW, what did Ferrari have to do to lose Rossi? Incredible.
I agree, there are few AMGs racing in USA but at least they don't need an FIA waiver and their own class to race competitively.
All the used AMG GT3 race cars are in Europe,UK and Asia. Almost nothing on the used market in USA.
Valentino Rossi is now transitioned to full time car racing and is driving a R8 LMS. He drove well but made one huge mistake. BTW, what did Ferrari have to do to lose Rossi? Incredible.
I agree, there are few AMGs racing in USA but at least they don't need an FIA waiver and their own class to race competitively.
All the used AMG GT3 race cars are in Europe,UK and Asia. Almost nothing on the used market in USA.
Last edited by JackBrickhouse; Apr 6, 2022 at 04:03 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 55
2020 AMG GT R Pro
The Imola race was fantastic, ~50 car field with tons of rubbing actions, truly spectacular. Was rooting for Engel as always but they had a bad day.
Regarding tracking the GTR at 10/10 - technically brake cooling is the only constraint for that. The engine/transmission of these cars are built to withstand the load, but definitely not the brakes due to the weight and lack of cooling. So a cooling duct is a minimal requirement for enjoying pushing the car to the limit.
Regarding tracking the GTR at 10/10 - technically brake cooling is the only constraint for that. The engine/transmission of these cars are built to withstand the load, but definitely not the brakes due to the weight and lack of cooling. So a cooling duct is a minimal requirement for enjoying pushing the car to the limit.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 508
*
I would defer your question to the AMG GT track veterans here @user33 @supertanch @MG1422 @thebishman to name a few and their valuable advice shared in this thread and elsewhere on this forum.
Track Pace seems useless (spotty GPS accuracy, limited data and can't export all data for external use) so I use a RaceCapture MK3. It would be nice if AMG would give us more info on CAN bus data, however ... anyone know mappings other than the standard PIDs?
Other than that, I've not seen any issues, thus far ... of course my son did give me a T-shirt that reads: "Race it. Break it. Fix it. Repeat." which may also apply to track days -- we'll see. $;-))
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1,007
From: Overland Park, KS
‘24 BMW iX M60
MG1422 has probably tracked his GTR more than anyone else on here, and that primarily at COTA which is a power, handling and brake circuit. To the best of my knowledge, and I hope Mariano pipes up soon to correct me, he has had no major issues with his car; (it has the iron brakes) since he installed the Tikt brake ducts and his track times show him to be damn fast.
Of course a car that weighs what the GTR does along with how bloody fast it is is going to use up a lot in consumables; but it's a 'Pay to Play' thing here. If you want to be fast; it's costly.
I did not in anyway sell my GTR based on what it cost to run btw. I purely miscalculated during the depths of Covid that it was a good time to sell and that I'd easily be able to pick something else up when the track season opened back up; (primarily a C8 Z06). I didn't factor in a chip shortage followed by a Russian invasion of Ukraine screwing the market so drastically.
Bottom line: if you pay attention to the brakes and can afford the tyres, the GTR is an awesome 'track' car that is going to handle a lot of abuse. Just don't forget buying track insurance as an off-track excursion will be pricey!
Of course a car that weighs what the GTR does along with how bloody fast it is is going to use up a lot in consumables; but it's a 'Pay to Play' thing here. If you want to be fast; it's costly.
I did not in anyway sell my GTR based on what it cost to run btw. I purely miscalculated during the depths of Covid that it was a good time to sell and that I'd easily be able to pick something else up when the track season opened back up; (primarily a C8 Z06). I didn't factor in a chip shortage followed by a Russian invasion of Ukraine screwing the market so drastically.
Bottom line: if you pay attention to the brakes and can afford the tyres, the GTR is an awesome 'track' car that is going to handle a lot of abuse. Just don't forget buying track insurance as an off-track excursion will be pricey!
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 737
Likes: 211
/////PRO
I think the most valuable thing we can get accomplished is talk AP Racing into making a great set up for our community of GT Platform cars!
my discussions with them fizzled out when they seemed to be satisfied only to keep supplying the AMG GT customer race platforms, and not tweak to develop for “street” cars and sell direct to public or through their US Distributor. And yes, the US Distributor once upon a time gave it the old college try for me too.
Once I experienced my good friends various Porsches and Mclarens with the AP set ups on brake abuse tracks, it was a no brainer to try.
my discussions with them fizzled out when they seemed to be satisfied only to keep supplying the AMG GT customer race platforms, and not tweak to develop for “street” cars and sell direct to public or through their US Distributor. And yes, the US Distributor once upon a time gave it the old college try for me too.
Once I experienced my good friends various Porsches and Mclarens with the AP set ups on brake abuse tracks, it was a no brainer to try.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1,007
From: Overland Park, KS
‘24 BMW iX M60
I think the most valuable thing we can get accomplished is talk AP Racing into making a great set up for our community of GT Platform cars!
my discussions with them fizzled out when they seemed to be satisfied only to keep supplying the AMG GT customer race platforms, and not tweak to develop for “street” cars and sell direct to public or through their US Distributor. And yes, the US Distributor once upon a time gave it the old college try for me too.
Once I experienced my good friends various Porsches and Mclarens with the AP set ups on brake abuse tracks, it was a no brainer to try.
my discussions with them fizzled out when they seemed to be satisfied only to keep supplying the AMG GT customer race platforms, and not tweak to develop for “street” cars and sell direct to public or through their US Distributor. And yes, the US Distributor once upon a time gave it the old college try for me too.
Once I experienced my good friends various Porsches and Mclarens with the AP set ups on brake abuse tracks, it was a no brainer to try.
I know Jeff from my old Nissan GT-R days and he’s a great guy; highly knowledgeable! If anyone has any questions about if there has been any recent developments re: an AP Racing solution to the AMG GT line, give him a call or shoot him an email.
https://www.essexparts.com
Last edited by thebishman; Apr 9, 2022 at 12:04 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 508
*
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 508
*
One has to wonder how the newer Brembo DYATOM CCB rotors will wear as compared to the current (non Black Series) CCB rotors. From the sizes given on their current site pages, it seems that the fronts would fit the GTR Pros.
